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Both Shaq and Dr. J have Karl Malone in their top 10 all-time… Are they really that off base?

HurricaneDij39

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Is Malone actually underrated on the all-time rankings? His averages of 25 and 10 across 19 seasons is tough to beat…
 

tlance

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Is Malone actually underrated on the all-time rankings? His averages of 25 and 10 across 19 seasons is tough to beat…

He is on the fringe.

He was probably in the top 10 when he retired. But Kobe, Duncan and LeBron have pushed him out. Especially Duncan, since before Timmy the Mailman was the best PF of all time.

But yes, look at their overall lists. Lots of clearly deserving players left off. They have it wrong for sure.
 

broncosmitty

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Shaq doesn’t have the Mailman in his top ten.

Said so yesterday.

He does have Curry, AI and Zeke though.
 

DJ Fieri

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He is on the fringe.

He was probably in the top 10 when he retired. But Kobe, Duncan and LeBron have pushed him out. Especially Duncan, since before Timmy the Mailman was the best PF of all time.

But yes, look at their overall lists. Lots of clearly deserving players left off. They have it wrong for sure.
Yep.
 

R.J. MacReady

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He's 3rd on the all time scoring list ....so that proves he does not belong in the top 10.
 

broncosmitty

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dr j does,nt have larry bird in his top 10 either.malone just got pushed out better players.
Dr J has Malone on his list.

Doesn’t have Shaq or himself. Or anyone that has played since ‘04. Shaq has both Dr. J and the Big Shaqtus, no Malone.
 

MHSL82

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He is on the fringe.

He was probably in the top 10 when he retired. But Kobe, Duncan and LeBron have pushed him out. Especially Duncan, since before Timmy the Mailman was the best PF of all time.

But yes, look at their overall lists. Lots of clearly deserving players left off. They have it wrong for sure.

I know that based upon how they played him and other players that played around him, he played like a power forward. But in my highly rationalized brain, I tell myself that he’s a Center because of his blocks and height.

I also probably over emphasize points. Duncan averaged between 19 to 22 points too often for me to look at stats. His top averages were 25.5, 23.3, and 23.2. Everything else is below that. Malone averaged over 25.

Based upon height, Malone did pretty well for rebounds (10.1), even though Duncan has the edge on that (10.8).

Malone had more assists (3.6 vs 3.0) and steals (1.4 vs 0.7) by a significant average. I think Duncan got fewer steals because he was there for blocks (2.2 versus 0.8) but I could argue the same from Malone’s that he had fewer blocks because he was defending a bit farther away, and was shorter. Charles Barkley was great for rebounds based on his height.

So I feel that Duncan on the defensive end was like a Center and on offense more like a power forward. He was used very well. The Spurs could afford a regular center who didn’t score because they had Duncan. Two tall guys (which I understand is not good in todays NBA and Spurs had great outside shooters beyond the Jazz’s Hornacek.) Yes, I know he has defended power forwards, too.

Malone shot 51.6% and Duncan shot 50.6%. I believe Malone shot further with more jump shots (maybe too many settled jump shots) and Duncan closer (Yes, I know about Duncan’s free throw bank shot and Malone’s transition dunks.) Not that it matters, but Malone shot 27.4% from three and Duncan 17.9%. Malone’s free-throw shooting was 74.2% and Duncan’s was 69.6%.

People may point to last few years of Duncan, but Malone played almost 100 more games. So Malone’s average should’ve gone down.

I understand that people then use other intangibles, rings, etc., but I accept other people, having other opinions, I know that I’m biased. Duncan would’ve done better maybe with Stockton and Parker as far as individual stats. I’m not saying team success because obviously there’s a chemistry and other factors that Parker contributed. Malone definitely benefited from being the number one guy there. Sloan was a great coach, but obviously with Popovich, the Spurs won. So to resolve things for me, I called him a center. ;)
 
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Mebert

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I know that based upon how they played him and other players that played around him, he played like a power forward. But in my highly rationalized brain, I tell myself that he’s a Center because of his blocks and height.

I also probably over emphasize points. Duncan averaged between 19 to 22 points too often for me to look at stats. His top averages were 25.5, 23.3, and 23.2. Everything else is below that. Malone averaged over 25.

Based upon height, Malone did pretty well for rebounds (10.1), even though Duncan has the edge on that (10.8).

Malone had more assists (3.6 vs 3.0) and steals (1.4 vs 0.7) by a significant average. I think Duncan got fewer steals because he was there for blocks (2.2 versus 0.8) but I could argue the same from Malone’s that he had fewer blocks because he was defending a bit farther away, and was shorter. Charles Barkley was great for rebounds based on his height.

So I feel that Duncan on the defensive end was like a Center and on offense more like a power forward. He was used very well. The Spurs could afford a regular center who didn’t score because they had Duncan. Two tall guys (which I understand is not good in todays NBA and Spurs had great outside shooters beyond the Jazz’s Hornacek.) Yes, I know he has defended power forwards, too.

