See ya, Brock

[jdlewis777]

I wonder if Elway might not be the right thing for RGiii. Supposedly, Shanahan still likes RGiii and Elway who himself dealt with strained relationships with Reeves and even Shanahan at the end might be able to get his head on right. Kubiak wouldn't ask him to run, but would use his mobility on naked bootlegs, which would be a compromise I think he'd be ok with. This is totally aside from Brock, I have no idea where that goes, but if we did have to move on I could actually see him working out. Problem with RGiii is not smarts, it's been an owner fed ego that clouded his progression and compromised his development. Some would say the same was true of Elway in his youth.

On oz I still believe we'll just pay him. Great friends with his son Jack and family from ASU days, first high prospect qb Elway took as gm passing over a potential hall of famer in Wilson (has ability to get there not saying he will) to take this kid... I think he trapped himself.

 

[Malibu]

Maybe so on Brock but other than Fritz, I sure like to know who has impressed you more that has any better resume out there. I completely agree that Brocks sample size does not warrant confidence or a big payday but to say any of the other candidates have shown anything at all in their last few years is wrong. The pickings suck,let's face it. At least Brock knows the system,the coaches and the players. It just cracks me up that some think you can throw RG or Kap or Daniel's into a new system,New wrs/ offense/coaches,etc and they would give Denver a better shot than Brock to repeat. Neither one of those guys ( maybe Daniel's ) would even beat Simian out. I'm open to " let's bring them in for a 12 pack though.

Things that Brock needs work on which is listed by some but yet some of those same people want RGIII who may be cheaper but can't read a defense, panics at times and we all know can't stay healthy and there is to much drama and media circus around RGIII but yet some Broncos fans want him as the Broncos QB. Imagine RGIII as the starter for the Broncos trying to repeat. The media would be insane plus wthe Broncos don't need RGIII's dad getting involved with his big mouth. I get it the Broncos shouldn't overpay for Brock and that's Elway's judgement but does anyone really believe Kapernick, RGIII, or Chase Daniel is an upgrade? They are farther behind when it comes to a QB then Brock is in my opinion or have regressed as a QB.. RGIII hasn't played in how long? Kapernick was benched for Gabbert and Chase Daniel has done less then Brock in the NFL. So people be careful for what you wish for. I agree I'm not sold on Brock but I'll take him over any other option that has been mentioned. Peace.

 

[Malibu]

I quit reading some of peoples posts when I read ESPN. ESPN is pure garbage, I only watch it for games. I'm sure Houston and many other teams are interested. Just common sense and I don't need ESPN to tell me that. Garbage brainwashing network. Peace.

 

[WalkerBoh]

Things that Brock needs work on which is listed by some but yet some of those same people want RGIII who may be cheaper but can't read a defense, panics at times and we all know can't stay healthy and there is to much drama and media circus around RGIII but yet some Broncos fans want him as the Broncos QB. Imagine RGIII as the starter for the Broncos trying to repeat. The media would be insane plus wthe Broncos don't need RGIII's dad getting involved with his big mouth. I get it the Broncos shouldn't overpay for Brock and that's Elway's judgement but does anyone really believe Kapernick, RGIII, or Chase Daniel is an upgrade? They are farther behind when it comes to a QB then Brock is in my opinion or have regressed as a QB.. RGIII hasn't played in how long? Kapernick was benched for Gabbert and Chase Daniel has done less then Brock in the NFL. So people be careful for what you wish for. I agree I'm not sold on Brock but I'll take him over any other option that has been mentioned. Peace.

But would you break the bank to keep Osweiler? I'm not sure there are many on here that would rather take one of the QB's mentioned over Oz. The bulk would rather KEEP him on the roster. However, they mainly don't want to overpay to keep him. That's a possibility, one that can't really be ignored.

So what's your solution to an Osweiler that costs us $15-17 MM per year to keep? Or do you think he is worth that much? I don't think he is.

