49ers Acquire Center From Baltimore

[purguy12]

I agree this is insurance for Martin in case he fails at center.

 

[deep9er]

Fair enough. Kilgore probably can't play RG, though, so if they could have gotten Martin settled there now, it would have benefitted the team as a whole. If you had a good center, a backup center with great potential, and no real guard, it's entirely likely you'd try to backup center at guard. That's what I'd do, anyway.

wasn't Kilgore originally an OG in college? don't know if he can play RG or not now, but it shouldn't be 'foreign' to him?

yeah, in the larger picture don't have a problem trying out players. You do have to think ahead for potential injuries. With only so many game actives, versatility helps. But in Martin's case, he was a very good Center in college, and didn't he only play Center? You'd think he was projected to be our "Center of the future"? If he was not only a Center nor projected as our future Center, then i'll drop this discussion.

 

[deep9er]

Just a guess, but I think with the issues on the right side of the line, they were trying many different combinations during preseason and TC to see what might work best.

yeah, ok in the larger picture and more so for mid and later picks. But doesn't seem as logical for higher draft picks?

Here's another way to look at it....if you had a solid LG in the making and you just know he'll be the "no question' starting LG, would you "try him out" at another spots?

If you saw flashes of a solid Center and just know he's going to be your 'no question' Center, would you try him out elsewhere? i'd keep him a Center to accelerate his learning curve. Even if he's not the 'no question' starter to open this season, i'd give him as much reps as i can in preparation.

but apparently,"they have some questions about Martin"

 

[Pattersonca65]

yeah, ok in the larger picture and more so for mid and later picks. But doesn't seem as logical for higher draft picks?

Here's another way to look at it....if you had a solid LG in the making and you just know he'll be the "no question' starting LG, would you "try him out" at another spots?

If you saw flashes of a solid Center and just know he's going to be your 'no question' Center, would you try him out elsewhere? i'd keep him a Center to accelerate his learning curve. Even if he's not the 'no question' starter to open this season, i'd give him as much reps as i can in preparation.

but apparently,"they have some questions about Martin"

martin is not sure thing yet at any position. He still struggles at times and is inconsistent

 

[deep9er]

martin is not sure thing yet at any position. He still struggles at times and is inconsistent

yes, that was my initial comment in the first place.

if he was panning out as envisioned on draft day, there shouldn't be questions in year 2? Not saying he is supposed to be flawless today, but that the Coaches would KNOW he's going to be the Center. Maybe not game 1 starter, but he's destined to be our Center, sooner rather than later.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

wasn't Kilgore originally an OG in college? don't know if he can play RG or not now, but it shouldn't be 'foreign' to him?

yeah, in the larger picture don't have a problem trying out players. You do have to think ahead for potential injuries. With only so many game actives, versatility helps. But in Martin's case, he was a very good Center in college, and didn't he only play Center? You'd think he was projected to be our "Center of the future"? If he was not only a Center nor projected as our future Center, then i'll drop this discussion.

Kilgore was a guard in college, but he's smallish - with short arms - in the pros. He could play RG in a pinch, but it's not a great spot for him.

Martin started at guard at USC before moving to center. I believe he only moved to center in his final season after 22 starts at OG. I think Martin was taken to be our center of the future, but when we drafted him we hadn't seen much of Kilgore in action. Having seen Kilgore play - and play well - at center gives us flexibility to try Martin at guard.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

yeah, ok in the larger picture and more so for mid and later picks. But doesn't seem as logical for higher draft picks?

Here's another way to look at it....if you had a solid LG in the making and you just know he'll be the "no question' starting LG, would you "try him out" at another spots?

If you saw flashes of a solid Center and just know he's going to be your 'no question' Center, would you try him out elsewhere? i'd keep him a Center to accelerate his learning curve. Even if he's not the 'no question' starter to open this season, i'd give him as much reps as i can in preparation.

but apparently,"they have some questions about Martin"

This staff? Absolutely. <Cough> Alex Boone. <Cough>

At the time that we started putting Martin at OG, we thought Kilgore was coming back with a firm grip on the starting center job. If you have two good centers, but only one can play, wouldn't you put the other at OG and see if it works out?

 

[Crimsoncrew]

yes, that was my initial comment in the first place.

if he was panning out as envisioned on draft day, there shouldn't be questions in year 2? Not saying he is supposed to be flawless today, but that the Coaches would KNOW he's going to be the Center. Maybe not game 1 starter, but he's destined to be our Center, sooner rather than later.

