Colin Kaepernick vs. Joe Montana

[aarrgghh]

Well, that biggest comeback in the NFC Championship game wasn't all CK. I'm like ridiculously against the idea that QBs are responsible for success alone, so, we'll just have to agree to disagree.. haha, I'll never change my stance.

Nobody enjoyed that record setting day against Green Bay more than I did in the Divisional round. I was like, oh he's pretty good I like him, and then he beat those fuckers and I was like.. full-on homer, GOAT GOAT.. which got checked in the SB loss.

I think he has the chance to beat out some team records, but, his ability to run will naturally decrease his passing stats. Look at this year, 10 passing TDs and 5 rushing in half a year. Being overly generous, 20 passing TDs a year with 10 rushing TDs each year won't get him too far up that stats ladder.

We have no disagreement on that QBs are not entirely responsible for comebacks. Of course not. But there is the notion of 4th quarter comebacks and it is a stat attributable to quarterbacks. Wrongly, but it is the way it is done.

 

[aarrgghh]

You're the person who told one of your fellow fans to fuck off for disagreeing with you. The least civil person here has been you.

I think it was you. I didn't call you or anyone stupid, or a troll. You called me both and it is mostly to you I responded.

 

[JDM]

I called your idea stupid because it is. I called you a troll after you told one of your fellow fans to fuck off for agreeing with me.

 

[Berkeley_Blues]

The 49ers were absolutely giddy to land Kapernick. They actually had him rated as one of the top 2 players of the draft.

I became a CK believer after I watching him take down a top 5 Boise State team that was making a run at the NCG in 2010.

 

[threelittleturds]

We have no disagreement on that QBs are not entirely responsible for comebacks. Of course not. But there is the notion of 4th quarter comebacks and it is a stat attributable to quarterbacks. Wrongly, but it is the way it is done.

That is a pretty good point. You definitely got me there. More on that, Kaep did play great in the comebacks in Atlanta and in the Super Bowl. Just on a personal level I hate that the QB gets all the credit, it was Bowman who essentially won the game with his passed defense.

 

[RoboticDreams]

An awful lot of you guys on this board seem to have clear ideas on what I should not say and I'm beginning to tire of it. I don't care if you take issue with my predictions, but I will not long continue being shouted down. You can get rid of me. Easily.

Seriously? I think your logic is flawed but I'm not accosting you at this point. Simply, tell me where I'm wrong.

 

[threelittleturds]

So what if he told me to fuck off? I was pretty antagonistic, after all I did question his fandom.

 

[aarrgghh]

I called your idea stupid because it is. I called you a troll after you told one of your fellow fans to fuck off for agreeing with me.

I admit that I did react to being accused of having a:

f***** up and distorted view of the Steve Young year
Probably never watched any games and only checked scores from time to time because I was so angry

..because I suggested that Kap might ultimately end up being better than anyone except Montana. That's what I said. No anger or hatred toward anyone needed to be read into that.

That response did upset me 3 birds, so I apologize for my response.

But, it had nothing to do with you or any post you had made JDM. None.

 

[RoboticDreams]

So what if he told me to fuck off? I was pretty antagonistic, after all I did question his fandom.

You weren't antagonizing, you raised good points.

 

[erckm510]

I think the biggest problem is the title of the thread. There is no versus yet. Can Kaep be among the best Niner QB's ever? Doubtful but the fact that people think he has a chance speaks volumes of how much talent he has and how great Montana/Young were.

I was going to say something along the lines that this is like comparing Wilson to the best Seattle QB's but Wilson might just be the best QB they ever had.

 

[MHSL82]

Some people are immune lol. I get being happy with your guy, but the hate for smith is silly. So is the title of this topic.

I am the biggest Alex Smith fan here, many can attest to that. I basically only talk about the QB and a bit on the WRs, but not much. Now that we have Kaep, I've talked less about a certain non-Niner. Anyone that was just a Smith fan and not a Niners fan has left here. I think all the regulars know who I'm talking about (and no, it's not me).

Having said that, I can admit that Kaepernick is the guy, especially for the offense that Kaepernick is running. I believed and still do that with the right game plan that used the clock, slowly moved the field, etc. that we could get to the Super Bowl with Smith, our running team, defense, and Harbaugh/Roman. I don't believe we'd comeback from that 17 point deficit to the Falcons. But I also don't think we necessarily get into the 17-0 deficit with Smith in there because of the safer, less aggressive game plan. Not saying we would win, just that we could have gotten to the SB with Smith. But that's just my opinion - I am not interested in a debate over that. If you don't think we could, then whatever.