 

[GeekSportsFan]

I think he will get better at it but I'm skeptical how much better. There are things I love about Osweiler and things that just scare the heck out of me...

Things I like
1) Seems to have the respect of his teammates and coaches
2) He actually does have a nice arm. I loved watching some of his throws
3) The big moments in the game don't seem too big
4) Handled this entire season with some of the best class I have seen

Things I don't like
1) It does seem if his first option is not open he panics and unfortunately takes a ton of hits because of it
2) Lack of touch on some of his throws
3) Can get flustered when things are not quite going right
4) Not quite the runner you would like...His size makes him clumsy in my opinion leading to some awkward moments
5) Pocket presence seems to not be there
6) Accuracy can come and go

Now some of that is fixable and some of that will get better with more actual game experience. I think he is the type of guy that can be a 10-year starter in this league. I'm just not sure I see a top-10 type QB. I see more of the ranked in the 12-20 area almost every year.

On the things you don't like, I think #'s 1, 2, 3 and 5 are definitely fixable with experience and coaching. I thought he did a very nice job coming in last year, and I think it would definitely be worth the Bronco's time and effort to give him a shot at a year as a full time starter. There just aren't any franchise type QBs out there right now, and RGIII is far too injury prone to risk signing.

 

[BigKen]

A player is worth what someone is willing to pay. Dwayne Allen just got a bigger contract than Rob Gronkowski.
Would you rather have a QB that you know can run your offense who costs $15M a year or take a chance on QB who your not sure of for $10M?

In this day and age, the money is critical, but the players are more so.

You can argue all day about this, but is Von Miller more important and more valuable than OZ? Would the defense be nearly as good without him as the offense would be without OZ? Von was the MVP of the Super Bowl and OZ was a sideliner. Do you honestly think Johnny Manziel or RG III would be better than OZ? Or Hassselback? Or Geno Smith?

 

[Broncosr0k]

There are very few, if any, that are actually arguing that we will bring in another QB and expect rainbows and sunshine to come flying out of Elway's butt. No one is arguing to dump Brock and bring in someone else. We are simply debating at what point does Brock's demands exceed what is possible or wise for the broncos? And if he is deemed too costly where could we go. Both of those concepts are being talked about at Mile High so please stop acting as if they are asinine.

To the strong Brock supporters, say we sign him to a 15-20 million deal for 3 years and he tanks. Are you still going to be super excited that we are going to have to lose other talent to keep him? We are talking about more than just this year if we keep Brock. Signing him has huge ramifications to how this roster looks in 2-3 years. So it is a big decision that merits some thought.

Brock has shown both good and bad. Based on 7 games are the broncos willing to shell out the money for the next few years.

As for the argument that no one we bring in will play better than Brock. That is complete and utter bullshit. You have no way of knowing because we only have see him in 7 games. He may get better or he may get figured out. No way to tell which is why the whole salary deliberation is happening.

 

[cdumler7]

@Broncosr0k nailed it. I think most if not all of us would love to keep Brock as our QB but not at the cost that seems to be thrown out lately now that we near FA. Brock at $10-12 million with little guarantees sounds awesome and I would take that in a heart beat. The problem is that this is a team friendly idea instead of a QB friendly idea. So I understand when Brock is hearing that 4-5 teams are interested in him and that a bidding war could start where we are talking $15-20 million a year with lots more guaranteed money makes sense for him to go. the Broncos though are a bit cap strapped. They have to be smart with their money and overpaying for a QB is a quick way to build a mediocre team.

Just look at it this way...17 QB's in the NFL are making $17 million or more a year. Of those 17 QB's only 5 of them made the playoffs this past year in Rodgers, Wilson, Roethlisberger, Newton, and Smith. Teams that overpay at the QB position are the ones that find themselves struggling to be relevant. Sure many of these teams finished in that 6-10 to 9-7 range but that is where they stay. No chance to really get the top Draft picks yet too cap strapped to get the FA's needed to get over the hump. This is why this is such an important discussion. I like Brock but there has to be a cut off...Now obviously for each of us that is a different number. For me $14 million a year is pushing it.