This is one of the most unrealistic expressions of draft expectations I have seen. Deep, go look at a draft from 2011 or 2012. How many third and fourth rounders are even on active rosters right now? Even relatively early picks like those are basically 50/50 to stick in the NFL for more than three seasons, much less become solid or very good starters. Expecting a 20-year-old OL to come in, miss training camp as a rookie, get thrust into a starting role mid-year, and then answer all questions is absolutely ridiculous. Hell, Bowman was one of the great third-round picks in the history of this franchise, and he didn't answer many questions as a rookie at one of the easiest positions to transition into the league.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Figured I'd do a 2011 draft review for you, Deep. I picked that draft because it's far enough removed that we know what these guys are. I don't know what the results will be before I look right now. Third round review:

65. Terrell McClain DL, Panthers: played one season and then was cut. Out of the league.
66. Dontay Moch LB, Bengals: cut after two years, one spent suspended/on IR. Out of the league (OTL).
67. Nate Irving LB, Broncos: Played out his contract with the Broncos. Started four games in his third year and eight last year. Picked up by the Colts.
68. Kelvin Sheppard LB, Bills: Primarily a starter for the Bills, but they dealt him to Miami where he started 7 games in '13 and one in '14.
69. Rob Housler TE, Cards: Played out his contract, but never really developed as expected. Went to the Browns on a small, one-year deal.
70. Justin Houston DE/LB, Chiefs: One of the best defensive players in the league.
71. DeMarco Muray RB, Cowboys: A solid runner with injury issues until last year, when he broke out.
72. Martez Wilson LB, Saints: Stuck with the Saints for two seasons, picked up and then dropped by Raiders. OTL.
73. Stevan Ridley RB, Pats: Kind of up and down; at times a promising front-level RB, at others, wholly replaceable. He's on the Jets now, and Pats didn't push hard to keep him.
74. Ryan Mallett QB, Pats: Had some promise for awhile, but just got beaten out by Brian Hoyer.
75. John Moffitt G, Seahawks: Despite ample opportunities with the Hawks, never panned out. OTL.
76. Will Rackley G, Jags: Started several games for the Jags, but dealt with some injuries and was released in 2014. OTL (I think).
77. Jurrell Casey DT, Titans: Has been a starter since his rookie year and has played well.
78. Austin Pettis WR, Rams: Never panned out for the Rams, and just cut by the Chargers. OTL.
79. Leonard Hankerson WR, Skins: Never really panned out. Showed occasional flashes but has dealt with a lot of injuries. Word is he's playing well for the Falcons, but got to be considered a bust for the Skins.
80. Chris Culliver CB, 49ers: Got off to a rocky start, but developed into a very solid CB.
81. DeMarcus Van Dyke CB, Raiders: Lasted one year before getting cut. Bounced around a bit. OTL.
82. Vincent Brown WR, Chargers: Showed some potential but just never broke out. Cut by the Colts. OTL.
83. Jerrel Jernigan WR, Giants: Has hung around, got to give him that, but in four years he has 38 receptions for under 400 yards on a team that has needed a second or third WR.
84. Mason Foster LB, Bucs: A solid enough starter for a few years on a lackluster D, Foster fell out of favor when Lovie Smith came in and was recently cut by the Bears. OTL.
85. Jah Reid OT, Ravens: Hung around with the Ravens for a few years, started seven games, cut just recently and picked up by the Chiefs.
86. Allen Bailey DE, Chiefs: Started four games in his first three years before moving into a starting job, and seemingly playing well, last year.
87. Drake Nevis DT, Colts: Two undistinguished years with the Colts, bounced around a bit after that. OTL.
88. Johnny Patrick CB, Saints: Two years with the Saints, bounced around. OTL.
89. Shareece Wright CB, Chargers. Well we all know how this one turned out. Ironically enough, arguably one of the more successful picks from this round.
90. Curtis Marsh CB, Eagles: Two years with Philly, bounced around. OTL.
91. Akeem Dent LB, Falcons: Three years with the Falcons, traded to the Texans for TJ Yates, is a serviceable spot starter.
92. Joseph Barksdale OT, Raiders: Lasted one year with the Raiders, went to the Rams and was a replacement level starter, is currently on the Chargers.
93. Chris Conte S, Bears: Tolerable spot starter, but nothing special. Got through his first contract and signed a low-level deal with Bucs.
94. Kenrick Ellis DT, Jets: A decent rotational player with the Jets, just signed a one-year deal with the Giants.
95. Curtis Brown CB, Steelers: Never panned out for the Steelers, dealt with some injuries, now with Jets as a STs player.
96. Alex Green RB, Packers: Deep will probably know this one better than most. Two undistinguished years with the Pack before he was gut. Cut by Jets the next year. OTL.

