Evaluate your team

[catchbluefish]

Patriots have too many questions at receiver to be taken as a serious threat to contend for the Superbowl. Patriots defense needs Chandler Jones and Donte Hightower to step up. Pats lack of pass rush and inability to draft CB's has put the Patriots defense at the bottom of the league for five seasons.

I expect the Patriots to win a weak division and their first home playoff game... and then lose in their second round. I see an 11-5 record and no first round bye.

Now Ron, you ought to know by now that offense is not going to be a problem for the pats. Brady led the league in TD passes in 2002 with the likes of David Patten over guys like Peyton, Favre, and Warner. The pats have been one of the top offenses in the league since brady became the QB and that isn't going to change as long as brady and belichick is around.

the problem is and has been for quite some time the defense. In the past they have managed to cobble together a group that has a great deal of depth and decent talent, but very few elite playmakers. That has worked out fine in the regular season but doesn't cut it in the post season. Expecting that even brady and company is not going to stall against a playoff calibre defense occasionally is just not realistic.

They actually now have a great deal of talent on defense, at least on paper. They have not proven yet they have the playmakers to really make a difference when it counts. If they step up, the pats are going to be a better team than last year. If they don't, they aren't, simple as that. And god's honest truth, I have no idea how its all going to turn out

 

[cdumler7]

Now Ron, you ought to know by now that offense is not going to be a problem for the pats. Brady led the league in TD passes in 2002 with the likes of David Patten over guys like Peyton, Favre, and Warner. The pats have been one of the top offenses in the league since brady became the QB and that isn't going to change as long as brady and belichick is around.

the problem is and has been for quite some time the defense. In the past they have managed to cobble together a group that has a great deal of depth and decent talent, but very few elite playmakers. That has worked out fine in the regular season but doesn't cut it in the post season. Expecting that even brady and company is not going to stall against a playoff calibre defense occasionally is just not realistic.

They actually now have a great deal of talent on defense, at least on paper. They have not proven yet they have the playmakers to really make a difference when it counts. If they step up, the pats are going to be a better team than last year. If they don't, they aren't, simple as that. And god's honest truth, I have no idea how its all going to turn out

You might want to recheck your stats as they have not always been one of the top offenses since Brady entered into the league. Heck they have been all the way down at 21st in the league with Tom Brady starting back in 2002. 17th the year after that. They have been out of the top 10 in total offense 3 or 4 times in his time in the NFL.

 

[catchbluefish]

You might want to recheck your stats as they have not always been one of the top offenses since Brady entered into the league. Heck they have been all the way down at 21st in the league with Tom Brady starting back in 2002. 17th the year after that. They have been out of the top 10 in total offense 3 or 4 times in his time in the NFL.

This is the pats pass offense rankings prior to 2007:

2002 12th
2003 9th
2004 11th
2005 2nd
2006 12th

Now you tell me all the fabulous weapons brady had in any of those years to throw to. He even managed to throw the most TD's in the league in 2002, more than favre, peyton or warner that year. Given that whoever he has to throw to this year is clearly superior to anyone of the guys he was throwing to those years and the running backs are clearly much more talented and a much deeper pool than any of those years.

I feel pretty comfortable with my post and that offense is not going to be the pats problem this year if they do have a problem

 

[cdumler7]

This is the pats pass offense rankings prior to 2007:

2002 12th
2003 9th
2004 11th
2005 2nd
2006 12th

Now you tell me all the fabulous weapons brady had in any of those years to throw to. He even managed to throw the most TD's in the league in 2002, more than favre, peyton or warner that year. Given that whoever he has to throw to this year is clearly superior to anyone of the guys he was throwing to those years and the running backs are clearly much more talented and a much deeper pool than any of those years.

I feel pretty comfortable with my post and that offense is not going to be the pats problem this year if they do have a problem

I didn't say they won't have a good offense as I still expect them to be top 5. I think the Saints, Falcons, Broncos, Seahawks, and maybe Texans will give them a run for that top spot but they will be right in the mix for sure. More I was just pointing out that since Brady has entered into the league they have not always had a top offense. Now some of that I'm sure was that he was still young and learning but the point being he did not come into the league and light it up right off the bat. Yes he did lead the league in touchdowns in 2002 but then the very next year he was barely top 10 so like all quarterbacks it takes time to develop into the legend that he is today.

