Cano to 1st base?

[unlvmariners]

I can see that thinking. I just think CF defense especially at a park like Safeco matters. After seeing what Gamel looked like in CF at Coors and Haniger a few times, you can see the difference when Heredia isn't out there. Ideally either Healy or Heredia could be platooned but I don't see it with this roster currently.

I think generally speaking you are correct and I would normally agree.. however I think with this specific situation and current roster, I think you get more bang for your buck with Healy in the lineup over Heredia. If Heredia was doing better at the plate then I think the argument is easily with Heredia but he is pretty awful at the plate lately he doesn't have the threat level of Healy.

 

[NWinAZ]

I don't truly think Healy is or was going to be a 1B of the future. He is under control and young but still more of a stop gap until either Cano moves there or White is ready. He may be the 3B of the future but I don't think 1B was ever Jerry's intent when he traded for him.

Actually 3B was never considered because he is horrible defender at 3B. Worse than at 1B. DIP said from the beginning this was the 1B move for the future. That is why it doesn't make sense to shift him around or in and out of the lineup at this point in his career.

"After going year to year such a long time with first base a question mark, we're hopeful Ryon can step in and solve much of that problem," Dipoto said. "He's a good offensive player who gives us that right-handed power element."

 

[wazzu31]

Actually 3B was never considered because he is horrible defender at 3B. Worse than at 1B. DIP said from the beginning this was the 1B move for the future. That is why it doesn't make sense to shift him around or in and out of the lineup at this point in his career.

"After going year to year such a long time with first base a question mark, we're hopeful Ryon can step in and solve much of that problem," Dipoto said. "He's a good offensive player who gives us that right-handed power element."

I don't put much into what a GM says, he is paid to lie to fans, players and the media.

But you do bring up a good point and I agree to a point. Moving him around doesn't make a ton of sense but noone could have forseen Cano getting suspended then them moving Gordon to 2B. If going forward they want what's best for the organization (and Dipoto's "preaching defense) then Gordon is the 2B and Cano at either 1B or DH (but I believe they should resign Cruz) Maybe that means Healy can be a trade chip in the future.

 

[NWinAZ]

I don't put much into what a GM says, he is paid to lie to fans, players and the media.

But you do bring up a good point and I agree to a point. Moving him around doesn't make a ton of sense but noone could have forseen Cano getting suspended then them moving Gordon to 2B. If going forward they want what's best for the organization (and Dipoto's "preaching defense) then Gordon is the 2B and Cano at either 1B or DH (but I believe they should resign Cruz) Maybe that means Healy can be a trade chip in the future.

Healy would have to regain worth and he can only do that by playing (and by playing well). I mean we got him for a rookie bullpen arm after he hit 26 homers and batted like .275 in Oakland.

I can't argue with anyone wanting to re-sign Cruz, but it just clogs the lineup w/o having an open DH spot and not being able to move Cano elsewhere. Gordon should be 2B, but not sure if I would rather have Cano in and Healy out. Now that Cano can't use his special juice, how long before he gets another injury that lasts half a season? So I guess it comes down to having Healy and his 5 years of control and cheapness or Cruz at 38 costing $15M per for 1 or 2 years. We could use that $15M er for a CF and/or SP. And there is no argument that Cruz is the better player by a long shot even at 38 and 39 year seasons...maybe even at his 40 year season.

 

[wazzu31]

Healy would have to regain worth and he can only do that by playing (and by playing well). I mean we got him for a rookie bullpen arm after he hit 26 homers and batted like .275 in Oakland.

I can't argue with anyone wanting to re-sign Cruz, but it just clogs the lineup w/o having an open DH spot and not being able to move Cano elsewhere. Gordon should be 2B, but not sure if I would rather have Cano in and Healy out. Now that Cano can't use his special juice, how long before he gets another injury that lasts half a season? So I guess it comes down to having Healy and his 5 years of control and cheapness or Cruz at 38 costing $15M per for 1 or 2 years. We could use that $15M er for a CF and/or SP. And there is no argument that Cruz is the better player by a long shot even at 38 and 39 year seasons...maybe even at his 40 year season.

I'm not against the argument of Healy needing to play, but Cano coming back someone has to be the odd man out. Though I disagree with his value, if Jerry is competent as a GM, which I am still unsure of. But Andrew Moore looked like garbage to finish off the year and in spring training and he flipped him for Span and Colome. So if he does his job he could find a team who has a need for him. Thankfully there are a ton of teams tanking but would take on a controllable player. Again, this is depending on him doing his job. He has shown he can fleece teams but also has shown he can get fleeced as well.

And I truly don't think Cruz is worth $15 million and will settle for $10 this offseason. Agree they should spend money on a CF, or crossing fingers move Haniger to CF and put Lewis in RF or LF. They can't be cheap because the organization screwed themselves with Cano, Felix and Seager contract.

