David Ortiz and the Stratosphere

[steveringo]

I am trying to decide if Big Papi has just launched himself into the Red Sox stratosphere… The guy is chugging along in this messy series (and when I say chugging, I mean like a crazy old 10,000 pound steam engine rolling at full tilt – to the tune of a .727 BA, .750 OBP, 1.364 SLG. Yes, SLG. Yes, that is a 2.114 OPS)… But it appears to have been his impromptu motivational speech to the entire dugout that lit a fire on the team last night.

He’s already climbing the all-time Sox players list. I think his knack for timely hitting already has him in the top ten… If they go on to win this series, I might squeeze him into the top five…

And that includes
Ted Williams
Roger Clemens
Tris Speaker
Babe Ruth
Cy Young
Carl Yastrzemski
Jim Rice
Pedro Martinez
Nomar Garciaparra
Jimmie Foxx
Wade Boggs
Joe Wood
Dwight Evans
Luis Tiant
Bobby Doerr

 

[MilkSpiller22]

was babe ruth really an all time great red sox player??

Was manny ramirez really not an all time great red sox player??

 

[navamind]

Ramirez and Reggie Smith aren't all-time Sox greats?

He *might* be top 10 among Sox players, but that's it. Even if he has a few more 2013-esque years, I don't think he's better than Clemens/Pedro/Williams/Yaz/Boggs/Young. Wouldn't put him ahead of Speaker and I'm not too sure about Evans (he was a very good player for a long time).

 

[steveringo]

was babe ruth really an all time great red sox player??

Was manny ramirez really not an all time great red sox player??

Ramirez and Reggie Smith aren't all-time Sox greats?

I didn't mean to imply the list is all-inclusive. I just rattled off the first names that popped into my head.... I'd absolutely include Manny and probably Smith (since I incuded Garciaparra and they both spent about the same time with Boston)... And, people are always surprised that Babe Ruth spent six years pitching in Boston and is included in a ton of their all time pitching stats...

The question is where does David Ortiz fit in?

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Babe ruth is not an all time great for the red sox... so i would put Ortiz above Ruth and Below Manny... someplace between those 2... but that is a wide gap...

 

[steveringo]

Babe ruth is not an all time great for the red sox... so i would put Ortiz above Ruth and Below Manny... someplace between those 2... but that is a wide gap...

Not to derail the thread, but from 1914 to 1919, Ruth was 89-46 with a 2.19 ERA. Those rate stats are 5th among Sox pitchers.... They converted him to OF in 1919 and he led the league in R, HR & RBI and lead with a 217 OPS+...

He was also very invloved in 3 of the 7 Sox World Championships.

He obviosly went on to much more greatness in the Bronx, but in his six years at Fenway park, he did more than a whole lot of Red Sox pitchers...

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Not to derail the thread, but from 1914 to 1919, Ruth was 89-46 with a 2.19 ERA. Those rate stats are 5th among Sox pitchers.... They converted him to OF in 1919 and he led the league in R, HR & RBI and lead with a 217 OPS+...

He was also very invloved in 3 of the 7 Sox World Championships.

He obviosly went on to much more greatness in the Bronx, but in his six years at Fenway park, he did more than a whole lot of Red Sox pitchers...

He was a great pitcher, but he only pitched over 30 games 3 times in those 6 seasons... 3 seasons of greatness does not make it to be an all time great for a team... that is all i am saying... His offensive stats were also good but he did not bat enough to be called an all time great either...

 

[apachef4]

was babe ruth really an all time great red sox player??

Was manny ramirez really not an all time great red sox player??

Babe ruth is not an all time great for the red sox... so i would put Ortiz above Ruth and Below Manny... someplace between those 2... but that is a wide gap...

