Anyone have any idea what the defense is going to be?

[Broncosballer32]

I mean we do not know if Wolfe is going to be there. We know obviously know Miller will not be there....for 6 games.

I am not impressed at all from what I am seeing out of Sylvester Williams. That could be me being a bit picky.

It is hard for me to envision what the starting DL is going to be and who the rotation guys are gonna be.


DEs: Wolfe? and Ayers
DTs: Vickerson and Knighton
Will: Woodyard or Paris Lenon?
Mike: Nate Irving or Woodyard?
Sam: Philips or Lenon?
LCB: Champ?
SS: Adams or Ihenacho?
FS: Rahim Moore? or Jammer?
RCB: DRC or Harris? Considering Harris was maybe the best on the team last year.....oh never mind.




Boy, that is pretty much the defense.

Broncos better average 35 points per game.

 

[kagey7]

Wow! Listening to all the "talking heads" I'm scared to death. The loss of Miller, to them, is devastating. Me - not sure I believe that. Cannot believe that the loss of one player, albeit a very special player, means we are doomed. Now if it was Manning - another story. Our offense can keep us in the game but adding 3 or more losses out of the first six games because of one player just doesn't seem to make sense to me.

 

[MrDoc420]

Wow! Listening to all the "talking heads" I'm scared to death. The loss of Miller, to them, is devastating. Me - not sure I believe that. Cannot believe that the loss of one player, albeit a very special player, means we are doomed. Now if it was Manning - another story. Our offense can keep us in the game but adding 3 or more losses out of the first six games because of one player just doesn't seem to make sense to me.

Von or not, I don't see us losing more than the two away games in our first 6 (we should still beat Dallas IMO, but the Giants are gonna be tough). Our home games are against Baltimore.....really hope we win something like 42-10, so all the Ravens homers can suck nut. After that we have the Raiders, Eagles and Jags at home. All very, very winnable games, Von or not.

I don't even think the offense will have to put up 30+ points either. Shaun Phillips is looking more and more like the key acquisition from the offseason, as he'll be asked to fill in and contribute right away. I really do like the idea of Trevathan at Will and Woodyard at Mike. If we do go Trev, Wood, Phillips to start the season, having guys like Johnson, Irving and Bradley (when back to healthy) off the bench should be a formidable group. Losing Von bites, but we should be ok.:boxing:

Something I was thinking about yesterday........how much are we missing DJ right now? I know dude screwed the pooch with his BS last year, but when he finally got on the field he played pretty damn good.

 

[cdumler7]

Well the nice thing is the Broncos have a lot of versatile players that can play all over the place to help try to generate some kind of pressure.

My guess is the base defense will be Ayers-Knighton-Vickerson-Wolfe...If nothing else this group should be tough to run on as this might be one of the biggest DL's in the NFL right now and all have graded out pretty well against the run throughout their careers. Linebackers are looking like Trev-Woodyard-Irving. This group to me sets up very nicely of Irving being very good against the run and the other two being very good at dropping back into coverage as Woodyard and Trev both graded out top 10 in the NFL as coverage linebackers last year. Secondary should be Champ-DRC/Harris-Ihenacho-Moore. Everything I have been reading on this group is they are causing a ton of turnovers so if nothing else the Broncos can play a bend but don't break defense and hope for a few turnovers.

Now our pass rush group will most likely be Phillips-Wolfe-Williams-Smith (this kid has been tearing it up in camp even coming off an ACL injury). Williams hasn't shown all that much in games although in the Seahawks game he did burst through the line and got held forcing Wilson out of the pocket when they were close to scoring a touchdown. Should have been a major play but refs missed the call and a lesser athletic QB wouldn't have escaped. I honestly think the Broncos can survive as with the schedule they are playing they are only playing one single offense that finished top 10 and that was Dallas.

 

[xBxtxDx]

I mean we do not know if Wolfe is going to be there. We know obviously know Miller will not be there....for 6 games.

I am not impressed at all from what I am seeing out of Sylvester Williams. That could be me being a bit picky.

It is hard for me to envision what the starting DL is going to be and who the rotation guys are gonna be.


DEs: Wolfe? and Ayers
DTs: Vickerson and Knighton
Will: Woodyard or Paris Lenon?
Mike: Nate Irving or Woodyard?
Sam: Philips or Lenon?
LCB: Champ?
SS: Adams or Ihenacho?
FS: Rahim Moore? or Jammer?
RCB: DRC or Harris? Considering Harris was maybe the best on the team last year.....oh never mind.




