Dalton vs Blitz week 2

[Cincyfan78]

after going 6 of 9 for 118 yards and a TD last week, Dalton followed it up by going 6-10 for 166 and a TD.

Both weeks Dalton has hit a WR for a huge TD against the blitz. Last week was a long sideline shot to AJ, this week he zipped the ball past the DB, into the hands of Sanu who raced 78 yards for the score.

Two week total: 12-19 for 284 and 2 TD's. Not bad for a guy who everyone has agreed needed to improve in this category.

 

[flamingrey]

He needs to improve while under pressure, not necessarily just went blitzed.

In fact, when a team sends a blitz and it's effectively picked up, it makes the QB's job easier.

 

[cincygrad]

He's been good.

At halftime yesterday I was feeling pretty bummed out. It felt like it was going to be one of those days where our offense squandered opportunities (thanks a lot Nuge), Dalton panicked and the defense was going to get tired. But they came out and made the big play to Sanu, the running game stayed strong and we won rather easily. I'll take it.

 

[cincygrad]

He needs to improve while under pressure, not necessarily just went blitzed.

In fact, when a team sends a blitz and it's effectively picked up, it makes the QB's job easier.

Do teams ever really get pressure on us when they rush 4? We have one of the best pass blocking lines in the league.

 

[flamingrey]

Do teams ever really get pressure on us when they rush 4? We have one of the best pass blocking lines in the league.

No they don't, and I wouldn't expect them to. Blitz+Pressure is where I want to see how Dalton reacts.

I have Weeks 5 and 6 marked off on my calendar. Week 5 because the Pats are a perennial playoff team and it's a game on the road. Week 6 because of the Panthers front 7.

 

[Cincyfan78]

He's been good.

At halftime yesterday I was feeling pretty bummed out. It felt like it was going to be one of those days where our offense squandered opportunities (thanks a lot Nuge), Dalton panicked and the defense was going to get tired. But they came out and made the big play to Sanu, the running game stayed strong and we won rather easily. I'll take it.

Yep. In years' past, that's a game, just like last week, they lose. It has been nice to see the offense continue to push the team into scoring range drive after drive. Sure, some punts, and that's going to happen. However, it feels like this offense, more often than not, is going to give themselves multiple opportunities to score. Whereas in the past, if you missed a TD, or FG, you worred about getting back into that range again.

Do teams ever really get pressure on us when they rush 4? We have one of the best pass blocking lines in the league.

Very doubtful. Teams know, though, you can't just send 5-6-7, with a health AJ, Marvin, Sanu, Eiffert...you simply can't leave them all 1-1, or if Gio slips out into the flat. Someone will have a mismatch, and the line, the line-calls from Dalton, and the blitz pickups from the RB/FB have been stellar thus far.

 

[JBUCK66]

I'm still chapped about the 1st and 20 run call

 

[cincygrad]

I'm still chapped about the 1st and 20 run call

I questioned Marvin's time management last week and Crash got mad at me.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

I questioned Marvin's time management last week and Crash got mad at me.

What on earth makes you think Marvin had anything to do with the play call? Marvin has given Hue full control over the offense. If Gio ran for 15 yards on the 1st and 20 everyone would have praised Jackson for it. Atlanta was playing a nickle at that point and playing a bit deeper (albeit not much further back). A run with the way we had been running the ball most the game was worth a gamble and it kept the clock running. Can't say I was thrilled about it, but it was worth a gamble.

The only parts of the game I felt that should have been questioned was the fact we had to take two timeouts in the 1st quarter because guys were moving too damn slowly in and out of the huddle or putting too many guys on the field. Then of course, the prevent defense with 10+ minutes left in the damn game against an offense that threw for 448 yards the previous week. We just let them march down the field for an easy 7 that made my butthole pucker a bit with anxiety. Then they tightened back up.

Use prevent in the last drive of the game with time running down and you are up by two scores. Keep a safety back of course so you have over the top help if someone else got beat, but no one should be playing as far off the WR's as were yesterday with 10+ minutes to go in the game.