I am not a Red Sox fan so I won't presume to say who is and who is not an all-time great Red Sox player, but I thought I'd throw this in here:

He went 89-46 with an ERA of 2.28 (ERA+ 125) in six seasons with the Red Sox. He was a part of 3 World Series Champions with the Red Sox in which he went 3-0 with an ERA of 0.87 (gave up 3 runs in 31 innings pitched). Just food for thought.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Clearly, as a yankee fan, i consider Babe to be the best player of all time... But unfortunately you can not say that he was an all time great for the red sox... 6 seasons is just not long enough and he didnt do enough of anything...

 

[$500 Million]

Clearly, as a yankee fan, i consider Babe to be the best player of all time... But unfortunately you can not say that he was an all time great for the red sox... 6 seasons is just not long enough and he didnt do enough of anything...

If that's true than no one could ever say that Reggie Jackson was an all time great Yankee, yet they retired his number and he's in the HOF as a Yankee.

 

[steveringo]

Clearly, as a yankee fan, i consider Babe to be the best player of all time... But unfortunately you can not say that he was an all time great for the red sox... 6 seasons is just not long enough and he didnt do enough of anything...

You are clearly overrating the rest of Boston's pitching...

(Just kidding. I hear what you're saying... But he was the Red Sox best player for three World Series victories. So, that has to be good for something...)

 

[MilkSpiller22]

If that's true than no one could ever say that Reggie Jackson was an all time great Yankee, yet they retired his number and he's in the HOF as a Yankee.

Well, he wasnt an all time great yankee... Just because he was retired as a yankee and just because he is in monument park, does not mean he was a great yankee... Bernie williams was a better yankee than reggie Jackson was... Hell, so was jorge posada...

 

[MilkSpiller22]

You are clearly overrating the rest of Boston's pitching...

(Just kidding. I hear what you're saying... But he was the Red Sox best player for three World Series victories. So, that has to be good for something...)

But does 3 years of greatness make you an all time best player for a team??? Even if you win 3 WS championships during your campaign on a team...

 

[$500 Million]

Well, he wasnt an all time great yankee... Just because he was retired as a yankee and just because he is in monument park, does not mean he was a great yankee... Bernie williams was a better yankee than reggie Jackson was... Hell, so was jorge posada...

10 greatest Yankee players

New York Yankees: 10 Best Yankees of All Time | Bleacher Report

Article:Mr. Lister: 26 Greatest Yankees of All Time - ArmchairGM Wiki - Sports Wiki Database


It took me less than 5 minutes to find 3 lists on Google that rank him as an all time great Yankee. I agree with you that he's not, but we are in the minority on this one.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

10 greatest Yankee players

New York Yankees: 10 Best Yankees of All Time | Bleacher Report

Article:Mr. Lister: 26 Greatest Yankees of All Time - ArmchairGM Wiki - Sports Wiki Database


It took me less than 5 minutes to find 3 lists on Google that rank him as an all time great Yankee. I agree with you that he's not, but we are in the minority on this one.

Yea, the problem is that these lists are made from media people who care more about presentation than accuracy... It is a Joke to call Reggie Jackson a better yankee than Jorge Posada and Bernie Williams- and those are just 2 current retirees... Not to mention having Reggie better than AROD!!! that is also a joke...

 

[$500 Million]

Yea, the problem is that these lists are made from media people who care more about presentation than accuracy... It is a Joke to call Reggie Jackson a better yankee than Jorge Posada and Bernie Williams- and those are just 2 current retirees... Not to mention having Reggie better than AROD!!! that is also a joke...

Agreed, it's a joke that they even retired his number.

He was only here 5 years, granted they benefited from having him but like you, I'd take Bernie, Andy, or Jorge ahead of him any day.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Sorry for the Hijack... Back to the premise, Ortiz is probably a top 10 Red sox player of all time... I dont know for sure, since i dont know Redsox history that well... But I would rank him the same as i would rank nomar garciaparra... maybe slightly higher...

 

[steveringo]

Has a statue ever been erected for an active player?

Seriously. It would not surprise me to see one by spring training....