 

[MileHigh64]

I'm a Brock supporter that says get him signed for 14 million or less. If the price goes up to 15 million and beyond, I would have strong reservations. I think most of us all agree on that. I was simply pointing out before that several have gone from "Brock looks great" to "he didn't look that good". I thought he played well and really hope that the Broncos can find a way to get him signed at an affordable price.

 

[randymon]

I'm a Brock supporter that says get him signed for 14 million or less. If the price goes up to 15 million and beyond, I would have strong reservations. I think most of us all agree on that. I was simply pointing out before that several have gone from "Brock looks great" to "he didn't look that good". I thought he played well and really hope that the Broncos can find a way to get him signed at an affordable price.

Nailed that one. Lot of ship jumpers.

 

[cdumler7]

Never thought I would hear you say that Manning wasn`t instrumental in winning SB 50. I don`t care what stats you throw out there, without Manning and Oz,we don`t win. If your saying that we could of played Kap or RG or any of the other qbs you guys are fist pumping on and Denver would of had a better shot or as well of a shot at winning SB 50 then your not just disrespecting those two qbs and undermining their value to the teams win and your basing your assumption on the "stats" theory as some kind of proof, is mind boggling to me. I never said we couldn`t upgrade on the qb position at all. As a matter of fact I`ve stated many times that if Denver is to repeat, that position has to get better. Just don`t tell me that RG3 and Kap are an upgrade when you have no idea and neither has shown anything lately to substantiate that. Tell you what, if Brock isn`t signed and Denver has to go with any of your " upgrades" that are out there and that you guys say are better than Manning or Brock and they actually beat out Siemiean somehow ( excluding Fritz ) I will tell you right now that Denver won`t even qualify for the playoffs. I`ll also add...if Kap and RG3 somehow manage to beat out anybody wherever they end up and that team doesn`t finish .500 or below, I`ll eat all your hats.I guess we`ll find out Gents won`t we.

I don't think it is disrespectful to say that there is a chance even with another QB that we have similar results for the season. I mean not like Manning lit things up in the playoffs. Yes you can say that his presence motivated the team and that he got them into the right plays and such. Which is all great and I don't want to take away from that part of Manning's addition to the team. I also know that what we got from the QB position this year was subpar and cannot continue if we want to have any kind of success moving forward. WE cannot depend on having a historic defense carry us the entire season and in the playoffs every single season. History has shown us that this method is completely unsustainable.

And no I don't view RGIII or Kaep as some huge major upgrade. I do view them as other options if Osweiler gets out of our price range. I mean this isn't the game Madden where you can turn off the Salary Cap and just pay everybody everything they ever wanted to build your team. There are real business decisions that have to be made.

I will say that I do view say signing RGIII to a cheap contract and being able to have a player like Malik still on the team or through FA, and then getting a 3rd round comp pick out of the deal as a pretty good option in my book. AT least for the situation we have at hand where we are going to lose somebody for sure. I'm not saying it will lead to success but I am just thinking of the options that are out there for the team as it does seem like Osweiler is going highest bidder. WE have seen that Elway does not play that game.

 

[WalkerBoh]

Nailed that one. Lot of ship jumpers.

This is not a black/white type of thing. I see no "ship jumpers" on this board. So please enlighten me on what you are supposedly seeing. Now I DO see a lot of people who don't want to overspend to keep Osweiler. From my POV this is the point that some are failing to understand. But mind you, there is a HUGE difference between not wanting to spend too much on Oz, and wanting another QB besides Oz. You seem to have a false impression of the actual discussion going on.

Are you saying you are willing to keep Osweiler at any price? $15 MM/year? $17 MM? 20 MM?