 

[TDs3nOut]

2002 Pats were 21st in yards and 12th in points. Either way, the Pats offense this year will be awesome. LaGarrete Blounte = SB.

 

[TDs3nOut]

LaGarrete Blounte = SB.

Just kidding about that, of course, but ever since the Pats signed Blounte I've thought that was very interesting. Pats have some really good, versatile backs, and versatility, which NE generally values, isn't among Blount's strength. Still, I do think that he could be very productive if used correctly.

I actually recall starting a thread about NE signing Blount. I don't remember much enthusiasm among Pats fans about getting Blount. In fact, some predicted that he won't even make the roster.

 

[catchbluefish]

I never tried to argue that brady, or anyone else for that matter, didn't need time to develop into the guy he has become later in their career. I was merely pointing out that the pats passing attack has been consistently one of the better ones in the nfl since brady took over and, despite the learning curve he had to go through like every one else had had to do in the history of the league, and despite the, in general, mediocre group they put around him during the first part of his career.

Given that we both agree that the offense will not be a problem, I was merely pointing out that people that don't like the pats are right about one thing: the pats have not won a SB in 8 years because the defense has been the primary problem. But it was a big part of the problem for Favre, it has plagued peyton for years and young aaron is now getting a taste of it. Brady has a lot of company in that regard.

I think montana is the greatest QB in the modern era, but I also know something that a lot of people seem to conveniently forget; the years he won his SB's if san fran did not have the best defense in the nfl, it wasn't far off

 

[KwitYerWhinin]

Just kidding about that, of course, but ever since the Pats signed Blounte I've thought that was very interesting. Pats have some really good, versatile backs, and versatility, which NE generally values, isn't among Blount's strength. Still, I do think that he could be very productive if used correctly.

I actually recall starting a thread about NE signing Blount. I don't remember much enthusiasm among Pats fans about getting Blount. In fact, some predicted that he won't even make the roster.

I'm pretty sure BB picked him up for his ability to beat up opposing players and fans on the sidelines.

 

[KwitYerWhinin]

I never tried to argue that brady, or anyone else for that matter, didn't need time to develop into the guy he has become later in their career. I was merely pointing out that the pats passing attack has been consistently one of the better ones in the nfl since brady took over and, despite the learning curve he had to go through like every one else had had to do in the history of the league, and despite the, in general, mediocre group they put around him during the first part of his career.

Given that we both agree that the offense will not be a problem, I was merely pointing out that people that don't like the pats are right about one thing: the pats have not won a SB in 8 years because the defense has been the primary problem. But it was a big part of the problem for Favre, it has plagued peyton for years and young aaron is now getting a taste of it. Brady has a lot of company in that regard.

I think montana is the greatest QB in the modern era, but I also know something that a lot of people seem to conveniently forget; the years he won his SB's if san fran did not have the best defense in the nfl, it wasn't far off

I think people in general agree that the pats offense, while not likely being the absolute best, will be good enough. the problem being that the defense will very likely not be.

 

[TDs3nOut]

I'm pretty sure BB picked him up for his ability to beat up opposing players and fans on the sidelines.

At the risk of getting off topic, and since you brought it up, I always thought that Blount took a bit too much heat for that incident. The BSU player shares some responsibility for the severity of that blow, since a guy who gets up in another player's face the way that he got up in Blount's face after the game is well advised to keep his head on a swivel.

 

[KwitYerWhinin]

At the risk of getting off topic, and since you brought it up, I always thought that Blount took a bit too much heat for that incident. The BSU player shares some responsibility for the severity of that blow, since a guy who gets up in another player's face the way that he got up in Blount's face after the game is well advised to keep his head on a swivel.

all good points...in the end, it was still Blount that suffered from the situation. and has continued to show the fiery temper that got him into that situation.

 

[catchbluefish]

I think people in general agree that the pats offense, while not likely being the absolute best, will be good enough. the problem being that the defense will very likely not be.

Well you seem pretty sure the defense is going to be a problem, I am not in anyway sure. It certainly has been the primary problem in the past and I am not going to say they aren't going to be the problem this year until I see more, but the pats have added a lot of talent and depth on defense over the last couple of years. Is that potential going to develop into serious playmakers? I need to see more to decide one way or another.

