Game Thread: Dolphins @ Redskins (week 1)

[Breed]

Frustrating day today. There was some good and some bad and to lose on a pt ret......................ggrrrrrrr

Still, I'm hopeful for this season.

 

[Breed]

thanks for the credit of "stumbling" and "inadvertently" stating the truth. It's amazing that the rest of us can even carry on a half way intelligent conversation. This must be challenging for you as you constantly have to keep enlightening the rest of us. But I'm curious. How do you know some of those around him didn't try and act in a responsible manner, as you put it? I agree that they didn't succeed, but I have no insight that the shanahans and gruden and others haven't tried with this prima Donna. How do you have this insight?

I don't really know the entirety of your conversation with Stymie presently. I do see y'all are discussing who's fault is the failure of RG3. Like you, I place the onus of blame on Griffin himself. And as much as I'm loathe to do this because I usually view it as a cop out. Daniel Snyder must also take some share of credit far as Griffin's failure goes.

I don't know how it transpired or who did what, but somehow Griffin was given keys to the kingdom status and only one man, Snyder, is capable of bestowing, or in this case, cursing the receiver of those keys. Whether that curse is intentional or not and I'm sure it wasn't that's what happened imo. Given Griffin's already sizable ego and hard-headedness, upon receiving the keys. Any hope of teaching Griffin another way of QBing other than what he knew was crushed. Plus it empowered Griffin, at least imo, to publicly dismiss and/or speak against his HC as well as strengthened his false belief that he himself was the team.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

I don't really know the entirety of your conversation with Stymie presently. I do see y'all are discussing who's fault is the failure of RG3. Like you, I place the onus of blame on Griffin himself. And as much as I'm loathe to do this because I usually view it as a cop out. Daniel Snyder must also take some share of credit far as Griffin's failure goes.

I don't know how it transpired or who did what, but somehow Griffin was given keys to the kingdom status and only one man, Snyder, is capable of bestowing, or in this case, cursing the receiver of those keys. Whether that curse is intentional or not and I'm sure it wasn't that's what happened imo. Given Griffin's already sizable ego and hard-headedness, upon receiving the keys. Any hope of teaching Griffin another way of QBing other than what he knew was crushed. Plus it empowered Griffin, at least imo, to publicly dismiss and/or speak against his HC as well as strengthened his false belief that he himself was the team.

Bingo.

 

[j_y19]

I don't really know the entirety of your conversation with Stymie presently. I do see y'all are discussing who's fault is the failure of RG3. Like you, I place the onus of blame on Griffin himself. And as much as I'm loathe to do this because I usually view it as a cop out. Daniel Snyder must also take some share of credit far as Griffin's failure goes.

I don't know how it transpired or who did what, but somehow Griffin was given keys to the kingdom status and only one man, Snyder, is capable of bestowing, or in this case, cursing the receiver of those keys. Whether that curse is intentional or not and I'm sure it wasn't that's what happened imo. Given Griffin's already sizable ego and hard-headedness, upon receiving the keys. Any hope of teaching Griffin another way of QBing other than what he knew was crushed. Plus it empowered Griffin, at least imo, to publicly dismiss and/or speak against his HC as well as strengthened his false belief that he himself was the team.

I pretty much agree. There is blame to go all around, but at the end of the day, RG3 is responsible for himself and his performance. He was enabled by Snyder, the media, and we, the fans, but he is a grown man and needs to accept full responsibility for his actions and performance. He is now in his 4th year. FOUR YEARS. And he is no closer to being proficient in the pocket than he was his first year. Those that want to continue to make excuses for him by placing the blame on others are just continuing to enable him.

 

[Stymietee]

thanks for the credit of "stumbling" and "inadvertently" stating the truth. It's amazing that the rest of us can even carry on a half way intelligent conversation. This must be challenging for you as you constantly have to keep enlightening the rest of us. But I'm curious. How do you know some of those around him didn't try and act in a responsible manner, as you put it? I agree that they didn't succeed, but I have no insight that the shanahans and gruden and others haven't tried with this prima Donna. How do you have this insight?

