My Take On Penn State

[Wamu]

Well shit....you saying my opinion was unworthy when a thread full of other opinions including your own is "odd" as well. I did put a smily on it to let you know I really don't give two shits either way. I'm pretty sure SU wasn't a consideration.

I'm just trying to spur some thought and conversation.

I never once said your opinion isn't worthy. Not even sure why you said that. I just don't agree w/ you.

 

[jonvi]

You have to agree though that finishing 11-1 with wins over Oklahoma, Michigan and Wisconsin happened on the field and are the reason Ohio State made it into the playoffs though, right?

Do you not believe OOC games should be relevant when it comes to National Championship discussion?

Ohio State had a win over Oklahoma. Penn State had a loss to Pittsburgh, and a win over Purdue. They both finished 2-1 against Ohio State/Penn State, Michigan and Wisconsin. I'm not sure the head to head conference tiebreaker is enough to offset the Oklahoma vs. Pitt/Purdue games.

I hear you. I'm just not sure why a few years back when the committee dissed the B12 and specifically said they needed a conference championship game if they wanted a team in the NC playoffs.

Today it seems the opposite has worked out just fine for tOSU.

But your guys argument for tOSU is sound. Like many, I think PSU loses the tOSU game on a neutral field. I don't think it goes into OT.

 

[Milkshake]

I hear you. I'm just not sure why a few years back when the committee dissed the B12 and specifically said they needed a conference championship game if they wanted a team in the NC playoffs.

Today it seems the opposite has worked out just fine for tOSU.

But your guys argument for tOSU is sound. Like many, I think PSU loses the tOSU game on a neutral field. I don't think it goes into OT.

Records weren't the same this year - OSU's resume favored in both instances.

 

[jonvi]

I never once said your opinion isn't worth. Not even sure why you said that. I just don't agree w/ you.

Correct. What you said was....

Not according to the committee. It's your opinion they don't matter.

Back to your question....

The OP had an opinion and created a thread generating a conversation. You and I and others had opinions so we responded commenting on the OP which then became a discussion on whether the committee got it correct of which I had opinions.

And back to your response which was .....

Not according to the committee. It's your opinion they don't matter.

If mine and other opinions not agreeing with you or the committees inclusion of tOSU are the end all....why have the thread?

 

[jonvi]

Records weren't the same this year - OSU's resume favored in both instances.

This resume you speak of had a #2 tOSU playing an unranked PSU. If those resume's are the end all...then PSU should have been taken to the woodshed. We just need to go back to voting in two teams to play for the NC because the B1G is not being represented by the B1G champion.

That's a shame.

 

[Wamu]

Correct. What you said was....



Back to your question....

The OP had an opinion and created a thread generating a conversation. You and I and others had opinions so we responded commenting on the OP which then became a discussion on whether the committee got it correct of which I had opinions.

And back to your response which was .....



If mine and other opinions not agreeing with you or the committees inclusion of tOSU are the end all....why have the thread?

Not sure why we have a thread. Hell I'm just looking for some popcorn.

 

[jonvi]

Not sure why we have a thread. Hell I'm just looking for some popcorn.

Good luck in the playoffs. I'll be watching with ya.

 

[Milkshake]

This resume you speak of had a #2 tOSU playing an unranked PSU. If those resume's are the end all...then PSU should have been taken to the woodshed. We just need to go back to voting in two teams to play for the NC because the B1G is not being represented by the B1G champion.

That's a shame.

Ohio St laid and egg and it sprung PSU to a CC. The better team doesn't always win. Good luck to Penn St against USC.

 

[Wamu]

Good luck in the playoffs. I'll be watching with ya.

Thanks. I think it'll be a helluva game.

 

[jonvi]

Ohio St laid and egg and it sprung PSU to a CC. The better team doesn't always win. Good luck to Penn St against USC.

I really think the pac is weak. But the game is in their back yard so it should be a good one.

 

[jonvi]

that isn't going to solve anything, then teams 9-11 will be arguing they should be in...... it won't stop.

Sure they will. But they will be ignored due to the several losses. I would have liked to see last years Houston in the playoffs. With 8 teams they are in. I would like to see PSU in the playoffs because they beat a good tOSU team and have won their last 9 to include the championship game. An 8 team playoff, we get to see that.

 

[WizardHawk]

This year proves that CCG games are irrelevant in this playoff system and they should be re-evaluated. Maybe CCG's should go to a committee approach where the two actual best teams play in the game, similar to what you said? The problem is that conference like the B10 are just too diluted now. On any given year a team is going to miss playing 4 of the other B10 programs.

I stayed with the bolded because people are saying that about OOC SoS and CCG's and it isn't true about either.

There is no such mandate in the outcome of this ranking. Period.

UW is in entirely based on winning that CCG so it's not irrelevant, and had they barely won that game they might not have been in at all. It rightfully counts as more than just another game because it is a playoff like feel in a higher stakes game coming just before the bowl games. In UW's case it very much was a play in game and they had to look good doing it.

Ohio State is ONLY in because they played and beat Oklahoma in their out of conference games. Had they played a UW like OOC they are no higher than 7th with this exact same team. So you must either have a conference title or at the very least a solid resume that includes big wins over other highly ranked non conference teams. Fail to have both and you have no chance.

