A few things I have learned this season....

[Wounded Bear]

Number one, the Atlanta Falcons really suck. If we beat them that badly and then we get manhandled by the Dolphins and the Pats....then Atlanta really sucks.

Number two, Tom Waddle should not be an offensive coordinator. Run, run, run the ball is not the answer to the Bears offensive woes. Didn't work against the Pats (and won't work any other team) because this Bears team is built to pass, even with Jay Cutler on board.

Number three, speed or more specifically a 4.26 40 time does not make a good kick returner or a good football player for that matter. There are a lot of problems with our special teams besides the returner, but a super fast guy isn't going to solve the problems we are experiencing. Chris X. Williams should take a knee whenever you get the ball in the endzone.

Number 4, our defense sucks and Mel Tucker sucks, but....

Number 5, our offense, which is built to put up 30+ points per game, sucks worse due to all the money we put into it.

Number 6, Emery is mediocre at best. This isn't due to a bad game against the Pats, I've been thinking this for a while. Jay Cutler contract, Lamarr Houston contract, missing out on Michael Bennett and getting a washed up Jared Allen....not good. When Free Agency starts and you have some money to spend, be aggressive early on because if you wait, you WILL end up with bargain bin re-treads.... Sadly Jared Allen wasn't exactly a bargain, which, again, shows Emery's weakness as a contract negotiator.

Number 7, and lastly, a QB with a super strong arm does not necessarily make for a great QB. I keep on thinking: who has a stronger arm in the NFL compared to Jay Cutler? The answer is no one. As a matter of fact I don't think I've ever seen a QB with a stronger arm than Jay (maybe Favre? maybe Jeff George?). Then I start to think: who would I rather have as a QB than Jay? And about 10-15 names come to mind. So my take-away is a strong arm is not what you need for a good QB.



I wonder which one of these seven points people will want to talk about.....

 

[nebearsfan70]

I agree with every point you made. I definitely think this team's poor performance this season is not solely on the shoulders of Cutler, the DLine, LBs, etc, but everyone in the organization from top down. I am most disappointed with the offense. I suspected the D would have problems going into the season, but the offense? They just cannot produce.

The question is: How to fix these problems? Some posters seem to have indicated that the Bears problems can be fixed this offseason and that they can be competitive next season. I for one do not subscribe to this line of thought. I think it will take multiple drafts, several coaching changes, and several FAs to get their shit straight. We all know where the Bears need help, so there is no need rehashing that here. But, what bothers me the most is that the Bears were an up-and-coming team, I would look at them in a positive light. But they are going backwards with no direction. To make things worse, I suspect Trestman is our version of Schwartz and the front office will keep him around for a while. It may be years before we see a Bears team that is capable of asking the PO.

 

[anotheridiot]

Waddles point is you cannot become one dimensional. Tom Brady was two feet away from his running back, holding the ball out, and that was enough to hold our linebackers. You need to run so you can sell the play action.

Emery got too much credit for picking Long last year. Alshon previously. Both gave him a pass on Shea. Both could have also been busts. But cutting second and third round picks over the past two seasons are what hurt more and made it more important to go after overpaid free agents. Those second and third rounders should be moving up the depth chart in two years, not bagging groceries.
My other problem with Emery are these easily adjusted deals. Thats fine if you take the 4 million you are moving from cutler and use it for someone like a kick returner, but to just pass it around makes no sense. I have said allen was losing a step the last few years, now he is undersized and getting manhandled, but we got him because he agreed to this first year salary of 1.3 million (like Jennings) and move the dollars to the dead column again.

And yes, Emery is responsible for the coaching choices and it is becoming more and more evident why Trestman was in Canada. The rotating captains make it seem like kids soccer where they do not keep score. Rotate when you have a strong head coach, but this ad campaign poster boy for Ritolin needs a firey captain.

Honestly, the Dolphins were tied for first when we played them, they have a good team. Patriots have an exceptional team figuring it out. Giving up 21 in less than a minute is just too much to overcome for a team that shows no heart.

 

[AmericanTebowFan]

What's interesting is if you listen to the MASSIVE beating Cutler is taking from the media, you'd never know that he's actually having by far the best season of his career statistically with a 95.8 passer rating. His career rating is 85.5, and his career high was 89.2 last season. 95.8 is very, very good. 17 TDs to 8 INTs is a 2 to 1 ratio which is very good. About two thirds of the teams in the league would love to have the 17/8 that Cutler has right now. If the Bears were any good, a few bad INTs would NOT be able to bring down a season. If they had an average defense and ran the ball more with Forte to balance the offense, they'd probably be 6-2 right now. Cutler isn't the problem people.