 

[NWinAZ]

I'm not against the argument of Healy needing to play, but Cano coming back someone has to be the odd man out. Though I disagree with his value, if Jerry is competent as a GM, which I am still unsure of. But Andrew Moore looked like garbage to finish off the year and in spring training and he flipped him for Span and Colome. So if he does his job he could find a team who has a need for him. Thankfully there are a ton of teams tanking but would take on a controllable player. Again, this is depending on him doing his job. He has shown he can fleece teams but also has shown he can get fleeced as well.

Young pitching will always out value young 1B or even young 3B if some teams dares to go there. His defense almost makes him a DH which really limits the trade options. And Beane is twice the GM DIP is and all he got was a rookie middle reliever for him coming off a much better year. And nobody knows what non-juiced Cano will bring.

I know Cano will play and Healy will sit, but I hate the whole aspect of it.

And I truly don't think Cruz is worth $15 million and will settle for $10 this offseason. Agree they should spend money on a CF, or crossing fingers move Haniger to CF and put Lewis in RF or LF. They can't be cheap because the organization screwed themselves with Cano, Felix and Seager contract.

Cruz is making $14.25M the last four years and is producing again so not sure if he will take a hometown discount of $10M. It would be great if he did for the M's, but I could see another team paying more...at least in the baseball of the last few years but who knows with this new baseball where 5 or 6 teams try in each league and 9 or 10 just call it in.

 

[PolarVortex]

1- Why acquire a young player who had a good rookie year and then platoon him. He will never get better by doing that but that seems to be a Mariners thing.

2- Then who plays 1B in the playoffs? Healy who just got demoted, less AB's, and no confidence?

I think you have to play Healy as much as possible to get him back to the guy they thought they traded for or trade him now. He is at that Montero point in his career. I think his defense has been over scrutinized. Yes he makes some odd plays on balls in play, but he has also made some great picks on throws. I would just hate to see an asset screwed up after 90 games.

Playoffs? Well, if they do actually make the playoffs, there's about an 80% chance that its just for one game. Does anyone really expect them to win a one-game, winner-take-all playoff game in NY? Which pitcher starts that game? Paxton is the obvious choice but he is such a mental midget that I'd honestly rather see someone else get the ball.

 

[Duders]

I don't think we'll make the playoffs anyway so not worried about who starts, and I don't give a rip about Cano coming back for remainder of the regular season. Everyone is trying to figure out how to work him in and who gets pushed out to make room for a guy who started the mess in the first place. I guess I'm old school- and don't think the M's should be rewarding a liar. Sure, he got caught and paid the price- 80 game susp/no pay etc. Explaining to the son why you shouldn't use drugs is tough enough without him seeing an M's star being given so much attention. Obviously winning is more important than honesty and ethics.

 

[mcnabb7542]

I don't think we'll make the playoffs anyway so not worried about who starts, and I don't give a rip about Cano coming back for remainder of the regular season. Everyone is trying to figure out how to work him in and who gets pushed out to make room for a guy who started the mess in the first place. I guess I'm old school- and don't think the M's should be rewarding a liar. Sure, he got caught and paid the price- 80 game susp/no pay etc. Explaining to the son why you shouldn't use drugs is tough enough without him seeing an M's star being given so much attention. Obviously winning is more important than honesty and ethics.

Yes but this current management has this franchise on the door step of the "playoffs" something that hasn't happen since 2001. They aren't going to take a the high road on this, if Robbie's swing is looking hot, they have to put him in, since their 3rd baseman, their 1st baseman, and there centerfield couldn't hit water falling out of a boat right now....

 

[mcnabb7542]

And as for resigning Cruz during the offseason, I would in a heart beat cause at the same time Im shopping Cano, ( if I can get any serious takers) Like @Duders stated you don't want to play that marketing nightmare down the road, I would how ever use him right now just to get the play off drought off this franchise back!

 

[wazzu31]

Cruz is making $14.25M the last four years and is producing again so not sure if he will take a hometown discount of $10M. It would be great if he did for the M's, but I could see another team paying more...at least in the baseball of the last few years but who knows with this new baseball where 5 or 6 teams try in each league and 9 or 10 just call it in.

My main line of thinking is he is more valuable to the Mariners than any other team in baseball and I think his value is nothing in the offseason. All the teams in AL that are in a position to even want Cruz have a DH. I can't imagine any of the teams in the AL that are rebuilding would pay him. I could be completely wrong but that's just how I feel the offseason would go for him if he is expecting a package. Cruz is in the same boat as Earl Thomas with their production deserves a fat new contract but the market for their age and position isn't high on teams priority lists.

 

[NWinAZ]

My main line of thinking is he is more valuable to the Mariners than any other team in baseball and I think his value is nothing in the offseason. All the teams in AL that are in a position to even want Cruz have a DH. I can't imagine any of the teams in the AL that are rebuilding would pay him. I could be completely wrong but that's just how I feel the offseason would go for him if he is expecting a package. Cruz is in the same boat as Earl Thomas with their production deserves a fat new contract but the market for their age and position isn't high on teams priority lists.

I could see Boston paying him to DH in a second. Twins as well. Rangers. Astros just for the hell of it show that they can do whatever they want. Yankees. Orioles to replace Machado bat for a couple years. I think there would be a few teams especially on a one year deal.