 

[cincygrad]

What on earth makes you think Marvin had anything to do with the play call? Marvin has given Hue full control over the offense. If Gio ran for 15 yards on the 1st and 20 everyone would have praised Jackson for it. Atlanta was playing a nickle at that point and playing a bit deeper (albeit not much further back). A run with the way we had been running the ball most the game was worth a gamble and it kept the clock running. Can't say I was thrilled about it, but it was worth a gamble.

The only parts of the game I felt that should have been questioned was the fact we had to take two timeouts in the 1st quarter because guys were moving too damn slowly in and out of the huddle or putting too many guys on the field. Then of course, the prevent defense with 10+ minutes left in the damn game against an offense that threw for 448 yards the previous week. We just let them march down the field for an easy 7 that made my butthole pucker a bit with anxiety. Then they tightened back up.

Use prevent in the last drive of the game with time running down and you are up by two scores. Keep a safety back of course so you have over the top help if someone else got beat, but no one should be playing as far off the WR's as were yesterday with 10+ minutes to go in the game.

You have no idea who is control of what and when they are in control. Nor do I..... Yes Jackson calls the plays -- Marvin is ultimately responsible for game management. It's not like Marvin doesn't hear the play call. Carson Palmer and Marvin Lewis both mentioned several years ago that timeouts come from the sidelines. Marvin could have used his one timeout earlier in the sequence.

It was a fucked up sequence -- One that has occurred under Brat, one that has occurred under Jay and one that has now occurred under Hue. There's only one common denominator here.

 

[DanBengalfan]

he's supposed to get better every year, that's what people do when they are actually trying.

glad it appears he isn't resting on his past success.

 

[bengaldoug]

No they don't, and I wouldn't expect them to. Blitz+Pressure is where I want to see how Dalton reacts.
I have Weeks 5 and 6 marked off on my calendar. Week 5 because the Pats are a perennial playoff team and it's a game on the road. Week 6 because of the Panthers front 7.

You saw one instance of it yesterday on the TD to Sanu. Atlanta rushed 8, one more than the Bengals could block. That left one on one coverage on all three receivers. Dalton saw it coming and audibled to a quick post for Sanu. The tackle got loose right up the middle and was in Dalton's face when he threw. A perfect pass that beat the defender and hit Sanu in stride. That was a play he's been incapable of until now. He's either improving with experience, or Hue is doing a great job keeping him out of his mistake prone situations. I think Hue is doing a great job coaching him. Dalton's not tried many difficult to complete passes, but the few he has have been very successful so far. Bottom line, no turnovers and no sacks is a recipe for winning. Andy seems to be managing the game better than before.

 

[bengaldoug]

Dalton is still getting very ordinary grades from PFF. That's likely because Hue is giving him simple things to do. It's pretty much out with it quick, short, easy to complete passes. After watching him in Gruden's offense make mistake after mistake, this is quite refreshing, and the best possible path to maybe being able to win a playoff game. Run it, conservative safe passing, and play to the defense. Pretty much Seattle's formula for winning it all last year.

 

[flamingrey]

You saw one instance of it yesterday on the TD to Sanu. Atlanta rushed 8, one more than the Bengals could block. That left one on one coverage on all three receivers. Dalton saw it coming and audibled to a quick post for Sanu. The tackle got loose right up the middle and was in Dalton's face when he threw. A perfect pass that beat the defender and hit Sanu in stride. That was a play he's been incapable of until now. He's either improving with experience, or Hue is doing a great job keeping him out of his mistake prone situations. I think Hue is doing a great job coaching him. Dalton's not tried many difficult to complete passes, but the few he has have been very successful so far. Bottom line, no turnovers and no sacks is a recipe for winning. Andy seems to be managing the game better than before.

1) I would say that was a play that he was wildly inconsistent with before, not that he was entirely incapable of. And probably more times than not, a play he would indeed fold on. However, a single play is not going to change that. Furthermore, that play was by design. He called the play and hit the receiver. It's those plays where his first or second options aren't wide open and the pocket begins to collapse where he gets flustered and is prone to big mistakes. Those are some of what need to be corrected to make this team a SB contender.

2) Unless the defense can play at this rate for the entire season and into the playoffs, we will need more than a game manager to win in the playoffs.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

You have no idea who is control of what and when they are in control. Nor do I..... Yes Jackson calls the plays -- Marvin is ultimately responsible for game management. It's not like Marvin doesn't hear the play call. Carson Palmer and Marvin Lewis both mentioned several years ago that timeouts come from the sidelines. Marvin could have used his one timeout earlier in the sequence.