Boy, that is pretty much the defense.

Broncos better average 35 points per game.

My, aren't you just a ray of sunshine today. Quick question, why do you think the defense is going to be a 4-3? Since, well, the Broncos were in a Nickel formation way more than in a 4-3 defense, somewhere along the lines of greater than twice as often.

 

[Broncosballer32]

My, aren't you just a ray of sunshine today. Quick question, why do you think the defense is going to be a 4-3? Since, well, the Broncos were in a Nickel formation way more than in a 4-3 defense, somewhere along the lines of greater than twice as often.

Why, is there something where you have read where they will not be in a 4-3 base? Obviously they will be playing a hybrid, but it will be a 4-3.

Maybe you have not read about it, but Von Miller is out for 6 games, and they no longer have Dumervil.

That is 29 of their 52 sacks from last year. Hey TD can you give me a quick percentage? Is that 60 percent or closer to 55% of the total?

Point is they will be missed. Count on it. My concern is WHEN they are in a 4-3 (or 3-4) they have nothing that is rushing the passer. Meaning if they need to rush more than 4 rushers, there couldbe problems.

Once the team cannot provide adequate pressure with 4 rushers, then a 5th or a 6th rusher is needed. Once that happens then many of todays QBs light that up.

Check out Brady's stats against 5 man rushes for example.

Now, I will be wishful thinking like you, and hopefully things will line up with our wishful thinking. The problem with wishful thinking is our disappointments tend to be that much greater if you do not realize that our wishful thinking was not fitting with reality.

In reality missing the two main guys that provided the main part of the league leading sack production are missing and we will be feeling it as fans. Unless of course something shocks us and comes out of nowhere.

 

[TDs3nOut]

Well the nice thing is the Broncos have a lot of versatile players that can play all over the place to help try to generate some kind of pressure.

My guess is the base defense will be Ayers-Knighton-Vickerson-Wolfe...If nothing else this group should be tough to run on as this might be one of the biggest DL's in the NFL right now and all have graded out pretty well against the run throughout their careers. Linebackers are looking like Trev-Woodyard-Irving. This group to me sets up very nicely of Irving being very good against the run and the other two being very good at dropping back into coverage as Woodyard and Trev both graded out top 10 in the NFL as coverage linebackers last year. Secondary should be Champ-DRC/Harris-Ihenacho-Moore. Everything I have been reading on this group is they are causing a ton of turnovers so if nothing else the Broncos can play a bend but don't break defense and hope for a few turnovers.

Now our pass rush group will most likely be Phillips-Wolfe-Williams-Smith (this kid has been tearing it up in camp even coming off an ACL injury). Williams hasn't shown all that much in games although in the Seahawks game he did burst through the line and got held forcing Wilson out of the pocket when they were close to scoring a touchdown. Should have been a major play but refs missed the call and a lesser athletic QB wouldn't have escaped. I honestly think the Broncos can survive as with the schedule they are playing they are only playing one single offense that finished top 10 and that was Dallas.

Thanks for that post, CD. I find it very reassuring. Much more so than what I've seen of the first-team D -- with Von -- in the first two preseason games. : continues telling self "it's only preseason!" :

 

[xBxtxDx]

Why, is there something where you have read where they will not be in a 4-3 base? Obviously they will be playing a hybrid, but it will be a 4-3.

Have you read anything saying that the 4-3 will be our base D? Well, read something from anyone that matters on the topic, ie...Del Rio or John fox. The Denver Broncos spent 65% of their time in some form of the Nickel in 2012, also with the rules continuing to be in favor of the passing game and the ever increasing presence of 11 and 12 offensive formation (11 is 1 RB and 1 TE and 12 is 1 RB and 2 TE's), I would venture to guess that the Broncos will once again be in Nickel more than any other formation. So, if a team is in one particular formation 65% of the time, I would not call a formation that they are in a lot less their base formation (if they are in Nickel 65% of the time, that means they are in all other formations 35% of the time (100%-65%=35%)). So call me crazy if I do not consider the 4-3 as the "base" formation.

 

[KwitYerWhinin]

Why, is there something where you have read where they will not be in a 4-3 base? Obviously they will be playing a hybrid, but it will be a 4-3.

Maybe you have not read about it, but Von Miller is out for 6 games, and they no longer have Dumervil.