Penn State is ONLY out because they had a blow out loss on top of a loss to an unranked team. You can't have both no matter if you are a CCG winner or not.

Michigan had Colorado on their OOC slate, but lost two games and didn't make their CCG. Can't do both.

We didn't learn anything more from this process than do the best you can and win every game you have in front of you or risk not being in the final 4. Do everything you can to add as much strength as will be needed to overcome any loss or other teams with better SoS. If your SoS sucks you better hope to run the table and pray you aren't knocked out anyway. If you add better OOC games you can have a trip up somewhere and still have a chance, even not making your CCG, but it still takes a special team to get that credit.

 

[jonvi]

So Pitt and Michigan didn't prove it on the field against Penn St?

That same pitt team beat Clemson as well. Neither are a bad loss. Cap it with a win over tOSU and a B1G championship....

There's definitely a case for PSU.

 

[uncfan103]

Sure they will. But they will be ignored due to the several losses. I would have liked to see last years Houston in the playoffs. With 8 teams they are in. I would like to see PSU in the playoffs because they beat a good tOSU team and have won their last 9 to include the championship game. An 8 team playoff, we get to see that.

This would be the second year in a row with the B1G getting three teams into an 8 team playoff had we had an 8 team playoff the last three years.

And, even with an 8 team playoff this year, we still wouldn't get to see Southern Cal who is playing arguably the best football out of anyone right now, except for Alabama.

 

[Tharvot]

1. I think the committee got the best 4 teams in so the system worked.
2. Penn State will be happier and more competitive in the Rose so it's not a bad deal for them.
3. What is broken is the system where conferences split into division as CCG's have proven rarely are the best 2 teams in and leagues are often unbalanced.

It's time to do away with conference divisional play and just take the 2 best teams in the conference for the CCG.

This year Michigan and Ohio State would have more than likely played again for the conference title but that would have been the right decision.

In a perfect world, you could go back and split everything up into 8 10-team conferences and go from there. But, we're in a money driven world now and there's no going back. Best we might be able to do is 4 super-conferences with 16-20 teams.

I don't see how many PSU fans can be too upset about the way things went down. They far exceeded their expectations this season, won the conference, and they're going to the Rose Bowl to play USC. That's a hell of a year for a team that probably went into the year thinking 8-4 was a likely outcome.

 

[PIBuckeye]

That same pitt team beat Clemson as well. Neither are a bad loss. Cap it with a win over tOSU and a B1G championship....

There's definitely a case for PSU.

A case? sure, not a strong enough one.

A few points.

1. at the end of the day, PSU had 2 losses. Wash. and OSU only had 1. the committee sent a strong message that LOSSES are one of the biggest things they take into account. no matter how much some people try to give PSU a pass and forgive the PITT loss, it isn't going away.

2. PSU did not do enough on Saturday to send a glaring message to the committee that they should be in. Let's be honest. They won the game. Great. Great comeback. you won by 1 TD. But a comeback like that is kind of a double edge sword, because if you were down 28-7, it also says that in reality, they played like shit for 1/2 the game. (during the OSU game, they played like shit for 3 quarters!) you can't do that against teams like Alabama, Washington, or Clemson. OSU's message to the committee in '14? They beat a better Wisconsin team 59-0. oh yea, with the 3rd string QB.

 

[jonvi]

This would be the second year in a row with the B1G getting three teams into an 8 team playoff had we had an 8 team playoff the last three years.

And, even with an 8 team playoff this year, we still wouldn't get to see Southern Cal who is playing arguably the best football out of anyone right now, except for Alabama.

I know you can't get them all in. There isn't enough weeks to expand beyond 8 teams IMO.

But when discussing cfb moving to a playoff system, I never considered a team that didn't qualify for their conference championship would advance to the playoffs over the conference champ they lost to during the season.

That just didn't cross my mind.

 

[Tharvot]

No....OOC games should not be used to determine a conference champion. Only the conference games should count when determining a conference champion. And when a team is unable to make it to the conference championship game, they watch the playoff's on tv or buy a ticket to the game(s).

The BCS just rendered the regular season and championship games to be nothing more than an exhibition and we are back to the eye test or a popularity contest.

That only makes sense if you play everyone in the conference. Divisional record should be the first determinant if its a conference split into 2 divisions. After divisional, I'd say you go with the highest ranked team. You could go conf record and overall record, but those will likely be played out in how high or low the team is ranked anyhow. Obviously, if just 2 teams are tied, you go with head to head.

 

[uncfan103]

That only makes sense if you play everyone in the conference. Divisional record should be the first determinant if its a conference split into 2 divisions. After divisional, I'd say you go with the highest ranked team. You could go conf record and overall record, but those will likely be played out in how high or low the team is ranked anyhow. Obviously, if just 2 teams are tied, you go with head to head.

I was talking to someone about this the other day. I think when it comes to who wins the division and gets to play in the CCG, games against the other division shouldn't count. I think in case of a tie, games against the same non-divisional teams can be included and head to head should break the tie.

 

[Tharvot]

I was talking to someone about this the other day. I think when it comes to who wins the division and gets to play in the CCG, games against the other division shouldn't count. I think in case of a tie, games against the same non-divisional teams can be included and head to head should break the tie.

common opponents. makes sense to me.