Game Thread: Wild Card: Packers @ Redskins

[redskinsfan]

First I haven't seen you around here until two or three weeks ago. Secondly you have no idea what I know and don't know since you don't know me. Third I know Grant Paulsen's background and lastly if you don't believe me then maybe you'll agree with Chris Baker:

The Redskins lost to Green Bay 35-18, so one call wasn’t going to make or break the outcome. But it was a series in which the Packers started to generate offensive momentum. They had been forced to punt on three consecutive possessions before using more up-tempo offense – and before catching the Redskins with 12 men on the field.

Rodgers actually did this twice on the same drive, forcing Washington to alter its defensive strategy and preventing the Redskins from subbing more.

“That tempo messed up our defensive strategy,” Redskins end Chris Baker said. “We had to stick with our nickel so we didn’t get caught in bad passing situations.”

I am sure someone said this same thing a couple of days ago in thread on here. Now I am betting you will argue with Baker also and that is fine. I am arguing with a guy that thinks there is a "dink and dunk offense" and that is really sad on my part.

I'll stand on my point that Barry doesn't deserve to be fired after one year. That was your original thread.

I'm not sure how long I've been here has anything to do with this issue. If you'd like to know, I've been on these boards months before and took a hiatus until now. Pretty puzzling how this has any bearing on what we're talking about.

As for Baker, he's not saying anything that differs with what I've said. My main point here is that Barry got outcoached when he failed to do zip when Rodgers took over. I can understand if Rodgers caught him off guard on one drive. But Rodgers smartly kept pressing the strategy to see if Barry responded, which he didn't. Countless commentators, pundits and, in particular, Packers beat reporters noted before the game how to deal with Rodgers even before he started his small ball game. Somehow, this all seems to elude you. Good thing you don't argue for a living.

 

[redskinsfan]

i hugely beg to differ ANY pundits opinion is better then mine period . that doesnt mean mine is better either

Depends on what pundits you're talking about. Would you differ with someone like Ron Wolf on personnel issues? If you would, you'd be awfully foolish.

 

[redskinsfan]

I have no idea who Bullock is as I stopped reading the Post years ago. At least you understand that Grant's position is an opinion, not a fact. If I want real analysis, I turn to guys like Chris Cooley as he not only can diagnose a play, but can also discuss the whys and what the team was trying to do. Brian Mitchell is another that can do it quite well, but he doesn't do it often. As for wether Paulsen's opinion is better than anyone else's here, that again is your opinion...and you are welcome to it. I disagree. That's my opinion.

Dude, I cited Paulsen's opinion as something that's illustrative of countless others that weighed in on this issue. How about people like Boomer Esiason, Heath Evans, and the several Packers beat reporters like Rob Demovsky from ESPN, those from the Journal Sentinel, and their play-by-play guy Wayne Larrivee? If Barry had basically listened to what they said -- i.e., stack the box and dare Rodgers to throw -- Rodgers wouldn't have been able to screw us with his dink-and-dunk game. Because he wouldn't have, he would've been like Sam Bradford, who, because he wasn't to efficient with the up-tempo game (for other reasons) -- got off the field awfully quickly.

 

[Sportster 72]

I'm not sure how long I've been here has anything to do with this issue. If you'd like to know, I've been on these boards months before and took a hiatus until now. Pretty puzzling how this has any bearing on what we're talking about.

As for Baker, he's not saying anything that differs with what I've said. My main point here is that Barry got outcoached when he failed to do zip when Rodgers took over. I can understand if Rodgers caught him off guard on one drive. But Rodgers smartly kept pressing the strategy to see if Barry responded, which he didn't. Countless commentators, pundits and, in particular, Packers beat reporters noted before the game how to deal with Rodgers even before he started his small ball game. Somehow, this all seems to elude you. Good thing you don't argue for a living.

I brought up not seeing you hear in relation to you supposedly knowing what my background is. Reading comprehension is not your strong point right?

I knew you wouldn't understand what Baker that was the fun in raising that point. No surprise you didn't understand that either.

You have been successfully countered by so many here I wasn't shocked to see your name on the injury list in concussion protocol.

 

[Sportster 72]

Depends on what pundits you're talking about. Would you differ with someone like Ron Wolf on personnel issues? If you would, you'd be awfully foolish.

Serious? You didn't read what dad said? He told you he would believe football people over radio people. You really didn't understand that?

 

[j_y19]

Serious? You didn't read what dad said? He told you he would believe football people over radio people. You really didn't understand that?

I've come to the conclusion that he is so busy thinking about his next response that he doesn't actually read what we post. He got called out for making a knee jerk claim that we should fire Barry that no one else supports and he has been looking for anything or anyone to defend his ridiculous position ever since.