That is 29 of their 52 sacks from last year. Hey TD can you give me a quick percentage? Is that 60 percent or closer to 55% of the total?

Point is they will be missed. Count on it. My concern is WHEN they are in a 4-3 (or 3-4) they have nothing that is rushing the passer. Meaning if they need to rush more than 4 rushers, there couldbe problems.

Once the team cannot provide adequate pressure with 4 rushers, then a 5th or a 6th rusher is needed. Once that happens then many of todays QBs light that up.

Check out Brady's stats against 5 man rushes for example.

Now, I will be wishful thinking like you, and hopefully things will line up with our wishful thinking. The problem with wishful thinking is our disappointments tend to be that much greater if you do not realize that our wishful thinking was not fitting with reality.

In reality missing the two main guys that provided the main part of the league leading sack production are missing and we will be feeling it as fans. Unless of course something shocks us and comes out of nowhere.

I think the important thing is winning games. I think the Bronco's can still win even if they dont compete for number 1 in sacks. Aside from that, that is why the bronco's picked up Phillips who had only 1 less sack than Dumervil last season. I also think that a big part of getting sacks is being in a position to do so. No Dumervil and no Miller means that someone else will be there. They may not be as prolific as Miller, but for 6 games will hopefully be enough. Quanterus Smith was leading the nation in sacks last year in college before his acl injury, how do we know he wont be better than Miller in that respect ? How do we know that Wolfe wont break out for an extra bunch of sacks over his last years numbers. Maybe the combination of Vickerson and Knighton will force quarterbacks into our outside guys. there is alot of reason to believe that our defense will not just be fine, but may flourish. At the very least it will give some guys not named Miller a chance to go after the quarterback, and hopefully improve their overall game in that respect.

 

[xBxtxDx]

Maybe you have not read about it, but Von Miller is out for 6 games, and they no longer have Dumervil.

That is 29 of their 52 sacks from last year. Hey TD can you give me a quick percentage? Is that 60 percent or closer to 55% of the total?

Point is they will be missed. Count on it. My concern is WHEN they are in a 4-3 (or 3-4) they have nothing that is rushing the passer. Meaning if they need to rush more than 4 rushers, there couldbe problems.

Once the team cannot provide adequate pressure with 4 rushers, then a 5th or a 6th rusher is needed. Once that happens then many of todays QBs light that up.

Check out Brady's stats against 5 man rushes for example.

Now, I will be wishful thinking like you, and hopefully things will line up with our wishful thinking. The problem with wishful thinking is our disappointments tend to be that much greater if you do not realize that our wishful thinking was not fitting with reality.

In reality missing the two main guys that provided the main part of the league leading sack production are missing and we will be feeling it as fans. Unless of course something shocks us and comes out of nowhere.

You addressed this to me and why? Did I argue anywhere that Miller's absence would not hurt the team?

 

[Broncosballer32]

Have you read anything saying that the 4-3 will be our base D? Well, read something from anyone that matters on the topic, ie...Del Rio or John fox. The Denver Broncos spent 65% of their time in some form of the Nickel in 2012, also with the rules continuing to be in favor of the passing game and the ever increasing presence of 11 and 12 offensive formation (11 is 1 RB and 1 TE and 12 is 1 RB and 2 TE's), I would venture to guess that the Broncos will once again be in Nickel more than any other formation. So, if a team is in one particular formation 65% of the time, I would not call a formation that they are in a lot less their base formation (if they are in Nickel 65% of the time, that means they are in all other formations 35% of the time (100%-65%=35%)). So call me crazy if I do not consider the 4-3 as the "base" formation.

which ever, the "nickel" refers to the DB alignment. MEANING, there will still need to be 4 rushers that rush the passer. How that pass rush is implemented has little to do with the DBs.

The Broncos mainly rushed out of 4 down linemen with hands in the dirt and/or Von Miller standing up. Either way they mainly rushed 4 cause they could. Due to the fact that they had two dynamic rushers in Doom and Miller.

Now, are we as fans suppose to think that two others will have the type of production that will be equal to or better than 29 sacks?

Think about that.

Before you talk about coverage sacks, that is all but a myth in todays tootie fruity pass happy rules that the NFL has turned into. They cannot nip a WR or TE after 5 yards, and that means a plethora of WRs and TEs running free in the secondary. Hence the outrageous passng numbers over the last decade.

So, who are these pass rushers that will be making up for Miller's 18.5 and Dooms 11.