And as a broncos fan, I wouldn't be so smug about your defense. Doom might not have been a complete player, but losing that pass rushing ability, and the way it happened, was not a positive thing. and it looks like Miller may not be around for a good chunk of the season; you might even see gronk back before you see him. Champ is another year older and jammer is not that much younger. Maybe cromarte will return to form....maybe not. Your db corps could turn out to be one of the better ones in the league....or maybe not very good at all. No one is going to be taken by surprise by denver this year; every opponent that plays your team is going to mark it as one of the biggest if not the biggest game on their schedule. Welcome to a pats fan's world.

Pre season is the time of dreaming of lombardi's....and then the reality of the regular season sets in.

 

[noonthirtyjoe]

Great read everyone. Thanks for the posts!!




I think my Pack is the favorite because the offense is going to score. But I hate to admit, your Vikes have the defense, and that matters. Detroit at 3. Bears bring up the rear.

LOL Bears are winning the div. Best Def and now some offense. Chi GB MN Det in that order.

 

[TDs3nOut]

No one is going to be taken by surprise by denver this year; every opponent that plays your team is going to mark it as one of the biggest if not the biggest game on their schedule.

Pre season is the time of dreaming of lombardi's....and then the reality of the regular season sets in.

But I thought that the artifact of Denver's season last year was its cupcake schedule, not that it consistently surprised teams.

 

[catchbluefish]

LOL Bears are winning the div. Best Def and now some offense. Chi GB MN Det in that order.

Really not trying to be a jerk but.....isn't that pretty much what bears fans were saying in the preseason last year? I am actually serious; I think it was pretty much word for word.

 

[catchbluefish]

But I thought that the artifact of Denver's season last year was its cupcake schedule, not that it consistently surprised teams.

I never argued that denver's schedule was primary reason for their success, but no one can argue that they benefit from being in the weakest division in the nfl; just as the pats benefit from being in the second weakest division in the nfl (although that doesn't mean either is going to be true this year).

But the broncos are now clearly considered to be the "best" team in the AFC and if you don't think that is going to have an effect on opposing teams getting up to play against them you are crazy.

 

[TDs3nOut]

I never argued that denver's schedule was primary reason for their success, but no one can argue that they benefit from being in the weakest division in the nfl; just as the pats benefit from being in the second weakest division in the nfl (although that doesn't mean either is going to be true this year).

But the broncos are now clearly considered to be the "best" team in the AFC and if you don't think that is going to have an effect on opposing teams getting up to play against them you are crazy.

Sure teams want to beat other teams that are expected to be good. I'm familiar with that. Denver has also been expected to win in the past, you know?

Personally, I suspect that how the Broncos own players respond to the "expectation of being the AFC's best" is more important than how their opponents respond to that.

 

[JDM]

Tebow is when the broncos took people by surprise. With manning as their QB they were no surprise last year.

And yes, catching people off guard does happen.

 

[cdumler7]

I never argued that denver's schedule was primary reason for their success, but no one can argue that they benefit from being in the weakest division in the nfl; just as the pats benefit from being in the second weakest division in the nfl (although that doesn't mean either is going to be true this year).

But the broncos are now clearly considered to be the "best" team in the AFC and if you don't think that is going to have an effect on opposing teams getting up to play against them you are crazy.

Teams last year kept hearing throughout the week about Peyton this and Peyton that so I'm guessing many had plenty of reason to get ready to play the Broncos. Yes there might be a bigger bulls eye on the Broncos' back this year but with the king himself of being prepared for games at the helm my guess is they will be just fine. From all accounts so far practice has been more crisp than last year and Peyton is doing even better with the timing of his receivers. Defensively they should be fine considering this is the first time year almost 10 years the Broncos have had the same Defensive Coordinator for a 2nd year. I wouldn't worry too much about the Broncos this season as like you said they are in a pretty weak division so they should win then once playoffs role around everybody has a bulls eye on their back. Then it is anybody's game.

 

[catchbluefish]

" Denver has also been expected to win in the past, you know?"

Denver making the playoffs with tebow 2 years ago came as a shock to just about everyone and, while denver fans might have been very optimistic when peyton signed on and any rational person would agree he was a massive upgrade, not too many people outside of the denver fanbase saw denver as the darling of the AFC. If you are talking about prior to 1999 I agree.

I actually agree with you how the broncos players respond to opponents getting up for them is more important than anything, but that doesn't always have a happy ending