 

[cdumler7]

I'm a Brock supporter that says get him signed for 14 million or less. If the price goes up to 15 million and beyond, I would have strong reservations. I think most of us all agree on that. I was simply pointing out before that several have gone from "Brock looks great" to "he didn't look that good". I thought he played well and really hope that the Broncos can find a way to get him signed at an affordable price.

It is easy to get caught up in the emotion of the moment. I mean that come back against the Bengals and Patriots was incredible and of course after a season ending in a Super Bowl victory it is hard to see anything but through homer glasses. Going back and looking through the season though while Osweiler had some moments he still struggled at times. There is a reason our team fell behind by 14 points in those games with our offense struggling for most of the game. I look at the Raiders game that our defense played maybe one of the best halves I have ever seen. I mean that game should have been over at half time with how well our defense was playing. Our offense though couldn't finish off drives. Osweiler missed some very easy throws for touchdowns in that game. That almost cost us the 1st seed.

Also when money is involved of actually having to invest in the player there are higher levels of expectations. Osweiler on his rookie contract yeah looked great compared to what he was being paid. Osweiler at $15 million or more and playing like he did though is just not going to cut it. I mean our offense when Osweiler started minus the Chargers game we averaged 20.5 points per game. That works when you have a historic defense. I doubt we can continue to expect to play at such a high level year in and year out. So we need more from Osweiler if he is going to get paid.

 

[MileHigh64]

It is easy to get caught up in the emotion of the moment. I mean that come back against the Bengals and Patriots was incredible and of course after a season ending in a Super Bowl victory it is hard to see anything but through homer glasses. Going back and looking through the season though while Osweiler had some moments he still struggled at times. There is a reason our team fell behind by 14 points in those games with our offense struggling for most of the game. I look at the Raiders game that our defense played maybe one of the best halves I have ever seen. I mean that game should have been over at half time with how well our defense was playing. Our offense though couldn't finish off drives. Osweiler missed some very easy throws for touchdowns in that game. That almost cost us the 1st seed.

Also when money is involved of actually having to invest in the player there are higher levels of expectations. Osweiler on his rookie contract yeah looked great compared to what he was being paid. Osweiler at $15 million or more and playing like he did though is just not going to cut it. I mean our offense when Osweiler started minus the Chargers game we averaged 20.5 points per game. That works when you have a historic defense. I doubt we can continue to expect to play at such a high level year in and year out. So we need more from Osweiler if he is going to get paid.

Yeah, I get all of that and I agree with you. I guess my expectations of a player who has only started 7 games in his career is different than some. There is no doubt that Oz has a lot of areas for improvement but I would also say that the rest of the offense let him down in some of the games. The 1st half against Pittsburgh, he looked very sharp and I thought we were getting a glimpse of what he could eventually do with more time in the starter's role. The San Diego game was as much on the receivers and backs with dropped passes and fumbles as it was on Brock.

I really think we're pretty much in agreement CD. The business side of the NFL can really change fan perspective in a heartbeat. If Brock goes to the highest bidder and leaves the Broncos, I'll be disappointed but it happens in this league.

 

[cdumler7]

Yeah, I get all of that and I agree with you. I guess my expectations of a player who has only started 7 games in his career is different than some. There is no doubt that Oz has a lot of areas for improvement but I would also say that the rest of the offense let him down in some of the games. The 1st half against Pittsburgh, he looked very sharp and I thought we were getting a glimpse of what he could eventually do with more time in the starter's role. The San Diego game was as much on the receivers and backs with dropped passes and fumbles as it was on Brock.

I really think we're pretty much in agreement CD. The business side of the NFL can really change fan perspective in a heartbeat. If Brock goes to the highest bidder and leaves the Broncos, I'll be disappointed but it happens in this league.