Easy answer....traditionally the young gun, no matter how high he was drafted or what accolades followed him SAT and learned. Sitting him would have done two things, tempered that ego a bit and given him time to either perfect his craft or continue to sit. I know that it is popular to insert the young gun immediately, but as time goes on, there will come others with talent but not the wherewithal to operate in a traditional/ pro style offense either the teams in the NFL adjust their offensive philosophies or the players will have to learn to play in NFL pro style/traditional offenses. How do I know that they didn't try?......well.......outside of injury he never sat. It is interesting that he is now, what he should have been at the beginning of his career inactive!

I suppose there are some who still cling to the notion that you don't invest as much as the organization did to get him and sit him. Absolutely wrong!!! It is because you've invested so much that he sits and learns. Doing anything less like playing him right away diminishes maximum return on investment because he's not properly prepared. While sitting and training him is no guarantee of success, it does assure one thing, failure won't be the result of poor mechanics, inability to read defenses, or discomfort in the pocket.

 

[Stymietee]

BTW: since you've asked, it is often extremely difficult to be the smartest guy in the room

 

[j_y19]

Easy answer....traditionally the young gun, no matter how high he was drafted or what accolades followed him SAT and learned. Sitting him would have done two things, tempered that ego a bit and given him time to either perfect his craft or continue to sit. I know that it is popular to insert the young gun immediately, but as time goes on, there will come others with talent but not the wherewithal to operate in a traditional/ pro style offense either the teams in the NFL adjust their offensive philosophies or the players will have to learn to play in NFL pro style/traditional offenses. How do I know that they didn't try?......well.......outside of injury he never sat. It is interesting that he is now, what he should have been at the beginning of his career inactive!

I suppose there are some who still cling to the notion that you don't invest as much as the organization did to get him and sit him. Absolutely wrong!!! It is because you've invested so much that he sits and learns. Doing anything less like playing him right away diminishes maximum return on investment because he's not properly prepared. While sitting and training him is no guarantee of success, it does assure one thing, failure won't be the result of poor mechanics, inability to read defenses, or discomfort in the pocket.

I think most take exception to your use of traditionally. I guess if you go far enough back, that may be true, but in the last 20 years, traditionally, high draft pick QBs start either immediately or within that first year sometime. Many QBs learn and go onto good careers, many fail. The question is of those that fail, how many were destined to fail no matter when they played? I beleive RG3 is one of those for reasons I have stated so often I'm sick of hearing them.

 

[j_y19]

BTW: since you've asked, it is often extremely difficult to be the smartest guy in the room

It's an onus you bear well

 

[Stymietee]

I think most take exception to your use of traditionally. I guess if you go far enough back, that may be true, but in the last 20 years, traditionally, high draft pick QBs start either immediately or within that first year sometime. Many QBs learn and go onto good careers, many fail. The question is of those that fail, how many were destined to fail no matter when they played? I beleive RG3 is one of those for reasons I have stated so often I'm sick of hearing them.

I go back much farther than that, although there were many during that span who also sat. You may very well be correct in your assumption that RG3 was destined to fail, I said as much in my previous response, however I also said that given proper training his failure would not be attributed to his current inabilities. Very good conversation, they say that reasonable men often have them. Thanks!!!

 

[papaskin]

BTW: since you've asked, it is often extremely difficult to be the smartest guy in the room

In a former life were you MBuzzell on pre-KFFL Mouthoff ?

 

[Stymietee]

In a former life were you MBuzzell on pre-KFFL Mouthoff ?

NO!!

 

[Sportster 72]

I always supported your stance at the time of that draft, to not pay that price for Griffin, didn't completely agree with it, but you had a right to state your opposition. Yours was the lone voice against it, but once done, the question to me was how best to develop the guy. There were two choices, Washington selected the wrong one. (see results). Interesting that you picked out the team name and supporters of the player (Griffin) as reasons, but may have? (I dunno) missed the intent of the article.........Dysfunction fatigue!

I
Shark wasn't the only one against the trade. I was blewcrabb on the old network. Shark and I were both dead against the trade. I got told I was less than smart essentially for saying if you give up that much for one guy he better be perennial top 5 and minimum of one Super Bowl ring.

I said Griffin was a one year wonder and was told I didn't watch enough football.

All that being said the trade was made, it doesn't matter now. Of more concern for me is hearing today the Redskins are third wealthiest team in the league. Why doe Dan have to improve the product? His making money like he had his printing press. He is getting paid no matter how bad this team is. I already knew that but I got a reminder today and it made me sad because it means more than likely nothing will change.

