doubt

[Illinest]

You can't really talk about it all that much because anyone who blames a losing season on 'not believing in yourself' is generally (and rightfully) looked upon as a loon. That's not to say that I don't think about it from time to time. I look back at the 2003 season and I see all of the great performances in the field - and I know that the relief pitchers really screwed us over that year but all the same I don't think I ever got a sense that the players were playing for anything but a paycheck.

Then last year when we were 7 games over .500 I still had doubt - but more importantly I felt like the team still had doubt. I wasn't surprised when we collapsed. I think that we deserved a collapse but I also believe that to some of the players it was almost a relief to finally be able to wallow in it. Doubt that is.

This years' team is better. Burnett alone makes us a lot better than I ever expected. That's not to say that I expected him to fail - I didn't - but I didn't expect him to succeed this much. McCutchen - I'm pretty certain he doesn't doubt himself. Same with Walker to a lesser extent, and I think that Jones and Alvarez have been afforded opportunities to grow into their roles.

But McDonald - we jiggered the rotation around the All-star break to get him on HIS schedule and wouldn't you know it - that's when he fell apart. I think McDonald succumbed to doubt.
I would've said that Jeff Karstens was immune but I think that he has been letting the pressure get to him a little bit as well.
Even McCutchen - earlier in the week he tweeted something that seemed uncharacteristically concerned.

But last night the Pirates got their backs against the wall with Burnett on the mound. A game that I didn't have the pleasure of watching but I understand that the Pirates were down early, there were arguments and ejections and a Hanley Ramirez taunt - first Hanley taunting Burnett after a homerun and then Burnett taunting Hanley after a return strikeout the next time they faced each other. The Pirates won that game and then today James McDonald pitched his finest game in weeks.

So with our backs against the wall are we responding at last? I remember the Jerry Meals game and it seemed like the straw that broke the camels' back. We were deflated by it and defeated by it. This year AJ Burnett bore down and screamed at Hanley Ramirez and then we won.


See - I do think that doubt is the last enemy that a losing team needs to defeat. Winning teams don't bother with doubt - they've got confidence instead. We are stuck with doubt.
I think the only way for a modestly talented team to slay doubt is with desperation. I think you need to be asking yourself - have the Pirates reached the point of desperation yet?

 

[pixburgher66]

I feel like fans, myself often included, are just waiting for the collapse. Personally I've known nothing but failure and collapse. I'm 21, it's just Pirate baseball in my lifetime. Losing, disappointment, zero expectations, and then last year. I don't think I expected the monumental collapse of last year, but I knew when we had first for a moment, and were over .500, that I had to savor it. I knew it wasn't going to last. However, I do believe that last year allowed me to approach the Pirates in a more positive light. It was hope. Even if only for half the year, it allowed hope to light within. However, the whole 19 seasons before 2011-12 have certainly made me feel hesitant at the least about the past 2 weeks. I just can't shake it.

There's a battle going on amongst Pirate fans (at least on twitter). There's those who are full blown doomsday-ers, there's cynical "I saw it coming"s, there's "you're not a fan if you doubt your team ever"s, and there's the "I love this team, but I'm frustrated/worried"s.

Personally I'm the last of those. I love them, but any educated fan can't be happy with the little streak we just had. And anyone who watched the team the past 20 seasons would have every reason to feel alarmed. I'm most encouraged by the past two games by the Pirates comeback ability in innings after the opponent scores (LA game) and JMac performing. Those are key.

 

[thedddd]

To be honest I will have doubt. Like most of you who grew up watching them lose in the 80's, then the Slide that ended all hope in the early 90's until today it is hard to have anything but doubt.

But that being said this team you do feel as if they have that leadership with a Burnett that will get them over the hump. It is nice to see that this year and what they lacked dearly last season.

 

[Forty_Sixand2]

FTC hits another HR!

Free Tank Carter Advisory Board: A.J. Burnett cordially invites you

 

[magnumo]

Love that thought-provoking OP, Illinest..... as well as Pixburgher66's reply.

So relevant right now, at least for me. "Doubt" is the operative word. From personal experience, I can confirm your thoughts about the players needing to overcome doubt and build confidence.

On the other hand, a fan must lose the doubt and build confidence vicariously..... by watching rather than playing the game. As such, I find myself in the same camp as Pixburgher66.

I'd love to see a bit of expansion on your notion of "desperation." How would that desperation manifest for the team and players in the current Pirate situation?

 

[pixburgher66]

FTC hits another HR!

Free Tank Carter Advisory Board: A.J. Burnett cordially invites you

I like what he says, but he has an insanely pessimistic view about the Pirates future. Especially the bats. There are prospects worth looking at down there. Are they in AAA? No. But keep in mind a guy like Snider is continuing to develop.

 

[Forty_Sixand2]

I like what he says, but he has an insanely pessimistic view about the Pirates future. Especially the bats. There are prospects worth looking at down there. Are they in AAA? No. But keep in mind a guy like Snider is continuing to develop.

They are statisticians. They are Pirates fans.

Combine those two things and tell me how you can't be pessimistic, .

 

[pixburgher66]

They are statisticians. They are Pirates fans.

Combine those two things and tell me how you can't be pessimistic, .

Yeah, statisticians are often proved wrong in sport though. Although I do think baseball is the sport which stats prove the most relevant.

 

[Forty_Sixand2]

Yeah, statisticians are often proved wrong in sport though. Although I do think baseball is the sport which stats prove the most relevant.

There is an obvious reason for this. Do you know it, science nerd?

 

[pixburgher66]

There is an obvious reason for this. Do you know it, science nerd?

I imagine it's because they play the most games? Allows for the stats to hold greater meaning?

 

[Forty_Sixand2]

 

[sychmd]

There is an obvious reason for this. Do you know it, science nerd?

1. sample size in baseball. 162 vs 80 vs 16 in other sports.

2. baseball is also the sport that science, namely physics most, is the least diluted as far as determining performance and outcomes.

3. baseball requires the least team chemistry and dependence of the 4 major sports. Each interaction is really man vs physics to effect an outcome and doesnt rely on many teammates for help or synergy.

 

[thedddd]

Love that thought-provoking OP, Illinest..... as well as Pixburgher66's reply.

So relevant right now, at least for me. "Doubt" is the operative word. From personal experience, I can confirm your thoughts about the players needing to overcome doubt and build confidence.

On the other hand, a fan must lose the doubt and build confidence vicariously..... by watching rather than playing the game. As such, I find myself in the same camp as Pixburgher66.

I'd love to see a bit of expansion on your notion of "desperation." How would that desperation manifest for the team and players in the current Pirate situation?

I think the folks who all think the worst is going to happen are like the Randy Quaid character in Major League.


We all have Doubt (and being a Pirate fan if you don't, I honestly don't believe you) but expecting the worst to happen is totally wrong also.

Watching the worst and a small taste of success I think as a fan of this team we all are desperate for a winning team.