 

[anotheridiot]

What's interesting is if you listen to the MASSIVE beating Cutler is taking from the media, you'd never know that he's actually having by far the best season of his career statistically with a 95.8 passer rating. His career rating is 85.5, and his career high was 89.2 last season. 95.8 is very, very good. 17 TDs to 8 INTs is a 2 to 1 ratio which is very good. About two thirds of the teams in the league would love to have the 17/8 that Cutler has right now. If the Bears were any good, a few bad INTs would NOT be able to bring down a season. If they had an average defense and ran the ball more with Forte to balance the offense, they'd probably be 6-2 right now. Cutler isn't the problem people.

The beating he takes is because he has the same pissy attitude if they win or they lose. I would rather have two more wins than good stats.

Maybe one of those two thirds of the teams will offer three first round picks for him.

 

[thunderspirit]

Cutler isn't the problem people.

You might as well talk to the wall — the haters aren't interested.

 

[NCChiFan]

It isn't that Cutler is or isn't the issue, Cutler is what he is, which is second tier. The people that have it wrong are those that keep thinking Jay is elite. He is not, never has been, but he isn't bad either. He is what he is. Unfortunately, his few mistakes have come in really really bad spots, but put Jay on the team that went to the SB, instead of REX, we win that game.

Emery is and isn't the problem. ALL GM's have their Shea's. Last years draft is looking real good for the Bears, in fact probably the best draft we have had in a decade plus. While our "bandaids" F/A haven't panned out, there are plenty of bright spots.

Which leads to where Emery has failed the Bears. Coaching. It is looking more and more like the issue behind this woeful effort is the coaching staff. Mel is done. Camillis is done. Trestman is on the hot seat. No one except maybe the odds makers in Vegas, saw the offense falling on its face like it has this season. The league appears to have figured Trestman's Offense out, he isn't fooling anyone.

 

[blh7068]

It isn't that Cutler is or isn't the issue, Cutler is what he is, which is second tier. The people that have it wrong are those that keep thinking Jay is elite. He is not, never has been, but he isn't bad either. He is what he is. Unfortunately, his few mistakes have come in really really bad spots, but put Jay on the team that went to the SB, instead of REX, we win that game.

Emery is and isn't the problem. ALL GM's have their Shea's. Last years draft is looking real good for the Bears, in fact probably the best draft we have had in a decade plus. While our "bandaids" F/A haven't panned out, there are plenty of bright spots.

Which leads to where Emery has failed the Bears. Coaching. It is looking more and more like the issue behind this woeful effort is the coaching staff. Mel is done. Camillis is done. Trestman is on the hot seat. No one except maybe the odds makers in Vegas, saw the offense falling on its face like it has this season. The league appears to have figured Trestman's Offense out, he isn't fooling anyone.

Good post. In addition to what you said, Ive also noticed the protections arent nearly as good this year- too many instances where theyre using 6 to block and it breaks down too quickly. Not enough time for the three downfield targets cant get open. IMO, a part of the reason Forte has been so involved in the passing game as a checkdown/safety valve.

 

[beardown07]

The main reason there have been so many checkdowns to Forte, is because of what Waddle said...teams are DARING us to run the fucking ball, and we are not doing it. And when we do, it is ill-timed or poorly executed.

Waddle is 100% right. Run the ball. Utilize your strength, which is your best player...Matt Forte.

You don't abandon the pass any more than you abandon the run, but run the ball. Smack someone in the fucking mouth. Exert your will on your opponent.

This will be particularly true again against our next opponent. Green Bay is giving up 156 yards per game on the ground.

Trestman needs to find a balance, and the players need to execute.

This will sound funny after what I just typed, but what I've said, doesn't necessarily translate into coming out and running 5 straight runs. Find a fucking rhythm for Christ's sake!? The constant "slow-starts", and just generally looking out of sync for major portions if not all of games is irritating.

Rally the fucking troops Trest, or your tenure here will be a short one.

 

[Wounded Bear]

It isn't that Cutler is or isn't the issue, Cutler is what he is, which is second tier. The people that have it wrong are those that keep thinking Jay is elite. He is not, never has been, but he isn't bad either. He is what he is. Unfortunately, his few mistakes have come in really really bad spots, but put Jay on the team that went to the SB, instead of REX, we win that game.

This. No one seems to want to look at where and when he makes his mistakes....




How many points have the opponents scored off his turnovers so far? Is it 44 points or there-abouts?