Well following twitter today with some of the main writers on the Broncos they still seem to think he is coming back. They mostly think his agent is just trying to play hardball. They also think it was idiotic for the Osweiler camp to try and sell the whole idea that he doesn't like Kubiak's offense. Not really the best ploy to try and drive up the cost. So I think he eventually signs with us and believe me I will be happy. As much as I have given all these other options and do kind of like the thought of RGIII or Kaepernick being coached up by Kubiak I do agree that Osweiler is still our best option and I do agree he has plenty of room for improvement and I do think he is the type that will work on that. I will be excited to see what a full off season as the top dog can do for him and this offense.

I also do agree that it wasn't all on him. There were drops, fumbles, and honestly a very conservative play calling when he was in the game that kept our points limited. Right now just waiting to see what happens but I do know if something doesn't get done with Osweiler that Elway has a back up plan and a back up plan to the back up plan. It is just the way he functions in he is always trying to look at 10 different futures all at the same time.

 

[MileHigh64]

^^^I agree on all points. Well said!

 

[WalkerBoh]

Yeah, I get all of that and I agree with you. I guess my expectations of a player who has only started 7 games in his career is different than some. There is no doubt that Oz has a lot of areas for improvement but I would also say that the rest of the offense let him down in some of the games. The 1st half against Pittsburgh, he looked very sharp and I thought we were getting a glimpse of what he could eventually do with more time in the starter's role. The San Diego game was as much on the receivers and backs with dropped passes and fumbles as it was on Brock.

I really think we're pretty much in agreement CD. The business side of the NFL can really change fan perspective in a heartbeat. If Brock goes to the highest bidder and leaves the Broncos, I'll be disappointed but it happens in this league.

The thing that bothered me about Oz in the Chargers game was he seemed unable to bring the team out of their funk. Manning stepped in and it was like an entire new team took the field. A good, strong leader should be able to bring the team back up on his own. The Broncos needed it, and a LOT was riding on it. Was it too much pressure? I don't know, but if it was that's a bad sign. Was it inexperience? Maybe, and maybe that's correctable. Can Oz develop more into a complete passer, or will he be figured out and be done in this league? These are questions that will determine whether Oz is Denver's next great QB, or a journeyman. 4TD's against Pittsburgh was nice to see. The comeback against New England was great. The Pittsburgh 2nd half, the Raiders game, and the Chargers game.....not so much. Just too many questions remain in my mind for me to want to pay him a ton of money. He needs to prove he can lead this team consistently before getting paid the big contract.

 

[MileHigh64]

The thing that bothered me about Oz in the Chargers game was he seemed unable to bring the team out of their funk. Manning stepped in and it was like an entire new team took the field. A good, strong leader should be able to bring the team back up on his own. The Broncos needed it, and a LOT was riding on it. Was it too much pressure? I don't know, but if it was that's a bad sign. Was it inexperience? Maybe, and maybe that's correctable. Can Oz develop more into a complete passer, or will he be figured out and be done in this league? These are questions that will determine whether Oz is Denver's next great QB, or a journeyman. 4TD's against Pittsburgh was nice to see. The comeback against New England was great. The Pittsgirgh 2nd half, the Raiders game, and the Chargers game.....not so much. Just too many questions remain in my mind for me to want to pay him a ton of money. He needs to prove he can lead this team consistently before getting paid the big contract.

I also agree with all of this!

 

[huskers1217]

houston texans

I have no faith in Rick Smith anymore

 

[58crash]

A QB that runs to a Team that runs though them like a drunkard goes 5ths is not wanted by me ...If is all about money he is not planning on having a long career .

IMO there are teams that have no clue how to develop a player . These teams are bottom feeders time in time out .. I think that it is on the staff more than players . Sure you get people that are not coachable but come on how man QB's have the Texans, Jets and Cleveland went though ?

Even the rams have had plenty Issues with QB's .... Also this is were Oz will land IMO the second season is over wham he is there ... He loves Arizona So I see LA as a real draw to him ..