Again, I will be wishful thinking too.

 

[Broncosr0k]

broncosballer32,

Our first 6 opponents are ravens, giants, raiders, eagles, cowboys, and jaguars. The raiders and jaguars are likely going to be push overs, the eagles are a huge question mark. I think at worse we go 3-3 over that time and it is recoverable. Our defense may struggle with the ravens and giants but I don't think that will be a sign of a ruined season for them.

I think we will see some personnel shifts that may end up being permanent. Trevathan at will and Woodyard at mike will help cover the middle better than we have had in years. Putting Phillips in at sam is similar to what we has been known to play when he rushes the passer. I think Wolfe will make up some of Doom's production as he flashed last year. I expect later down the season that Quanterus Smith may push to be a pass rushing end (like Doom) if he lives up to the hype. On top of all that part of the interest in Sly Williams is that he can collapse a pocket. If he can make that happen I think we will be fine.

As for a pass rush without Von I think we can manage a something for six games. I am sure Fox and Del Rio are already working on alternatives like slipping in a few disguised blitzes. I am more worried about this team fizzling out in the playoffs again then actually making it to the playoffs. And as the ravens love to point out when talking about Flacco relying on defense, their defense was middle of the pack in statistics but they came home with a Lombardi trophy.

 

[Broncosballer32]

You addressed this to me and why? Did I argue anywhere that Miller's absence would not hurt the team?

I asked what we think the base defense will look like. The BASE defense is a 4-3 on this team. You saying the NICKEL package is the BASE is....well....ridiculous. Even if they run that 75% of the time, their base is a 4-3.

Also, I put down the projected starters over the first 6 games.

Now, I can HOPE or WISH for Quantreus Smith or HOPE and WISH that Ayers finally becomes something he has never been, or HOPE and wish Wolfe's neck is great and he will be a great pass rusher.

In fact I will be HOPING AND WISHING for those things.

Now, am I suppose to expect those stars to line up?

 

[Broncosr0k]

Now, am I suppose to expect those stars to line up?

Every week people hope and wish to hit the lottery. Powerball is a 1 in 190,000,000 chance.

I like our odds more here.

As someone put it earlier, it comes down to wins. I think we can get those. Some games might become shootouts but if we come away with a win at the end of the day I will be happy.

 

[TDs3nOut]

At the risk of trying to speak for BtD, I think that his point is that when we have five DBs we only have two LBs, so that isn't a 4-3.

 

[TDs3nOut]

Every week people hope and wish to hit the lottery. Powerball is a 1 in 190,000,000 chance.

I like our odds more here.

As someone put it earlier, it comes down to wins. I think we can get those. Some games might become shootouts but if we come away with a win at the end of the day I will be happy.

Agreed.

 

[Broncosballer32]

At the risk of trying to speak for BtD, I think that his point is that when we have five DBs we only have two LBs, so that isn't a 4-3.

Either way, that is not considered a "base defense."

 

[TDs3nOut]

Either way, that is not considered a "base defense."

True. Still, I think that his point is that it is the defense we play more frequently than any other, which seems to make the phrase "base defense" somewhat misleading. Personally, I just hope that we are able to stop the run well enough that teams are in passing situations on most second and third downs. Hasn't been that long since that wasn't the case. : shudders at those horrible memories :

 

[xBxtxDx]

Either way, that is not considered a "base defense."

Either way BB, it is lazy and incorrect to classify it as a "4-3" defense when it is not.

 

[Broncosballer32]

True. Still, I think that his point is that it is the defense we play more frequently than any other, which seems to make the phrase "base defense" somewhat misleading. Personally, I just hope that we are able to stop the run well enough that teams are in passing situations on most second and third downs. Hasn't been that long since that wasn't the case. : shudders at those horrible memories :

There are only two essential base defenses in the NFL. 4-3 and 3-4. That is it. Very rarely do teams start out in specialized defenses like a nickel or dime.


The forgotten art of running wuth a FB lead is all but done. I mean they are still there, but rarely do we see a good Howard Griffith clearing the way for a RB. Running consists of draws etc.

Shanahan went back to the stretch run thing. Of course he is not using a FB lead.

Anyway, with the short amoeba passing games, they often make up for a running game. I mean if it is as impossible as it is to stop all passing routes due to the tootie fruity rules, then they will continue to do it.

Until the game is purely a 7 on 7 drill.