 

[Stymietee]

I
Shark wasn't the only one against the trade. I was blewcrabb on the old network. Shark and I were both dead against the trade. I got told I was less than smart essentSnyder saying if you give up that much for one guy he better be perennial top 5 and minimum of one Super Bowl ring.

I said Griffin was a one year wonder and was told I didn't watch enough football.

All that being said the trade was made, it doesn't matter now. Of more concern for me is hearing today the Redskins are third wealthiest team in the league. Why doe Dan have to improve the product? His making money like he had his printing press. He is getting paid no matter how bad this team is. I already knew that but I got a reminder today and it made me sad because it means more than likely nothing will change.

My appologies Sportster and for anyone reading this who had previously taken that position I stand corrected. Sad to think that the vision and organizational foundation has to come from some basic standard within Dan Snyder. Unfortunately for us that might be asking too much, seeing that there is so much support for what he's currently doing.

There are small cracks beginning to show however........smaller turnouts at the Richmond camp this year and although money is money, did you happen to notice that sizeable Miami contingent at the game? On opening day no less!

 

[Sportster 72]

Apologies not necessary. Different color jerseys have been prominent for years now. Dan has been ripping out seats but the money keeps rolling in. Funny thing is Dan is willing to spend money, at least on players and coaches. What he refuses to do is hire football and let them run that department of the business for him. He also can't help himself from meddling. He want to hang with his "stars."

 

[j_y19]

Apologies not necessary. Different color jerseys have been prominent for years now. Dan has been ripping out seats but the money keeps rolling in. Funny thing is Dan is willing to spend money, at least on players and coaches. What he refuses to do is hire football and let them run that department of the business for him. He also can't help himself from meddling. He want to hang with his "stars."

Talk about the elephant in the room. As we beat each other up over RG3 or Gruden or Forbath, these are all just symptoms of the real problem. Snyder. He is making it very difficult to be a fan. It irks me to no end that this guy continues to produce a shit for a product and yet he is making money hand over fist. But I do agree that cracks are developing. ticket sales are down and I have to believe that the fan base is dwindling. You, I, sty, Dad, shark and a few others have been fans for 30+ years. We are committed (or should be....) but the younger generation of fans have never seen a real winner. They have begun to leave. Unfortunately the financial hit may not be noticeable for a few years yet. Which means snyder will not be changing his ways anytime soon.

 

[Sharkinva]

Talk about the elephant in the room. As we beat each other up over RG3 or Gruden or Forbath, these are all just symptoms of the real problem. Snyder. He is making it very difficult to be a fan. It irks me to no end that this guy continues to produce a shit for a product and yet he is making money hand over fist. But I do agree that cracks are developing. ticket sales are down and I have to believe that the fan base is dwindling. You, I, sty, Dad, shark and a few others have been fans for 30+ years. We are committed (or should be....) but the younger generation of fans have never seen a real winner. They have begun to leave. Unfortunately the financial hit may not be noticeable for a few years yet. Which means snyder will not be changing his ways anytime soon.

The real shitty part about this is, if ticket sales really start to affect Dans bottom line, I think THAT would prompt him to move the team rather than fix the product.

 

[Stymietee]

The real shitty part about this is, if ticket sales really start to affect Dans bottom line, I think THAT would prompt him to move the team rather than fix the product.

I just made the same comment on the Kai Forbath thread.

 

[Sportster 72]

Yeah I hear you but these guys are making more money than ever. TV money. They could care less about us. Bad owners like Bidwell and Brown are still around. Tampa might have the lowest fan base of anyone but they just keep rolling along. We'll see though. Fan bases are changing, they aren't all folks like us who have been rooting for a team for 50 years.

 

[j_y19]

Yeah I hear you but these guys are making more money than ever. TV money. They could care less about us. Bad owners like Bidwell and Brown are still around. Tampa might have the lowest fan base of anyone but they just keep rolling along. We'll see though. Fan bases are changing, they aren't all folks like us who have been rooting for a team for 50 years.

Yeah, ticket sales are a minor part of their revenue anymore. Its TV revenue, mechandise, etc where they make their money.

 

[Sportster 72]

You guys know what my hope is now? We get lucky one year like we almost did in 2012. We screw up and win a Super Bowl. I am not expecting any long term success with Dan as owner.