 

[Wounded Bear]

You might as well talk to the wall — the haters aren't interested.

You know I expect this type of shit from some posters, but you're better than this.

How is this adding to the conversation? Borderline trolling....

 

[thunderspirit]

You know I expect this type of shit from some posters, but you're better than this.

How is this adding to the conversation? Borderline trolling....

Borderline trolling?
This from the maker of the "QB's to target in the 2015 Draft..." thread?

 

[Wounded Bear]

Borderline trolling?
This from the maker of the "QB's to target in the 2015 Draft..." thread?

How is starting a "QB's to target in 2015 Draft" trolling? Please tell me.

Jay has turned the ball over time and time again to the point that opponents to score 40+ points off of those very turnovers....and we're only midway through the season. Not to mention he's 31 years old which is getting up there.

Every ESPN, Fox Sports, Sunday morning NFL show that speaks about troubled QB's usually go into how that QB is or is not "taking care of the ball." Jay has shown repeatedly that he doesn't take care of the ball.

During the draft, when teams are picking up QB's of the future, invariably the hosts will start discussing how it would be good for this young newly drafted QB (enter name here) to sit the bench a couple of years while learning from the starter.

So tell me how starting a thread on "QB's to target for the 2015 Draft" is trolling? Are all of those NFL pundits and/or NFL draft pundits "trolls" as well for talking about the same things I'm addressing here?

No it just makes good football sense to plan ahead and let a young newly drafed QB gets his footing before you feed him to the fire...

So I'm making football conversation with legitimate football points grounded in what good teams have done in the past and you call me a "troll" when all you have to offer is stupid comments like "haters gonna hate...."

Please tell me how that's not trolling and how that is adding to the conversation? Sorry, but that's just trollin'.

I mean, you could disagree intelligently, but you chose to troll and are choosing to troll.


Edit: I guess DaSuperFan is a troll for saying he'd like to take Marcus Mariotta. Wow, had no idea DaSuperFan was a troll....

 

[thunderspirit]

It does make good football sense to start looking at a successor to Cutler. Hyperbole and occasional ass-hattery aside, that's the sort of thread I'd normally expect from you — sensible (I know, perish the thought) and sound.

But then you follow it up with post #3 in your own thread:

...or come in immediately if Jay continues to shit the bed with INT's and/or fumbles.

I'm not one of those guys who makes every excuse in the book for Cutler. He's not perfect; he's not top tier. When he makes a bonehead decision, or an 'eff it, my arm is good enough' throw, I'm not afraid to call him on either. There were at least two guys he had open for plays in the first half of the Pats game that would've extended drives, instead of to whom he threw it.

But to suggest (or in some cases, flatly state) that the whole season's down the chute because of him is ridiculous. It's not. He's an easy target cos he's got a prickly personality with the media, instead of playing nice. And frankly, WB, you're better than that.

 

[Wounded Bear]

It does make good football sense to start looking at a successor to Cutler. Hyperbole and occasional ass-hattery aside, that's the sort of thread I'd normally expect from you — sensible (I know, perish the thought) and sound.

"Hyperbole and Ass-hattery," eh? Please expound on this statement.....Please provide examples....or is this just more trollin'?

I would love to discuss the merits or lack thereof concerning the posts and threads I've made in regards to Jay, but once again you have provided no substance in your posts.


But hey, thank you for proving my point that you have become a troll in regards to the subject of Jay Cutler's play. I'll consider your inflammatory comment above as just another example of your trolling efforts....

But then you follow it up with post #3 in your own thread:

...or come in immediately if Jay continues to shit the bed with INT's and/or fumbles.

Because that is exactly what would happen, Thunderspirit. You ever watch the NFL team with a highly draftd QB on the bench with the starter on the field fucking up before? Have you?

Typically, the newly drafted QB will sit the bench if the veteran is playing half-way decent ball. If the starting QB, the vet, turns the ball over repeatedly, if the turnovers result in 44 points for the opponents in just 8 games, you had better bet that there is a real good chance that the newly drafted QB will be called upon to come into the game.

I've seen it tons of times before, so that ain't trollin', it's an astute observation.

Call it "ass-hattery or hyperbole." I'll call it reality.

I'm not one of those guys who makes every excuse in the book for Cutler. He's not perfect; he's not top tier. When he makes a bonehead decision, or an 'eff it, my arm is good enough' throw, I'm not afraid to call him on either. There were at least two guys he had open for plays in the first half of the Pats game that would've extended drives, instead of to whom he threw it.

