Dilemma

[Tubbs1518]

Yes but those were all young guys yet to hit the prime of their careers not 32 year old QB's with injury history and a few subpar years in a row. Plus the Arizona trade was batshit crazy too.

 

[cravnravn]

We've been saying that about Flacco since he was drafted, but you seem to think he's a top flight QB. Unless you've finally come down to earth.

He is a top flite QB, not even Manning or Brady can say they went to the playoffs 4 straight years in the league.

 

[Servo]

I don't think it was that "batshit" crazy.

*Arizona Cardinals trade for (backup QB) Kevin Kolb:
Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie (you can assess his worth) and a second-round pick in 2012.

*Bears Trade For Jay Cutler (2009):
Kyle Orton, 2009 first-round pick, 2010 first-round pick, 2009 third-round pick. (Chicago also received a fifth-round pick)

*Texans Trade For (backup QB) Matt Schaub (2007)
2007 2nd round pick, 2008 2nd round pick, and Atlanta and Houston swapped 2007 1st round picks (Atlanta received the 8th pick while Houston moved back to 10th)

QBs are a hot commodity. Depending on the circumstances of a team, many times they go for a hefty price. A trade for a 1st rounder and 2nd rounder is right within the ballpark of the above.

I'd say the only trade that would be comparable is the Cutler trade, and if memory serves me correctly cutler just came off a huge season and was still young. Yes, he's been a dissapointment in Chicago but going in he looked like he was poised to join the elite ranks. Carson is older than cutler. He's had a history of injuries. His play has clearly regressed (sharply over the past few years)...then there are questions of character/passion due to how he handled himself during the offseason (you may disagree with them but many view him as a 'quitter'). We'll see how it plays out but yeah, I think it was a desperate move by Oak and they got taken. 1st and at least a 2nd for Carson is batshit crazy. If I was an Oak fan i'd be livid.

 

[TrinDaddy]

He is a top flite QB, not even Manning or Brady can say they went to the playoffs 4 straight years in the league.

lol wut? Do you mean Eli Manning and Marsha Brady? Or do you mean starting from their rookie years?

 

[TrinDaddy]

I don't think it was that "batshit" crazy.

*Arizona Cardinals trade for (backup QB) Kevin Kolb:
Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie (you can assess his worth) and a second-round pick in 2012.

*Bears Trade For Jay Cutler (2009):
Kyle Orton, 2009 first-round pick, 2010 first-round pick, 2009 third-round pick. (Chicago also received a fifth-round pick)

*Texans Trade For (backup QB) Matt Schaub (2007)
2007 2nd round pick, 2008 2nd round pick, and Atlanta and Houston swapped 2007 1st round picks (Atlanta received the 8th pick while Houston moved back to 10th)

QBs are a hot commodity. Depending on the circumstances of a team, many times they go for a hefty price. A trade for a 1st rounder and 2nd rounder is right within the ballpark of the above.

And none of those guys are 30+ year old's with two major injuries and down numbers for multiple years refusing to play out a contract. It's not crazy if you're purely talking about the base trade value of other QB's, but I think it's a little silly to leave out the underlying issues. Not to mention, as pointed out, draft picks have more bang for the buck now that the rookie scale is in place, which it wasn't for all of the other trades.

 

[TrinDaddy]

I'd say the only trade that would be comparable is the Cutler trade, and if memory serves me correctly cutler just came off a huge season and was still young. Yes, he's been a dissapointment in Chicago but going in he looked like he was poised to join the elite ranks. Carson is older than cutler. He's had a history of injuries. His play has clearly regressed (sharply over the past few years)...then there are questions of character/passion due to how he handled himself during the offseason (you may disagree with them but many view him as a 'quitter'). We'll see how it plays out but yeah, I think it was a desperate move by Oak and they got taken. 1st and at least a 2nd for Carson is batshit crazy. If I was an Oak fan i'd be livid.

I work with a Raiders fan. I think livid is a good adjective to describe his feelings when I asked him how he felt.

 

[flamingrey]

I'd say the only trade that would be comparable is the Cutler trade, and if memory serves me correctly cutler just came off a huge season and was still young. Yes, he's been a dissapointment in Chicago but going in he looked like he was poised to join the elite ranks. Carson is older than cutler. He's had a history of injuries. His play has clearly regressed (sharply over the past few years)...then there are questions of character/passion due to how he handled himself during the offseason (you may disagree with them but many view him as a 'quitter'). We'll see how it plays out but yeah, I think it was a desperate move by Oak and they got taken. 1st and at least a 2nd for Carson is batshit crazy. If I was an Oak fan i'd be livid.

I was speaking to the general going rate for a good QB. Carson is only 31, passed his prime sure, but not old by any standards for a QB. While I agree those other trades were much different in the fact that each was at least 3 years younger, but what Oakland has going for them is Carson has proven much more in the league than those guys ever had at the time of each respective trade. It's all give and take. Oakland's situation is much different than those other teams' as well. Oakland has been looking for their QB for years and now feel like they're at the point where they've built their solid foundation through the draft, now it's time to put it all together with a franchise QB.

Now, we could sit here and argue ad nauseum how much Carson has or hasn't regressed since 2005, but there isn't an analyst out there that isn't leaving open the plausibility that he does come back to form, for obvious reasons that don't need to be explained (Bengals, etc.). For some reason Bengals fans have quit acknowledging the other plethora possible causes for Carson's "regression".

Again, the whole character/passion thing fits in the same category as the above. It's a matter of opinion, not fact. Some think he's a quitter, others think it shows how much passion he truly has to rather retire than play for an organization that has been the laughing stock of the league for 2 decades.

In conclusion, the difference between the 4 guys mentioned is their question marks are all different and the teams that traded for them, their situations are all different. Those 4 guys mentioned had their youth and potential going for them, and Palmer has his experience and his (limited) "success" going for him.

For the people that believe he can come back to form and they like his passion (Oakland's organization and fans apparently, and Seattle and SF that also in the past made significant offers), this trade is a no-brainer and fits in with the value of other QBs.

 

[flamingrey]

He is a top flite QB, not even Manning or Brady can say they went to the playoffs 4 straight years in the league.

Case in point.

 

[DanBengalfan]

Palmer will be above average if he gets good pass blocking. and How freaking hard is it to hand the ball off to D-Mac?