Boone Slight MCL Tear

[AU_Fever]

Niners can't afford to use that strategy anymore. They need healthy bodies who can contribute immediately even if it is just ST. They need a lot of help and it's imperative the Baalke hits on this upcoming draft. Niners are not just looking at 2016, but beyond next year. With Gabbert possibly the starting QB next year, it will be another rebuilding year and possibly another losing season.

 

[deep9er]

Depends on the talent level of the player. Nobody knew if Lattimore would make it back from his injury but his talents and skill sets were so good, a 4th felt like a potential steal.

after years of proven results by the 49ers, not speculation........you still want to draft IR players because "it feels like..." or "is a potential....."? Because ALL these IR guys from the past, felt good and were potential steals. We get all of them one round later than projected, so we feel good about it at the time. But bottom line is....NONE have reached their potential. not even close.

Again, i'm talking about rounds 1 to 4, not never ever. IF a good, injured talent falls to Round 5 or later, then consider it. We need draft classes to hit every year, using a higher pick on an IR reduces the odds.

 

[deep9er]

Niners can't afford to use that strategy anymore. They need healthy bodies who can contribute immediately even if it is just ST. They need a lot of help and it's imperative the Baalke hits on this upcoming draft. Niners are not just looking at 2016, but beyond next year. With Gabbert possibly the starting QB next year, it will be another rebuilding year and possibly another losing season.

yes yes yes! this applies to every draft, even if we're a good team.

Why? because you can't keep good teams together for long, so you always have to get healthy guys ready to step in. You can't be HOPING an IR player will reach his potential, the NFL changes too fast.

 

[AU_Fever]

yes yes yes! this applies to every draft, even if we're a good team.

Why? because you can't keep good teams together for long, so you always have to get healthy guys ready to step in. You can't be HOPING an IR player will reach his potential, the NFL changes too fast.

So true Deep. This strategy of pick and stash is done. An example is the RB position. Hyde goes down, Hunter never gets healthy, Bush season-ending IR and Niners had no backup. Davis was a disappointment. Same thing with the ILB. Baalke knew that Willis and Borland retired, yet did not address this issue. Instead, he drafted a TE, WR (Smelter on IR), and a punter who he could have drafted in the 7th round. Baalke is clueless!!

 

[Pattersonca65]

So true Deep. This strategy of pick and stash is done. An example is the RB position. Hyde goes down, Hunter never gets healthy, Bush season-ending IR and Niners had no backup. Davis was a disappointment. Same thing with the ILB. Baalke knew that Willis and Borland retired, yet did not address this issue. Instead, he drafted a TE, WR (Smelter on IR), and a punter who he could have drafted in the 7th round. Baalke is clueless!!

The IR stash strategy made sense in 2012 and even 2013 when the roster was deep and rookies were going to be sitting on the bench. With the exception of Lattimore it worked out injury wise but Baalke chose players like Martin who just aren't good period. Baalke's latest draft strategy the past year or so I fund puzzling. He is drafting BPA only and on top of that, he thinks he is some mad scientist that can find future stars in the draft at lower draft positions because they are projects in one way or another. He goes after players that either played another position in college or didn't play all four years of college football or some other thing.

 

[deep9er]

The IR stash strategy made sense in 2012 and even 2013 when the roster was deep and rookies were going to be sitting on the bench. With the exception of Lattimore it worked out injury wise but Baalke chose players like Martin who just aren't good period. Baalke's latest draft strategy the past year or so I fund puzzling. He is drafting BPA only and on top of that, he thinks he is some mad scientist that can find future stars in the draft at lower draft positions because they are projects in one way or another. He goes after players that either played another position in college or didn't play all four years of college football or some other thing.

as of TODAY, are you for or against drafting IR players? I get the strategy back when Baalke started this, but it has proven to be a bad idea. Not speculation, it has PROVEN to be a bad idea.

NONE of them panned out, not only Lattimore. Was spending a 2nd round pick on Carradine paying off 3 years later? ie are we getting more than 2nd round production out of Carradine?

Was spending a 3rd on Brandon Thomas worth it 2 years later? Will we get more than 3rd round production out of him next season?

 

[Pattersonca65]

as of TODAY, are you for or against drafting IR players? I get the strategy back when Baalke started this, but it has proven to be a bad idea. Not speculation, it has PROVEN to be a bad idea.

NONE of them panned out, not only Lattimore. Was spending a 2nd round pick on Carradine paying off 3 years later? ie are we getting more than 2nd round production out of Carradine?

Was spending a 3rd on Brandon Thomas worth it 2 years later? Will we get more than 3rd round production out of him next season?

I am completely against it today because we no longer have a deep roster. I would disagree a bit there on it being proven to being a bad strategy at the time. What we learned wasn't that the IR strategy failed, what we learned is that Baalke has been a bad judge of talent. If injuries had kept these players from playing then it was a bad strategy. Its not that these players were injured, its that they are not NFL caliber players. Had Martin nor Carradine, or Thomas been injured and we had drafted them higher because of their pre draft hype, we would not have been any better off. Martin, Tank, and Thomas are ready to play, they just aren't any good. Lemonier wasn't an IR player nor was LaMichael James, or AJ Jenkins. But they still suck because Baalke misjudged the talent level of all these players. That is the real issue here.