I can also vouch for threelittlebirds that he's not a person who exhibited Smith hate. While Smith was here, he was reasonable in his criticisms, praise, and lamentations for our team. I don't join in comparisons of Smith and Kaepernick for multiple reasons, including one of which that I don't think they are that comparable. But one reason, the biggest, is that I'd rather be happy with who we have than to pile on the past. Harbaugh said he doesn't compare players because someone always gets diminished. One can be better with both having good traits, but in a comparison, those are diminished.

I think all of us are excited to have Kaepernick, most understand the circumstances of both QBs, don't have real interest in "hating" on someone who worked hard for the Niners, and these threads that like to come on this board and commiserate on how bad that era was are not met with as much enthusiasm as someone from ESPN might expect. It's just not necessary. We're happy where we are.

 

[aarrgghh]

I think the biggest problem is the title of the thread. There is no versus yet. Can Kaep be among the best Niner QB's ever? Doubtful but the fact that people think he has a chance speaks volumes of how much talent he has and how great Montana/Young were.

I was going to say something along the lines that this is like comparing Wilson to the best Seattle QB's but Wilson might just be the best QB they ever had.

This is a pretty good post and I agree with it. Nobody can truly be compared with Montana, especially someone who hasn't started a full season. It was meant lightly and I thought I made that pretty clear in the post. I obviously no longer feel that way. I was not expecting to reap the whirlwind.

 

[JDM]

But, it had nothing to do with you or any post you had made JDM. None.

It was the reason I called you a troll. That was my only claim, the only less than friendly posts were me calling your opinion stupid, you telling him to fuck off, then me saying you appeared to be a troll, and maybe a couple where you got defensive against other people for agreeing with me.

Can we just leave the bullshit behind and agree we have differing opinions on the point of this thread? You're discussing your points much more legitimately than a troll would; I know longer believe you are troll. I jumped to conclusions because of how you treated the other posters in the thread to that point.

 

[JDM]

I am the biggest Alex Smith fan here, many can attest to that. I basically only talk about the QB and a bit on the WRs, but not much. Now that we have Kaep, I've talked less about a certain non-Niner. Anyone that was just a Smith fan and not a Niners fan has left here. I think all the regulars know who I'm talking about (and no, it's not me).

Having said that, I can admit that Kaepernick is the guy, especially for the offense that Kaepernick is running. I believed and still do that with the right game plan that used the clock, slowly moved the field, etc. that we could get to the Super Bowl with Smith, our running team, defense, and Harbaugh/Roman. I don't believe we'd comeback from that 17 point deficit to the Falcons. But I also don't think we necessarily get into the 17-0 deficit with Smith in there because of the safer, less aggressive game plan. Not saying we would win, just that we could have gotten to the SB with Smith. But that's just my opinion - I am not interested in a debate over that. If you don't think we could, then whatever.

I can also vouch for threelittlebirds that he's not a person who exhibited Smith hate. While Smith was here, he was reasonable in his criticisms, praise, and lamentations for our team. I don't join in comparisons of Smith and Kaepernick for multiple reasons, including one of which that I don't think they are that comparable. But one reason, the biggest, is that I'd rather be happy with who we have than to pile on the past. Harbaugh said he doesn't compare players because someone always gets diminished. One can be better with both having good traits, but in a comparison, those are diminished.

I think all of us are excited to have Kaepernick, most understand the circumstances of both QBs, don't have real interest in "hating" on someone who worked hard for the Niners, and these threads that like to come on this board and commiserate on how bad that era was are not met with as much enthusiasm as someone from ESPN might expect. It's just not necessary. We're happy where we are.

I don't believe he took my comments on smith as intended solely at him. We had a reasonable dialogue about him and he had no real need to be defended.

Clearly I'm not coming off great here either, even if I'm not the only one, but my comments are not attacks.

 

[threelittleturds]

I admit that I did react to being accused of having a:

f***** up and distorted view of the Steve Young year
Probably never watched any games and only checked scores from time to time because I was so angry

..because I suggested that Kap might ultimately end up being better than anyone except Montana. That's what I said. No anger or hatred toward anyone needed to be read into that.

That response did upset me 3 birds, so I apologize for my response.

But, it had nothing to do with you or any post you had made JDM. None.

No need for that, but I am genuinely curious about how you viewed the 1996 and 1997 seasons. Holding those losses to the Packers on Young doesn't lead me to believe you actually followed the 49ers closely in those years.