 

[NWinAZ]

Playoffs? Well, if they do actually make the playoffs, there's about an 80% chance that its just for one game. Does anyone really expect them to win a one-game, winner-take-all playoff game in NY? Which pitcher starts that game? Paxton is the obvious choice but he is such a mental midget that I'd honestly rather see someone else get the ball.

Oh ya, they don't beat anyone in a one game series and I will never count a one game series a playoff so for me the drought would still be alive. It is nothing more than game 163.

 

[SeattleCoug]

I don't think we'll make the playoffs anyway so not worried about who starts, and I don't give a rip about Cano coming back for remainder of the regular season. Everyone is trying to figure out how to work him in and who gets pushed out to make room for a guy who started the mess in the first place. I guess I'm old school- and don't think the M's should be rewarding a liar. Sure, he got caught and paid the price- 80 game susp/no pay etc. Explaining to the son why you shouldn't use drugs is tough enough without him seeing an M's star being given so much attention. Obviously winning is more important than honesty and ethics.

I get it. I’m still pissed at Cano. Unless they miraculously win the WS his decision will end up costing this team in some form.


Regardless this team needs him. Offense is scoring nearly a run less a game without him and just being able to score 3 a game is difficult right now.

 

[PolarVortex]

Interesting timing for bring up Vogelbach, Any chance he is being showcased? He is wasting away in our org. He's never going to get the prolonged look at first base that he needs to show one way or another if he can be effective at the MLB level. He needs to be given a chance in a low profile place on a team that has nothing to lose, like Tampa or San Diego or KC.

First basemen splits
Cano vs LHP: .275/.397/.848
vs RHP: .293/377/435/812

Healy vs LHP: .209/.261/.372/.633
vs RHP: .249/.271/.471/.742

Vogelbach vs LHP: .087/.192/.130/.323
vs RHP: .220/.333/.317/.650

Romine vs LHP: .250/.250/.250/.500
vs RHP: .176/.250/.196/.446

 

[PolarVortex]

Cruz is making $14.25M the last four years and is producing again so not sure if he will take a hometown discount of $10M. It would be great if he did for the M's, but I could see another team paying more...at least in the baseball of the last few years but who knows with this new baseball where 5 or 6 teams try in each league and 9 or 10 just call it in.

Agreed about the hometown discount. With the amount of money the Mariners have been throwing around recently (to Dipoto, Servais and LeBlanc), I have to believe that Cruz has already been offered an extension but it falls short of what he wants. This team has gambled enough money over the course of the history of the franchise. I don't see why something like two years/$32 million shouldn't be done. If they lose him, they won't be able to replace his impact in the lineup unless they strike lightening in a bottle. So the gamble is whether or not he can defy age for two more years. Most likely he cannot but the risk is still worth.

Could he hit, say 55-60 homeruns and 150-170 RBI over those two years with an OBP of .340+? I'd be okay with that.

 

[seattlefan75]

I cant argue with Healy playing defense but I cant see how thats the reason why this team has been hitting a slump and got smacked around by colorado. I really cant see the problem with Healy he may be in a slump right now but he is still putting up kyle seager numbers at the plate overall. I sure as hell would take my chances with him than Daniel Vogelbach. I think the problem is trying to add another quality pitcher because pitching was the reason why this team was winning games early in the season and pitching has looked awful from hernandez, paxton, and leake in the Angels and Rockies series

 

[NWinAZ]

Interesting timing for bring up Vogelbach, Any chance he is being showcased? He is wasting away in our org. He's never going to get the prolonged look at first base that he needs to show one way or another if he can be effective at the MLB level. He needs to be given a chance in a low profile place on a team that has nothing to lose, like Tampa or San Diego or KC.

First basemen splits
Cano vs LHP: .275/.397/.848
vs RHP: .293/377/435/812

Healy vs LHP: .209/.261/.372/.633
vs RHP: .249/.271/.471/.742

Vogelbach vs LHP: .087/.192/.130/.323
vs RHP: .220/.333/.317/.650

Romine vs LHP: .250/.250/.250/.500
vs RHP: .176/.250/.196/.446

My wife and I both noticed that Vogelbach has gotten even fatter since the last time up. His gut is hanging lower than before...sad.

 

[PolarVortex]

My wife and I both noticed that Vogelbach has gotten even fatter since the last time up. His gut is hanging lower than before...sad.

Yep. Complacent. Maybe he's satisfied being a career minor leaguer, where he can close the bars every night and still be a productive player.

 

[wazzu31]

I could see Boston paying him to DH in a second. Twins as well. Rangers. Astros just for the hell of it show that they can do whatever they want. Yankees. Orioles to replace Machado bat for a couple years. I think there would be a few teams especially on a one year deal.

I can't see Boston because of JD Martinez, I can't see the Astros or Yankees either, can't see the O's with the rebuild they are about to go through. The Indians are an interesting team and I would think the only other team that would possibly., The Twins I can't see because they finally spent decent money this offseason and have been the most disappointing team in baseball.