 

[deep9er]

I am completely against it today because we no longer have a deep roster. I would disagree a bit there on it being proven to being a bad strategy at the time. What we learned wasn't that the IR strategy failed, what we learned is that Baalke has been a bad judge of talent. If injuries had kept these players from playing then it was a bad strategy. Its not that these players were injured, its that they are not NFL caliber players. Had Martin nor Carradine, or Thomas been injured and we had drafted them higher because of their pre draft hype, we would not have been any better off. Martin, Tank, and Thomas are ready to play, they just aren't any good. Lemonier wasn't an IR player nor was LaMichael James, or AJ Jenkins. But they still suck because Baalke misjudged the talent level of all these players. That is the real issue here.

first, i'm talking about "drafting IR players" from here on, not 2011. Since we have four years of results, we can now see how this strategy worked. You don't have to repeat why Baalke did it four years ago, i'm talking about here on.

second, so if we did have a deep roster now, you'd be ok if Baalke continues this strategy. That is what i'm getting from the bolded sentence. Assume we have a deep roster now, your saying Baalke is a bad judge of talent but you're ok with him drafting IR players.

thirdly, to me drafting IR players and Baalke's ability to judge are different topics. But i'm trying to stay in tune with you, and is why i didn't separate it above. that is also why i didn't get you earlier, because for me it is mixing two different topics. granted it isn't totally separate, but IMO you shouldn't try to address both at the same time.

anyway, appreciate your posting and i'm not purposely being argumentive.

 

[Ricky Roma]

It's pretty clear that we need contributions from as many guys as possible...as soon as possible. You tell me there is a Lawrence Taylor/Anthony Munoz/Randy Moss type player that will be shelved for the year, and I'll listen.

 

[Pattersonca65]

first, i'm talking about "drafting IR players" from here on, not 2011. Since we have four years of results, we can now see how this strategy worked. You don't have to repeat why Baalke did it four years ago, i'm talking about here on.

second, so if we did have a deep roster now, you'd be ok if Baalke continues this strategy. That is what i'm getting from the bolded sentence. Assume we have a deep roster now, your saying Baalke is a bad judge of talent but you're ok with him drafting IR players.

thirdly, to me drafting IR players and Baalke's ability to judge are different topics. But i'm trying to stay in tune with you, and is why i didn't separate it above. that is also why i didn't get you earlier, because for me it is mixing two different topics. granted it isn't totally separate, but IMO you shouldn't try to address both at the same time.

anyway, appreciate your posting and i'm not purposely being argumentive.

That's okay. Don't worry. Your posts are always respectful and makes for good debate which is all we have with this team right now.

That's what I have been saying in my previous posts is that I was okay with it then but not okay with it now because of our roster. If we had a roster like 2012 right now I wouldn't be opposed to drafting a couple of players that way. Not all but some. I don't think Baalke's ability to judge and drafting IR players are different when it comes to this discussion. When we evaluate the poor drafting results, I don't see it as a result of the IR strategy but rather it is Baalke's bad talent evaluation so I can't say drafting IR guys in the past was a failure or a mistake. I think Baalke's poor evaluation of players is the bigger issue. Lets look at one player for instance, Tank Carradine. He was a top college prospect and injured. Was stashed the first year. He came from a 4-3 system as a pass rushing end type player. The 49ers are a 3-4 team and had Tank put on weight and play inside where he has been a failure thus far. Now they have him losing weight and trying to play like he did in College. Is Tank a failure because he was an IR player or was he a failure because the 49ers tried to make a player something he is not?

Moving forward I would not employ the IR strategy and would also stop drafting these project players and because this roster needs proven players that could step in ASAP.

 

[Pattersonca65]

It's pretty clear that we need contributions from as many guys as possible...as soon as possible. You tell me there is a Lawrence Taylor/Anthony Munoz/Randy Moss type player that will be shelved for the year, and I'll listen.

I think that is really the crux of it. Our GM thinks he has found these players when he hasn't.

 

[deep9er]

It's pretty clear that we need contributions from as many guys as possible...as soon as possible. You tell me there is a Lawrence Taylor/Anthony Munoz/Randy Moss type player that will be shelved for the year, and I'll listen.

yep, the best way to manage the cap is get the best 53 + PS as possible. things change too fast in the NFL, mainly from injuries (in season) but also free agency (next season). So when players go down or leave, you're not waiting for an IR player to fill a spot.

The other issue we learned is these IR players take longer than a year. we think they'll be ready to go the following season, but none are. Carradine started to play THREE seasons later, and i believe Looney was the same? We all know Lattimore and Brandon Thomas never played a down.

not being unreasonable here, "ready to go" means relative to their draft position. Not expecting these guys to come in and be Pro Bowlers year 2. But based on our track record, none were ready to even play and the only two who did - Looney and Carradine - didn't come close to their draft spots.

 

[deep9er]

That's okay. Don't worry. Your posts are always respectful and makes for good debate which is all we have with this team right now.

That's what I have been saying in my previous posts is that I was okay with it then but not okay with it now because of our roster. If we had a roster like 2012 right now I wouldn't be opposed to drafting a couple of players that way. Not all but some. I don't think Baalke's ability to judge and drafting IR players are different when it comes to this discussion. When we evaluate the poor drafting results, I don't see it as a result of the IR strategy but rather it is Baalke's bad talent evaluation so I can't say drafting IR guys in the past was a failure or a mistake. I think Baalke's poor evaluation of players is the bigger issue. Lets look at one player for instance, Tank Carradine. He was a top college prospect and injured. Was stashed the first year. He came from a 4-3 system as a pass rushing end type player. The 49ers are a 3-4 team and had Tank put on weight and play inside where he has been a failure thus far. Now they have him losing weight and trying to play like he did in College. Is Tank a failure because he was an IR player or was he a failure because the 49ers tried to make a player something he is not?

Moving forward I would not employ the IR strategy and would also stop drafting these project players and because this roster needs proven players that could step in ASAP.

ok.