In 1996, in the regular season the 49ers had a bunch of calls go against them VS GB, most notably the Beebe TD where every replay showed Hanks touch him down... but they ruled it a TD, GB's only TD of the game. That game eventually cost them a bye in the playoffs, and unfortunately Steve Young broke his ribs in the wildcard against the Eagles.... easy win for GB the next week against Grbac.

In 1997, Henderson caught a pass in the flat, made a football move and turned up field and after he got hit he fumbled, with Gary Plummer scooping it up and running in the open field for a TD... wait, fuck that, incomplete pass to save the day. Later on, JJ Stokes catches a TD but then the CB comes running in, full chasemode, and forces JJ to land out of bounds. That was two TDs the Refs took away... GB wins.

So, after all of that, for someone to say Steve Young's win against GB deserves an asterisk. Of course I'm going to wonder if you even watched the previous years.

 

[MHSL82]

... Plus this is the NFL, the QB takes all of the blame when a team doesn't meet fan expectations.

I'm like ridiculously against the idea that QBs are responsible for success alone, so, we'll just have to agree to disagree.. haha, I'll never change my stance.

We have no disagreement on that QBs are not entirely responsible for comebacks. Of course not. But there is the notion of 4th quarter comebacks and it is a stat attributable to quarterbacks. Wrongly, but it is the way it is done.

The first and third quotes remind me of when someone makes a decision that upsets another and says to the one upset, "I'm sorry but the world's unfair" when they had the power to be fair and chose not to. Not talking about these posts, just the "unfair world" part - I hate when people do that. And it happens all the time. If you can make it fair, do so. If there's no way to make it fair for everyone, then say it. If someone else didn't make it fair, then say, "well, the world ain't fair." But if you can make it fair, either do so or don't say that if you choose not to make it fair.

Again, not applying it to here, just saying it reminded me of it.

 

[MHSL82]

An awful lot of you guys on this board seem to have clear ideas on what I should not say and I'm beginning to tire of it. I don't care if you take issue with my predictions, but I will not long continue being shouted down. You can get rid of me. Easily.

Aarrgghh, you're alright by me, but your threat here reminds me of this:


Posting for 0:57 on, but the whole thing is funny.

 

[EKmane]

I understand alright. Understand this:

You don't want to entertain (or allow me to entertain) comparisons between Joe Montana and Kaepernick, or Montana, or Montana and Young, or Montana, Kaepernick, Young, Garcia, or Jeff Kemp? That's fine with me. Send me the rule book so I'll know what's ok and not ok by you. It's not fair to hold me to imaginary standards until you define them clearly.

OK, I wasn't being serious. Now I am. Don't tell me what to talk about and I'l do you the same courtesy.

You made a thread for people to comment on, deal with it.

 

[EKmane]

An awful lot of you guys on this board seem to have clear ideas on what I should not say and I'm beginning to tire of it. I don't care if you take issue with my predictions, but I will not long continue being shouted down. You can get rid of me. Easily.

I'm taking my ball and going home

 

[aarrgghh]

No need for that, but I am genuinely curious about how you viewed the 1996 and 1997 seasons. Holding those losses to the Packers on Young doesn't lead me to believe you actually followed the 49ers closely in those years.

In 1996, in the regular season the 49ers had a bunch of calls go against them VS GB, most notably the Beebe TD where every replay showed Hanks touch him down... but they ruled it a TD, GB's only TD of the game. That game eventually cost them a bye in the playoffs, and unfortunately Steve Young broke his ribs in the wildcard against the Eagles.... easy win for GB the next week against Grbac.

In 1997, Henderson caught a pass in the flat, made a football move and turned up field and after he got hit he fumbled, with Gary Plummer scooping it up and running in the open field for a TD... wait, fuck that, incomplete pass to save the day. Later on, JJ Stokes catches a TD but then the CB comes running in, full chasemode, and forces JJ to land out of bounds. That was two TDs the Refs took away... GB wins.

So, after all of that, for someone to say Steve Young's win against GB deserves an asterisk. Of course I'm going to wonder if you even watched the previous years.

The asterisk comment actually has nothing to do with Young. It does have to do with Rice. Right before the great pass to Owens, Rice clearly fumbled and the ball was recovered by the enemy. Why the call wasn't overturned I will never know, but the game would have otherwise been over.

By the same token, the asterisk next to Michael Strahan's sack record is not his fault. It has to do with Favre, but still, it de-legitimizes his accomplishment.

To address the other years when GB benefitted from bad calls, I can only say that was annoying and frustrating as well. I don't like winning (or losing) that way.

To answer your question, I haven't missed a game since the 1980 season. I used to go to many of the games, as I know lots of season ticket holders. Nowadays I mostly watch on TV since I live and work in the Seattle area.