Weird, that's exactly the points I've been making....still don't understand why that's considered "ass-hattery" or "hyperbole" when I say it, but okay when you say it.

I mean, we're talking about a QB who has been in the league for 9 years now and has had time to adjust and learn the system....we're not talking about a first or second year QB here.


To be clear, these are the exact points I have been making to state my case - You can disagree and present your case, I've seen you do it before, but lately you have chosen to troll.

But to suggest (or in some cases, flatly state) that the whole season's down the chute because of him is ridiculous. It's not. He's an easy target cos he's got a prickly personality with the media, instead of playing nice. And frankly, WB, you're better than that.

Hmmm, nice try, troll. Please tell me where I have said "the whole season is down the chute because of Jay...." I created a seven point list regarding the teams problems, one of the points I made is about Jay.....

But hey, I understand. That's just you creating a strawman because you don't have a leg to stand on and trolls are known to create strawmen. Well played.


But back to the subject at hand....where is your outrage when I bash the defense? Where is your outrage when I trash Jonathan Bostic, Shea McClellin, Lamarr Houston, DJ Williams, Lance Briggs, or Jared Allen? How about when I trash Phil Emery, Decamillas, or Tucker?

Are they easy targets? Probably.

I trash 9 other members of the Bears, but when I dare to mention the sacred Jay Cutler you whine like a little pussy and say I'm trolling.....I'm engaging in "hyperbole" and "ass-hattery" - why is that?

Grow up. He's a part of the team and the team's performance - he is not above reproach. The fact that he's getting older and since the QB position is the toughest position to learn in the game of football is a perfect reason to start considering a replacement QB so he has time to adjust to the speed and complexity of the NFL. Common sense.

If you can't handle these simple facts, then you're just another fan who is unable to discuss the game objectively or intelligently.

 

[Dirk]

This. No one seems to want to look at where and when he makes his mistakes....




How many points have the opponents scored off his turnovers so far? Is it 44 points or there-abouts?

Your right, there are turnovers(the marshall hail mary) and then there are absolute game killing turnovers(The fumble TD).

He has had way to many of the second category out of his 12 total turnovers. Then again, with this D every turnover has that potential.

It's a nice confluence, Turnover prone second tier gunslinger meets a D that allows more TD drives than 3 and outs. Nice recipe for 3-5 and winless at home.

Makes me wonder if cutler is abandoning the "trestman way" because he feels pressure(from himself) to do it all because the other aspect of his team is horrid.

 

[Dirk]

I think offensively, trash the whole goddamn thing.

Constantly trying to make cutler into a prototypical pocket passing throw to a predetermined spot type QB has and most likely will always prove fruitless.

FFS, he destroyed us running the goddamn option in 2007. throwing on the move - both planned with bootlegs/rollouts, and improvisation are his strong suits. Why does it always seem that a broken play always seems to be escape and let the upper deck people read the lettering on the ball as it whips by?

Meh. Least we still have hockey to be cheerful about.

 

[thunderspirit]

"Hyperbole and Ass-hattery," eh? Please expound on this statement.....Please provide examples....or is this just more trollin'?

"Hyperbole and occasional ass-hattery" as in, your normal persona on the boards, not referring specifically to this particular case. It was, actually, meant as a light-hearted jab. Not meant as fightin' words. Or rather, more fightin' words.

I do not now consider, nor have I ever considered, Cutler above reproach.

When the dude fucks up (for instance, the Green Bay game), he deserves to be called on the carpet for it. At the same time, when he has a terrific game (San Fran game), he deserves kudos.

If that's outrage, then so be it.

 

[Wounded Bear]

"Hyperbole and occasional ass-hattery" as in, your normal persona on the boards, not referring specifically to this particular case. It was, actually, meant as a light-hearted jab. Not meant as fightin' words. Or rather, more fightin' words.

I do not now consider, nor have I ever considered, Cutler above reproach.

When the dude fucks up (for instance, the Green Bay game), he deserves to be called on the carpet for it. At the same time, when he has a terrific game (San Fran game), he deserves kudos.

If that's outrage, then so be it.

My apologies. I consider you and have considered you to be one of the better posters out there.

In my defense, I did praise Jay for his second half performance against the Niners as well as his game against the Falcons. I guess I felt like he was turning the corner, but of course, the road to consistency is a rocky one and evidently I have grown more frustrated with him than most.

My apologies to everyone on the board out there who feels that I am trolling the board in regards to Jay and/or our QB situation. My comments represent my honest feelings on the subject and I guess I will have to learn to express them in a more tactful manner.

 

[thunderspirit]