59-60 to 99-00 NBA 10 Ineligible Championship : Sushi vs tRobot

[CitySushi]

Good game @TheRobotDevil

 

[CitySushi]

I don't have a clue how I lost this one tbh.

In the first half, he has nice fits next to Iverson no doubt. But that team would be really at a disadvantage defensively. He has two 6'0" guards in his back court. Eric Snow and Aaron McKie helped Iverson immensely by guarding the bigger/stronger of the backcourt. He doesn't have that advantage with Hardaway. Offensively, my team gets buckets. I have 4 guys of the 5 in the first half who averaged over 20 a game in their careers, not including Glen Rice. And McAdoo on Sikma is as big of an advantage as any in this matchup.

Second half I don't even think it's close. West is better than Payton. Payton helps slow him down some, but I have two of the best big men passers of all time at the PF and Center positions. That's huge when my scoring comes from my guard/wings. Numbers wise those guys averaged 27.0, 22.7 and 24.8 PPG for their careers and Webber comes in at 20.7 for his career.

Webber over Williams is just as big of an advantage as Robinson over Walton, if not bigger. Thompson is better than Monroe. Wilkins is better than Pierce, West is better than Payton.

I just don't get it.

 

[Nosferatu]

I don't have a clue how I lost this one tbh.

More people voted for tRobot

 

[CitySushi]

More people voted for tRobot

 

[Shanemansj13]

I don't have a clue how I lost this one tbh.

In the first half, he has nice fits next to Iverson no doubt. But that team would be really at a disadvantage defensively. He has two 6'0" guards in his back court. Eric Snow and Aaron McKie helped Iverson immensely by guarding the bigger/stronger of the backcourt. He doesn't have that advantage with Hardaway. Offensively, my team gets buckets. I have 4 guys of the 5 in the first half who averaged over 20 a game in their careers, not including Glen Rice. And McAdoo on Sikma is as big of an advantage as any in this matchup.

Second half I don't even think it's close. West is better than Payton. Payton helps slow him down some, but I have two of the best big men passers of all time at the PF and Center positions. That's huge when my scoring comes from my guard/wings. Numbers wise those guys averaged 27.0, 22.7 and 24.8 PPG for their careers and Webber comes in at 20.7 for his career.

Webber over Williams is just as big of an advantage as Robinson over Walton, if not bigger. Thompson is better than Monroe. Wilkins is better than Pierce, West is better than Payton.

I just don't get it.

Do you think West averages 27 in Payton’s era? Payton is the best defensive PG of all-time. West was also a great defensive PG but he never guarded MJ in his prime, Stockton in his prime. Etc. jmo.

I just dont think Bing and Hudson are getting it done in the backcourt and they dont pose a threat to Hardaway or Iverson much defensively just Issel averaged 23 and 9 his career. Haywood averaged 20 and 10. Mcadoo averaged 22 and 9. Sikma was 16 and 10. I mean Iverson is the best player of this by far offensively. Not really one great defender from any sides in this first half. That’s how I see it. I do like Rice more than Shrempf was pretty underrated defensively. What sticks out most is AI in the first half even though I really dont like him in these mocks.

The 2nd half both greats lineups

 

[CitySushi]

Do you think West averages 27 in Payton’s era? Payton is the best defensive PG of all-time. West was also a great defensive PG but he never guarded MJ in his prime, Stockton in his prime. Etc. jmo.

I just dont think Bing and Hudson are getting it done in the backcourt and they dont pose a threat to Hardaway or Iverson much defensively just Issel averaged 23 and 9 his career. Haywood averaged 20 and 10. Mcadoo averaged 22 and 9. Sikma was 16 and 10. I mean Iverson is the best player of this by far offensively. Not really one great defender from any sides in this first half. That’s how I see it. I do like Rice more than Shrempf was pretty underrated defensively. What sticks out most is AI in the first half even though I really dont like him in these mocks.

The 2nd half both greats lineups

See that's the tough part about these mocks with legends vs today's pros. It's much like the Wilt vs. Shaq argument. On one hand Wilt didn't have to play every other day against Hakeem, Robinson, Duncan, Ewing, etc. But Wilt was also limited to his era's skill development. I think you can only really look at a player in how they did against competition in their era and then combine that with using today's skill development and technology to get better. I think West would absolutely be still an all time great, considering he's ranked by most in the top 10-12 players of all time.

I mean I think there's really only truly a couple handful of players throughout the NBA who's game would translate to any era and would still be dominant.

