See ya, Brock

[58crash]

all that said I think he stays a Broncos for the reasons I stated we actually develop players

 

[R.J. MacReady]

How can you leave that defense.

Does he know you need more points that the other team to win a game?

 

[MrDoc420]

The thing that bothered me about Oz in the Chargers game was he seemed unable to bring the team out of their funk. Manning stepped in and it was like an entire new team took the field. A good, strong leader should be able to bring the team back up on his own. The Broncos needed it, and a LOT was riding on it. Was it too much pressure? I don't know, but if it was that's a bad sign. Was it inexperience? Maybe, and maybe that's correctable. Can Oz develop more into a complete passer, or will he be figured out and be done in this league? These are questions that will determine whether Oz is Denver's next great QB, or a journeyman. 4TD's against Pittsburgh was nice to see. The comeback against New England was great. The Pittsburgh 2nd half, the Raiders game, and the Chargers game.....not so much. Just too many questions remain in my mind for me to want to pay him a ton of money. He needs to prove he can lead this team consistently before getting paid the big contract.

Same thing happened when Brock took over after Manning's complete flub against Kansas City. This whole contract situation is very dicey because we don't have a really big sample size to go off of with Osweiler, and of course we could overpay. I just know that when I saw him play last year, for the most part he looked like a seasoned QB in an offense he was more than comfortable with, and as for all the talk about him not seeing the field or having issues with reads.......I didn't see that. Matter of fact, I specifically remember talking about that during 1 of his 7 games is how he's sliding well in the pocket, keeping his eyes downfield going through his reads.

I'm of the mind we need to push as much as we can to get him back, and I think this $45 mil deal w/God knows how much guaranteed will be enough to bring him back. Although he's "testing" FA, he's given every indication that he wants to come back, and from what cd said above; the beat writers around town still feel he's going to be back. We spent the time grooming the kid to be our future. Now pay him and let's get the ball rolling toward another ring.

 

[cdumler7]

Kizla today was talking about why he might be playing some hardball in that it does sound like he was pretty upset about being benched. Didn't feel like he earned being benched in the Chargers game and then having Manning take over from there. He obviously handled the media well after the benching but I would think common sense says that he would be upset about that. I think the Broncos and him though can come to some common ground and move forward from such an event. Thankfully we do have a players coach in Kubiak that I think can smooth thigns over.

 

[Broncos6482]

Kizla today was talking about why he might be playing some hardball in that it does sound like he was pretty upset about being benched. Didn't feel like he earned being benched in the Chargers game and then having Manning take over from there. He obviously handled the media well after the benching but I would think common sense says that he would be upset about that. I think the Broncos and him though can come to some common ground and move forward from such an event. Thankfully we do have a players coach in Kubiak that I think can smooth thigns over.

I understand being upset about being benched, especially in the Chargers game when basically no one on offense was playing well. And I appreciate the fact that Osweiler handled it as professionally as possible. A situation like that could have easily split the team and cost them the season, but Kubiak, Manning, and Brock deserve major kudos for not allowing that to develop and going on and winning the Super Bowl.

The thing that worries me with Brock is tying up a lot of money in a guy that may or may not be very good. Seven games is a tiny sample size, and there are plenty of examples of guys playing well for a handful of games and then stinking it up once defenses get some tape on them. Josh McCown is a recent example of what I'm talking about.

Brock really did have some great moments: the comebacks against the Patriots and Bengals (the Bengals game he basically put together 3 game winning drives: one ended in a CJ fumble, one ended in a missed field, and the other an overtime field goal) are examples of the highs. His play against the Raiders and the second half of the Steelers game, however, leave a whole lot to be desired. What's even more concerning is that he was sacked far more frequently than Manning was behind the same line. That tells me he's not getting through his progressions quickly and he's holding the ball too long.

The thing is, I don't know if Brock is a better qb going forward than RG3, Kaepernick, Daniels, or Fitzgerald. What I don't want to see happen is the Broncos tie up a lot of money in Brock just because that's what the market dictates, only for him to not be anything more than an average qb. That's the recipe for consistent mediocrity.

 

[jdlewis777]

So Brock at 17mil is the starting point for Von... based on Houston contract.

Id honestly rather have Schaub and another 10mil caliber FA player plus a 3rd than Brock. Thats just my own view. The franchise has seen him everyday, if they believe in him fine, but if you have serious doubts, the risk is that you derail the D and hamstring efforts to rebuild the OL and honestly i dont think that will help his growth and development and raises the distinct possibility he fails. Even Luck struggled without proper OL play. I trust Elway, concern that his own ego might get in the way of this particular evaluation but he has largely been a good gm to this point... few mistakes.. mostly in draft trades... show he isnt without error.. but who is?

 

[WalkerBoh]

Same thing happened when Brock took over after Manning's complete flub against Kansas City. This whole contract situation is very dicey because we don't have a really big sample size to go off of with Osweiler, and of course we could overpay. I just know that when I saw him play last year, for the most part he looked like a seasoned QB in an offense he was more than comfortable with, and as for all the talk about him not seeing the field or having issues with reads.......I didn't see that. Matter of fact, I specifically remember talking about that during 1 of his 7 games is how he's sliding well in the pocket, keeping his eyes downfield going through his reads.

I'm of the mind we need to push as much as we can to get him back, and I think this $45 mil deal w/God knows how much guaranteed will be enough to bring him back. Although he's "testing" FA, he's given every indication that he wants to come back, and from what cd said above; the beat writers around town still feel he's going to be back. We spent the time grooming the kid to be our future. Now pay him and let's get the ball rolling toward another ring.

You must have watched a different Kansas City game.