Not doing comp picks, so that's it. I've got 13 guys who are out of the league entirely, a bunch who have done nothing, a couple solid guys, and one or two elite players. Of the solid guys, many took a few years to develop. The third round simply does not return the sort of immediate results that you seem to think it does, Deep.

 

[Pattersonca65]

No doubt Martin is still question mark. But that is almost expected with a 21 year old player on the oline. I think it takes awhile to get used to any oline position but I would imagine center would be the most difficult. Last year Martin only saw the field due to injury, and this is truly his first full season.

 

[deep9er]

This is one of the most unrealistic expressions of draft expectations I have seen. Deep, go look at a draft from 2011 or 2012. How many third and fourth rounders are even on active rosters right now? Even relatively early picks like those are basically 50/50 to stick in the NFL for more than three seasons, much less become solid or very good starters. Expecting a 20-year-old OL to come in, miss training camp as a rookie, get thrust into a starting role mid-year, and then answer all questions is absolutely ridiculous. Hell, Bowman was one of the great third-round picks in the history of this franchise, and he didn't answer many questions as a rookie at one of the easiest positions to transition into the league.

i repeat.....he should have flashed ability to play Center, not be a solid Center today.

if he was panning out as envisioned on draft day, there shouldn't be questions in year 2? Not saying he is supposed to be flawless today, but that the Coaches would KNOW he's going to be the Center. Maybe not game 1 starter, but he's destined to be our Center, sooner rather than later.

Any player who is 'developing' and destined to be good, will 'flash' their talent early on. Flash is NOT saying solid all around today, that is saying the talent can be seen, but needs a little more 'cleaning up'. So not disappointed Martin isn't a solid starting Center now, but all this shuffling around tells us he hasn't flashed enough talent for Center. that is all i said..."Coaches still have questions". Oh wait, YOU said it.

So don't know what you're going after now, except it is off tangent. You're only taking part of what i said, leaving the context. i did not say Martin should be as good as other draft picks in his class, or should be at the level they are now?

Why do you even draft Martin in Round 3? Back when he was drafted, did you think "Center of the future" like everyone else, or did you think "versatile linemen"? Be honest.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

i repeat.....he should have flashed ability to play Center, not be a solid Center today.

if he was panning out as envisioned on draft day, there shouldn't be questions in year 2? Not saying he is supposed to be flawless today, but that the Coaches would KNOW he's going to be the Center. Maybe not game 1 starter, but he's destined to be our Center, sooner rather than later.

Any player who is 'developing' and destined to be good, will 'flash' their talent early on. Flash is NOT saying solid all around today, that is saying the talent can be seen, but needs a little more 'cleaning up'. So not disappointed Martin isn't a solid starting Center now, but all this shuffling around tells us he hasn't flashed enough talent for Center. that is all i said..."Coaches still have questions". Oh wait, YOU said it.

So don't know what you're going after now, except it is off tangent. You're only taking part of what i said, leaving the context. i did not say Martin should be as good as other draft picks in his class, or should be at the level they are now?

Why do you even draft Martin in Round 3? Back when he was drafted, did you think "Center of the future" like everyone else, or did you think "versatile linemen"? Be honest.

I'm just going to go ahead and point out that you forgot to put this part in bold:

[t]here shouldn't be questions in year 2...

You said there shouldn't be any questions. That's absurd. Martin did flash at times. He had some good plays, and he had some bad plays. Again, about what you'd expect.

When he was drafted, I had no idea what Kilgore would do, so I thought center of the future. Having seen Kilgore play center well, having lost two good young OL, and facing the prospect of losing Boone next year, I'd love to see Martin excel at RG and move Kilgore back to C when he's healthy. That would be the best scenario for the longterm benefit of the team, and it looks like the team saw that too, as they tried another option at center so Martin could work at what could be his future position.