It was a fucked up sequence -- One that has occurred under Brat, one that has occurred under Jay and one that has now occurred under Hue. There's only one common denominator here.

I hear you. Trust me I do. I just think you believe Marvin has his hands in everyone's cookie jar at all times. "In my opinion", the one thing that has made this a better team over the last 12 years with Marvin, was the fact that he has learned to relax and let his coordinators actually control their part of the game. Marvin isn't micromanaging anymore, causing every aspect of the team to be weaker.

I could be wrong in that, but that is what it appears as to me. Granted, there are some pretty f'd up moments regarding clock management, like the end of the 1st half yesterday. He got lucky as hell Gresham got tackled as quick as he did. He should have just gone for it at that point with 6 seconds left. An out pattern takes too much time to develop when the defense is covering against it. It needed to be a pass over the middle, quick slant...4 seconds or so get down over the middle of the field, give Nugent a better chance, call the timeout.

It is what it is. It isn't like we didn't have that timeout sitting in our back pocket.

So trust me when I say, I know what you are saying, and I agree mostly, but I also think you are still holding Marvin as accountable as he was in the beginning with this team. I think he has finally given up a few of the strings on the puppet and letting others participate in the show. I blame that 1st and 20 with a slow to develop run play on Hue. That is my opinion alone though I guess.

 

[bengaldoug]

1) I would say that was a play that he was wildly inconsistent with before, not that he was entirely incapable of. And probably more times than not, a play he would indeed fold on. However, a single play is not going to change that. Furthermore, that play was by design. He called the play and hit the receiver. It's those plays where his first or second options aren't wide open and the pocket begins to collapse where he gets flustered and is prone to big mistakes. Those are some of what need to be corrected to make this team a SB contender.

It was an audible, called by Dalton when he recognized the blitz that was coming. I believe a result of better coaching. I don't ever remember Dalton audibling into a big play in the past. He's generally calmer than before. I credit Hue.


2) Unless the defense can play at this rate for the entire season and into the playoffs, we will need more than a game manager to win in the playoffs.

Our defense is imo good enough to beat playoff teams with a good game manager at quarterback. If Dalton doesn't make big mistakes we're as good as anyone else.

 

[flamingrey]

Our defense is imo good enough to beat playoff teams with a good game manager at quarterback. If Dalton doesn't make big mistakes we're as good as anyone else.

I haven't seen it yet against the Chargers or the Texans. And the defense played very good in those games as well. Unfortunately, the Bengals will have to rely on Dalton to make plays. A game manager isn't going to cut it, and hasn't yet.

 

[JBUCK66]

it was a stupid call with 51 seconds on the clock. I hate that moronic shit. I give Marvin defensive credit, but his clock management and TOs suck pretty good

 

[cincygrad]

Lots of good quarterbacks struggle under pressure. One of the keys for Dalton will be whether he can continue to throw the ball away before facing pressure. So far, so good.

It will also remain to be seen whether he can make the critical plays when the blitz is coming.... The two biggest plays of this year for the offense came on a blitz and the right call was made. Whether this was Hue, Andy or some combination, the outcome was perfect. It's a small sample and it will be much less meaningful if Dalton comes out and throws 4 picks next week, but so far, so good.

 

[bengaldoug]

I haven't seen it yet against the Chargers or the Texans. And the defense played very good in those games as well. Unfortunately, the Bengals will have to rely on Dalton to make plays. A game manager isn't going to cut it, and hasn't yet.

He wasn't able to manage those games because 1) He folded under pressure, and 2) He had no running game. The defense played below its ability against both San Diego and Houston. Usually one team or the other takes over the lines of scrimmage, both running the ball well and stopping the other team's run. Houston and San Diego both ran it down our throats. That forced the quarterback to be a play maker, and Dalton failed miserably. If we can run the ball and play defense against the run, a game manager is all that's required at qb. So in effect I am saying we haven't yet put the quarterback in the position to manage the game, not that I think Dalton still wouldn't have mismanaged it.