 

[Sportster 72]

I've come to the conclusion that he is so busy thinking about his next response that he doesn't actually read what we post. He got called out for making a knee jerk claim that we should fire Barry that no one else supports and he has been looking for anything or anyone to defend his ridiculous position ever since.

I would say that sums it up. He read all the pre-game articles about having the corners press which they did at times. He had one thread where he said something to the effect of "I knew we were screwed when Vic Fangio didn't sign." I think that is the root of the story. Really doesn't matter, to the best of my knowledge he isn't going anywhere. I think SM was in on signing him so I don't expect any changes.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

I think that gke summed it up best in a previous reply. Perhaps Barry made some mistakes, but they don't warrant firing the guy. Gruden & co just need to talk with Barry & his staff @ what occurred & how to improve their approach (they will no doubt do this anyhow).

The last thing that this team needs is a coaching change especially when they are coming off a good season. ANY Redskins fan should understand that. In a previous reply the Spurrier situation was mentioned as a comparison. Great. That situation is completely different since 1. that Redskins team sucked & 2. Spurrier was replaced by a HOF coach. Any potential replacements for Barry will likely not fall into this category.

Things like the opinions of Esiason, Wolf, beat writers, etc are now irrelevant since that game is now in the rear view mirror. Time to move on & this means keeping the entire staff if possible & looking at ways to improve next years personnel. The Packers game is now old news.

 

[j_y19]

I think that gke summed it up best in a previous reply. Perhaps Barry made some mistakes, but they don't warrant firing the guy. Gruden & co just need to talk with Barry & his staff @ what occurred & how to improve their approach (they will no doubt do this anyhow).

The last thing that this team needs is a coaching change especially when they are coming off a good season. ANY Redskins fan should understand that. In a previous reply the Spurrier situation was mentioned as a comparison. Great. That situation is completely different since 1. that Redskins team sucked & 2. Spurrier was replaced by a HOF coach. Any potential replacements for Barry will likely not fall into this category.

Things like the opinions of Esiason, Wolf, beat writers, etc are now irrelevant since that game is now in the rear view mirror. Time to move on & this means keeping the entire staff if possible & looking at ways to improve next years personnel. The Packers game is now old news.

Exactly. I'm by no means a Barry supporter. The guy may turn out to be a bum. But to disrupt a franchise heading in the right direction and judge Barry based on the results while having to field a defense that had new parts inserted every week straight off the street is ridiculous. And not one of those experts he sighted has called for the firing of our DC. He is alone on this one. As I tried to advise him early on, just let this go.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Good pt j_y. I think that you can basically compare this to the Gruden situation last season. Lots of folks (including people here & possibly me) were about ready to advocate firing him. However - he did well this season & I believe most folks (excluding the RG3 idol worshipers) think that he should be here for a while. Sometimes time is an ally.

The same could apply to Barry - we just need to give this at least another year.

 

[Sportster 72]

I think that was the point most of us were making. Firing the guy after one year, especially with all the injuries would be counter productive to everything SM is trying to do.

 

[skinsdad62]

ron wolfe is a former GM , as is casserly and the others and yes my opinion is as good as there . not one of them had us taking sherf at 5 last year but shark and i certainly did yet those experts were wrong while the SportsHoopla novice was dead on

i am not a general in the army but i trained many and their ideas came from mine and other NCOS experience

this myth that because they work in an industry means their opinion trumps mine is foolish

i work in the nuclear industry . i know alot about physics but yet i dont have a formal education so many dismiss me when i talk about nuclear power yet i am one of the best in my field

just because ron woldfe says something doesnt mean i am going to bow down and cede my point when mine is just as valid

i am not a sheep , i am a leader and as such i wont speak about a subject i dont know much about but i can look at tape , i can read a defense and i know what a scheme is and the theory behind it i am not an astronmer but i can damn sure find jupiter in the sky

 

[Sharkinva]

But can you tell Uranus from a hole in the ground??

Sorry dude, it was too good to pass up.

 

[skinsdad62]

But can you tell Uranus from a hole in the ground??

Sorry dude, it was too good to pass up.

i can tell uranus from a hole in the ground big fella

 

[Sportster 72]

Funny how that works huh dad. I worked on weapon systems on fighter jets and fleet ballistic missile submarines but didn't go to college until my 30s. If you can make that nuclear stuff go boom I can get it there. I hit what I was aiming for most of the time too.


As you know I played football for a number of years too but I was in a hybrid of the triple option. I was a wingback before I helped wingman. That was in the olden days before leather helmets, Sammy Baugh and all this new fangled stuff so what would I know about the dink and dunk offense. I also played a little CB but we only used press man coverage on some downs. Damned coaches.

Don't get worked up Red, this was all said in good humor.

 

[redskinsfan]

I brought up not seeing you hear in relation to you supposedly knowing what my background is. Reading comprehension is not your strong point right?