Malone shot 51.6% and Duncan shot 50.6%. I believe Malone shot further with more jump shots (maybe too many settled jump shots) and Duncan closer (Yes, I know about Duncan’s free throw bank shot and Malone’s transition dunks.) Not that it matters, but Malone shot 27.4% from three and Duncan 17.9%. Malone’s free-throw shooting was 74.2% and Duncan’s was 69.6%.

People may point to last few years of Duncan, but Malone played almost 100 more games. So Malone’s average should’ve gone down.

I understand that people then use other intangibles, rings, etc., but I accept other people, having other opinions, I know that I’m biased. Duncan would’ve done better maybe with Stockton and Parker as far as individual stats. I’m not saying team success because obviously there’s a chemistry and other factors that Parker contributed. Malone definitely benefited from being the number one guy there. Sloan was a great coach, but obviously with Popovich, the Spurs won. So to resolve things for me, I called him a center. ;)
Even if you ignore the rings you can't ignore what they did in the playoffs. Duncan remained consistent in his game, Malone fg% drops to 46.

The main reason Malone does not have a ring is because the Jazz peak happened at the same time as the Bulls peak, but Malones struggles in the playoffs did not help.

I also think you remove Parker and Ginobli you still get same Duncan, remove Stockton from Malone he is not the same. Still great, but not close to what he was.
 

tlance

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I know that based upon how they played him and other players that played around him, he played like a power forward. But in my highly rationalized brain, I tell myself that he’s a Center because of his blocks and height.

I also probably over emphasize points. Duncan averaged between 19 to 22 points too often for me to look at stats. His top averages were 25.5, 23.3, and 23.2. Everything else is below that. Malone averaged over 25.

Based upon height, Malone did pretty well for rebounds (10.1), even though Duncan has the edge on that (10.8).

Malone had more assists (3.6 vs 3.0) and steals (1.4 vs 0.7) by a significant average. I think Duncan got fewer steals because he was there for blocks (2.2 versus 0.8) but I could argue the same from Malone’s that he had fewer blocks because he was defending a bit farther away, and was shorter. Charles Barkley was great for rebounds based on his height.

So I feel that Duncan on the defensive end was like a Center and on offense more like a power forward. He was used very well. The Spurs could afford a regular center who didn’t score because they had Duncan. Two tall guys (which I understand is not good in todays NBA and Spurs had great outside shooters beyond the Jazz’s Hornacek.) Yes, I know he has defended power forwards, too.

Malone shot 51.6% and Duncan shot 50.6%. I believe Malone shot further with more jump shots (maybe too many settled jump shots) and Duncan closer (Yes, I know about Duncan’s free throw bank shot and Malone’s transition dunks.) Not that it matters, but Malone shot 27.4% from three and Duncan 17.9%. Malone’s free-throw shooting was 74.2% and Duncan’s was 69.6%.

People may point to last few years of Duncan, but Malone played almost 100 more games. So Malone’s average should’ve gone down.

I understand that people then use other intangibles, rings, etc., but I accept other people, having other opinions, I know that I’m biased. Duncan would’ve done better maybe with Stockton and Parker as far as individual stats. I’m not saying team success because obviously there’s a chemistry and other factors that Parker contributed. Malone definitely benefited from being the number one guy there. Sloan was a great coach, but obviously with Popovich, the Spurs won. So to resolve things for me, I called him a center. ;)

I think it is fair to label Duncan a center because he surely would be today.

And he might have been more often back then if not teamed with the Admiral.

But, the 1 glaring thing your analysis misses is defense. Duncan was an elite defender,
 
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It's an age/generation thing.

Both Shaq and Dr J played against Karl.

You ask most people aged 35+ and they will say that MJ is the clear GOAT
You ask a 20 year old and they will be more inclined to say Lebron

Everyones top 10 will change based on what era they grew up in. Outside of Wilt, I have seen every single player play (mostly) in their prime in my top 10.
 

MHSL82

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Even if you ignore the rings you can't ignore what they did in the playoffs. Duncan remained consistent in his game, Malone fg% drops to 46.

The main reason Malone does not have a ring is because the Jazz peak happened at the same time as the Bulls peak, but Malones struggles in the playoffs did not help.

I also think you remove Parker and Ginobli you still get same Duncan, remove Stockton from Malone he is not the same. Still great, but not close to what he was.

In my novel, I was going to add that I think Stockton would win a ring in San Antonio if he took Parker’s place but can’t say Malone would if he took Duncan’s place.
 

tlance

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In my novel, I was going to add that I think Stockton would win a ring in San Antonio if he took Parker’s place but can’t say Malone would if he took Duncan’s place.

No doubt.

Stockton was a lot better than Tony Parker.

I do think Malone gets a couple if he were part of the Spurs dynasty in the Duncan era, but probably not as many as Duncan.

The real question is whether Duncan gets one in Utah?

Maybe? I don’t know.
 
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