 

[cdumler7]

I understand being upset about being benched, especially in the Chargers game when basically no one on offense was playing well. And I appreciate the fact that Osweiler handled it as professionally as possible. A situation like that could have easily split the team and cost them the season, but Kubiak, Manning, and Brock deserve major kudos for not allowing that to develop and going on and winning the Super Bowl.

The thing that worries me with Brock is tying up a lot of money in a guy that may or may not be very good. Seven games is a tiny sample size, and there are plenty of examples of guys playing well for a handful of games and then stinking it up once defenses get some tape on them. Josh McCown is a recent example of what I'm talking about.

Brock really did have some great moments: the comebacks against the Patriots and Bengals (the Bengals game he basically put together 3 game winning drives: one ended in a CJ fumble, one ended in a missed field, and the other an overtime field goal) are examples of the highs. His play against the Raiders and the second half of the Steelers game, however, leave a whole lot to be desired. What's even more concerning is that he was sacked far more frequently than Manning was behind the same line. That tells me he's not getting through his progressions quickly and he's holding the ball too long.

The thing is, I don't know if Brock is a better qb going forward than RG3, Kaepernick, Daniels, or Fitzgerald. What I don't want to see happen is the Broncos tie up a lot of money in Brock just because that's what the market dictates, only for him to not be anything more than an average qb. That's the recipe for consistent mediocrity.

I completely agree with all of this. There are things to like about Brock but not enough to do a long-term or big money commitment. It is why I think Elway said that this won't be Osweiler's big contract. He needs to show more before he should get paid like the top guys. Elway has shown that he pays players based on production not potential.

I would also say that while I do think they will get something done there is probably no other GM in the NFL in such a safe position as that of Elway to just walk away from the situation. I mean there is a reason that we say "In Elway we trust." Doesn't mean everything he has done has been perfect but he has built up enough capital to trust that he has a plan in place and whoever they bring in they have scouted like crazy and trust that they can function well in this system. Just have to wait and see how the next 24 hours pan out. This truly is a crazy time of year.

 

[Draft Crazy]

Brock wasn't at Manning's retirement party

 

[Mondo Jay]

I would rather not change my Avatar. It is undefeated.

 

[CEH]

Brock wasn't at Manning's retirement party

I wonder since they are in negotiations, his agent recommended he stay out of the building . I'm sure if he showed up , he would be pestered by Elway and co without his representative there. I bet Brocks had a personal convo / text with Manning.

Like Mingo says, would not read too much into it.

At least this would be my thinking

 

[MrDoc420]

You must have watched a different Kansas City game.

How do you mean? We were getting slaughtered 29-0 I believe when Manning got benched. Oz came in and sparked us in the 2nd half, we started moving the ball and at least put up some points.

 

[Broncos6482]

How do you mean? We were getting slaughtered 29-0 I believe when Manning got benched. Oz came in and sparked us in the 2nd half, we started moving the ball and at least put up some points.

Yeah, that's not exactly how that game went down. It was 22-0 when Brock came in, and the offense promptly went 3 and out. In his second series, Brock drove the Broncos only to see the drive end with an end zone interception. The Cheifs then had an 80 yard touchdown pass to go up 29-0. Then at this point the Broncos drove for a touchdown with the Chiefs playing much more conservatively and subbing a lot.

Although he was certainly better than an injured Manning at that point, it's not really comparable to Manning replacing Brock in the San Diego game.

 

[WalkerBoh]

How do you mean? We were getting slaughtered 29-0 I believe when Manning got benched. Oz came in and sparked us in the 2nd half, we started moving the ball and at least put up some points.

That was in the 4th quarter after the KC defense decided the game was over. Not even close to being the same thing:

 

[CEH]

If I'm Brock maybe I go to Houston and follow Weeden, TJ Yates, Hoyer and teh list of crappy QBs even though Yates won a playoff game just like Tebow and play the with #3 defense instead of playing in Denver following Manning.

 

[randymon]

I say you can color Brock gone to Houston right now. Like mentioned in above posts, hurt feelings, following Manning, fresh start, mo money, etc. You da man Siemiean!!!!!

 

[58crash]

Broncos6482 dead on .. this is were we should talk about the cry baby ..

 

[Wheat]

fuck'em.

he doesn't want to be in Denver, then let his ass go.

does he really think he will have the success in Houston that he was ready to have in Denver?

I think not....

 

[58crash]

fuck'em.

he doesn't want to be in Denver, then let his ass go.

does he really think he will have the success in Houston that he was ready to have in Denver?

I think not....

This...^ they have threw away how many QB's .. They have no clue as to how develop a QB .. One in 14 years and that guy that developed that QB is on this staff ...

Mallet was hammered there and IMO the same QB

 

[58crash]

Season(s) Quarterback(s) References
2015 Brian Hoyer (9) / Ryan Mallett (4) / T.J. Yates (2) / Brandon Weeden (1) [1]
2014 Ryan Fitzpatrick (12) / Ryan Mallett (2) / Case Keenum (2) [2]
2013 Matt Schaub (8) / Case Keenum (8) [3]
2012 Matt Schaub (16) [4]
2011 Matt Schaub (10) / T.J. Yates (5) / Matt Leinart (1) [5]
2010 Matt Schaub (16) [6]
2009 Matt Schaub (16) [7]
2008 Matt Schaub (11) / Sage Rosenfels (5) [8]
2007 Matt Schaub (11) / Sage Rosenfels (5) [9]
2006 David Carr (16) [10]
2005 David Carr (16) [11]
2004 David Carr (16) [12]
2003 David Carr (11) / Tony Banks (3) / Dave Ragone (2) [13]
2002 David Carr (16) [14]


I see a pattern here ..Smell that smell ..QB rot in the air .