I knew you wouldn't understand what Baker that was the fun in raising that point. No surprise you didn't understand that either.

You have been successfully countered by so many here I wasn't shocked to see your name on the injury list in concussion protocol.

My reading comprehension skills are just fine, thank you. I also understand the difference between the use of "hear" and "here." Good job trying to list off a handful, if that, of blind posters on a forum like this one "hear" to support your view. I've got others who not only are publicly recognized for their football acumen, but also those who have first hand knowledge of the Packers and "here" about that team's ups and downs on a daily basis. This is what lawyers and litigators call "expert witnesses," all of whom, as just noted above, weigh in on my side of the argument. Like I said, good thing you don't argue for a living, as English as your first language seems to be a problem enough.

 

[Sharkinva]

Guys... might I suggest we ease up on the veiled personal attacks. We are all Skins fans here and want whats best for the team.

At the end of the day, we wont all agree.

But all that Bittermuch beer shit needs to stay where it belongs right now.... and i think we all know where that is as I "hear" they just opened a new production plant in Texas.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Give me a break. Most folks "here" post things on the spot & will quite often make mistakes. Many also do this from phones & other devices where you can't always get things 100% correct. As long as people get the gist of the message who cares?

Well - this debate should now officially be dead. Barry will be retained but perhaps educated to do things differently. It is in nobody's interest for the Redskins to be firing coaches at this time.

 

[redskinsfan]

ron wolfe is a former GM , as is casserly and the others and yes my opinion is as good as there . not one of them had us taking sherf at 5 last year but shark and i certainly did yet those experts were wrong while the SportsHoopla novice was dead on

i am not a general in the army but i trained many and their ideas came from mine and other NCOS experience

this myth that because they work in an industry means their opinion trumps mine is foolish

i work in the nuclear industry . i know alot about physics but yet i dont have a formal education so many dismiss me when i talk about nuclear power yet i am one of the best in my field

just because ron woldfe says something doesnt mean i am going to bow down and cede my point when mine is just as valid

i am not a sheep , i am a leader and as such i wont speak about a subject i dont know much about but i can look at tape , i can read a defense and i know what a scheme is and the theory behind it i am not an astronmer but i can damn sure find jupiter in the sky

I understand the point you're making. I can't tell you how many times when economists with Ph.Ds I'm cross-examining have told me I don't know what I'm talking about because I don't possess their level of economic expertise. The answer to that is simple: while that might be true, I know enough for any one particular case to impeach the testimony they're giving. However, there are instances where their substantive expertise clearly preempts any knowledge I'd have on an issue. The key is to understand the difference between the two.

The Scherff example you're citing isn't on point. Ron Wolfe and Charley Casserly's expertise lies in personnel assessments and doesn't turn on projecting where certain individuals will be drafted. As to the former, they and countless other draft pundits predicted that Scherff would be a guard rather than a tackle. They were right and so were the many posters here that agreed with them. Why? Because personnel calls like that are truly their bailiwick and fit more in the latter situation I referenced above where you're now trying to call into question core expertise those guys have. Projecting where people are drafted, on the other hand, would fall into the former example because neither of those guys are psychics that can truly predict what any team will draft.

Thus, when I'm citing people like Rob Demovsky, he's a guy that not only knows his football stuff, but also is the guy on the ground that's familiar with the Pack's daily operations. That's why the opinions he and others like him carry far more weight.

 

[redskinsfan]

Exactly. I'm by no means a Barry supporter. The guy may turn out to be a bum. But to disrupt a franchise heading in the right direction and judge Barry based on the results while having to field a defense that had new parts inserted every week straight off the street is ridiculous. And not one of those experts he sighted has called for the firing of our DC. He is alone on this one. As I tried to advise him early on, just let this go.

I can respect this opinion, but I'm hardly alone in wanting Barry gone. I can reluctantly have him for one more year, but my thinking on Barry is this: I never thought he was good to begin with and didn't want him hired in the first place. Indeed, the reasons why a lot of us were skeptical with Barry from the get go began to manifest themselves early on. While he did do some good things, it just appeared that he'd be the same guy a lot suspected him to be and many were calling for his head during the season. Thus, far from this past game constituting an overreaction regarding Barry, it was, in fact, a punctuating point with respect to his lack of coordinating skills that built up during the season.

I thought the same thing about Spurrier. Never wanted him hired in the first place, saw a bunch of red flags right afterwards (e.g., when he was trying to get the Florida Gator band back together,) and witnessed him do some insane things like leaving Pat Ramsey without any pass pro to take hits because that's what his system dictated. To me, we didn't need another season to see what Spurrier was about. Same thing with Barry. Unfortunately, he's probably going to be around for another season. I just hope we get him more players and that he's able to adapt his scheme to them and, more importantly, adjustments offenses make during the game.