I guess what I'm saying is that if we give players in the NFL mocks the benefit of the doubt when it comes to this. Like in the Mocks we don't say well Merlin Olsen wouldn't be great because of the size of the O-Line's he faced in his era. I think it's gotta be somewhat consistent in at least the way we judge.

 

[wlk3]

See that's the tough part about these mocks with legends vs today's pros. It's much like the Wilt vs. Shaq argument. On one hand Wilt didn't have to play every other day against Hakeem, Robinson, Duncan, Ewing, etc. But Wilt was also limited to his era's skill development. I think you can only really look at a player in how they did against competition in their era and then combine that with using today's skill development and technology to get better. I think West would absolutely be still an all time great, considering he's ranked by most in the top 10-12 players of all time.

I mean I think there's really only truly a couple handful of players throughout the NBA who's game would translate to any era and would still be dominant.

I guess what I'm saying is that if we give players in the NFL mocks the benefit of the doubt when it comes to this. Like in the Mocks we don't say well Merlin Olsen wouldn't be great because of the size of the O-Line's he faced in his era. I think it's gotta be somewhat consistent in at least the way we judge.

For the record I never select older linemen... I select 300+ athletic guys no later than the 80’s era because I can’t select a guy 250 pounds and expect him to block Reggie White, Warren Sapp, Bruce Smith, LT etc... it burns me all the time but I just can’t do it... as for this match I’ll give you my breakdown in a reasonable timeframe lol I have to take dash to practice so I’ll do it then...

 

[Nosferatu]

For the record I never select older linemen... I select 300+ athletic guys no later than the 80’s era because I can’t select a guy 250 pounds and expect him to block Reggie White, Warren Sapp, Bruce Smith, LT etc... it burns me all the time but I just can’t do it... as for this match I’ll give you my breakdown in a reasonable timeframe lol I have to take dash to practice so I’ll do it then...

So, you are admitting to being part of the problem!

 

[wlk3]

So, you are admitting to being part of the problem!

I don’t know to which problem you’re referring to... but if you think a guy that is the same height and weight as in shape Charles Barkley is going to somehow block Reggie White when he gives him the hump I can’t help you... hell he doesn’t need to hump Forrest he can tuck him under his belly on his way to a sack...

 

[Nosferatu]

I don’t know to which problem you’re referring to... but if you think a guy that is the same height and weight as in shape Charles Barkley is going to somehow block Reggie White when he gives him the hump I can’t help you... hell he doesn’t need to hump Forrest he can tuck him under his belly on his way to a sack...

What you are missing is if players from the 60's had access to the same training and supplements as players of today they would be just as big. Players back then had to work jobs in the summer, it's a completely different game now.

 

[wlk3]

What you are missing is if players from the 60's had access to the same training and supplements as players of today they would be just as big. Players back then had to work jobs in the summer, it's a completely different game now.

I get that... my thing is that we project and I don’t hold it against others who go with older players, I just try to stay away from them... my biggest thing is the strength of those older linemen is they would lead the run, and not many here draft with running in mind first off... they pulled a lot and the way we play now there’s no toss it’s all power and that takes away from what made them great... that’s not me saying they maybe couldn’t adjust their game but would they be as great if you take away the thing that they excelled in which made them great...

 

[TheRobotDevil]

I get that... my thing is that we project and I don’t hold it against others who go with older players, I just try to stay away from them... my biggest thing is the strength of those older linemen is they would lead the run, and not many here draft with running in mind first off... they pulled a lot and the way we play now there’s no toss it’s all power and that takes away from what made them great... that’s not me saying they maybe couldn’t adjust their game but would they be as great if you take away the thing that they excelled in which made them great...

I’m guilty of this too tho. Especially with football but kinda in reverse. When comparing eras I have a hard time drafting some of the newer gen players that are picked a lot. That are kinda on the fragile side . Because I just don’t see them holding up. With the more physical players and style of play we grew up on. It’s more st definitely hard to gauge eras. But that jmo

 

[wlk3]

Dave Bing vs Tim Hardaway
Lou Hudson vs AI
Glen Rice * vs Detlef
Spencer Haywood vs Issel
Bob McAdoo vs Sikma

First half is tough... it’s sorta up and down for Sushi but I think it’s more slower paced for Devil... I think that with the bigs Devil has he can pound more and the shooting limits the help, mainly Issel... I think he allows some inside outside while Timmy can do some pick-n-pop with Sikma... while sushi seems more free flowing, I think his offense is very much based on up and down and when slowed I don’t see the spacing needed to keep up if only slightly... I give Devil the lead because he paces the game and his inside outside game is a little stronger than Sushi’s free flow...