Griff to Roberts Film Breakdown

[Darrell Green Fan]

Really dude? seriously. Name me the last 3-13 or hell 4-12 or even 6-10 team that had a second year QB, had its coach fired and the QBs job was NEVER even remotely in question. You guys are always harping that I should forget about the trade. Well I agree, screw the trade, coming off a 3-13 season with a new head coach MOST sane teams with two young QBs would have had an open competition for the spot. See I think the real mistake here is they hired Gruden to "fix" RG3. You hire a coach to fix the team, but something tells me if gruden decided RG3 isnt in the best interest of the team, we will have alot of the problems we had last year all over. And i know that a large portion of the fan base would turn on Gruden if he even hinted at Cousins playing for any reason other than RG3 being in an iron lung.

Since you insist that Griffin is the reason Shanny was fired how about you start with the list of all the head coaches who were retained after their 3rd year with a 3-13 record and I supply the list off all the QBs who ended up being pretty good who were not put into a competition with their backups who had passing stats worse than Griffin's 2 year numbers.

You really want to go down this road?

 

[Caliskinsfan]

Cali... you are not that Naive. The time frame should have been from the moment Shanahan was fired. I forget who said it, but a big problem is that this season has been made more about RG3, than about the Redskins. Now if he comes out and performs and looks stellar and the team wins, great. Things will go smoothly. But we all know what a train wreck this team became i Gibbs last season when the defense was top ten and we were losing winnable games because the offense couldnt produce points. Last week was a very winnable game, despite a defensive blown play and a special teams blown play. But by this time Monday we will either be 1-1 and the hounds will be put off for another week, or 0-2 and things get really loud.

Maybe I am that naive...

But I do agree with the rest of your post. The focus needs to be on the team as a whole, how Griffin plays is a huge part of that. But certainly not the ONLY part of that.

Listening to Jay speak, I don't get the sense that it's only about Griffin.... He seems forthright about errors from all persons on O, including Griff. Also errors that occurred with the rest of the team.

Seems to me, it's the fans and media who are focusing mostly on Griffin. NOT the coaches and team...who seem to be focused on improving all phases of our game.

But then again, it's possible, I'm just being naive. I try to focus on actions and what is actually being said, I don't bother looking for or attributing motives to what might have been said behind the scenes.

 

[Sharkinva]

Since you insist that Griffin is the reason Shanny was fired how about you start with the list of all the head coaches who were retained after their 3rd year with a 3-13 record and I supply the list off all the QBs who ended up being pretty good who were not put into a competition with their backups who had passing stats worse than Griffin's 2 year numbers.

You really want to go down this road?

Lets not waste the time man. Most QBs of a 3-13 team whos coach had just been fired end up not starting or replaced within a two year period of the coach being replaced.

You hold griffin up as the Next great QB, you compare him to Manning, Brady and what ever other Successful QB there is out there.

I have always seen him as Mike Vick 2.0, a little better than the original.. but thats about it. Now either he lives up to ALL the faith and resources the team and fan base have put into him or he doesnt. I dont think he will. Thats not because I hate him as Im sure you are thinking. Its simply because I dont think many running QBs can get it done in the NFL.

 

[Caliskinsfan]

Since you insist that Griffin is the reason Shanny was fired how about you start with the list of all the head coaches who were retained after their 3rd year with a 3-13 record and I supply the list off all the QBs who ended up being pretty good who were not put into a competition with their backups who had passing stats worse than Griffin's 2 year numbers.

You really want to go down this road?

DGF, shark is our teams devils advocate regarding Griff. And a good one. He isn't trying to ruffle your feathers on a personal level.

Whether you agree with his take on hidden motives or agendas, he is consistent with his take. That's why you can respect it, but dont have to agree with it.

Neither of you will change your minds or each other's and only time will tell us the truth...

 

[j_y19]

Wait, what? Was it so bad what I wrote? If so I apologize. I'm just tired of all the Griff hate, seems like everyone piles on the guy for everything.

Dude, just because I am willing to be critical of the prodigy son doesn't mean I hate him. I've never called for his benching. I realize that we have to play this out to see if he can become an NFL QB. But you are naive if you think that the relationship between the shanahans and griffin didn't have an impact on them being fired. But I'm also not going to give him a pass as if he was some innocent party in all of this.

I think its a huge mistake to try and turn RG3 into a primarily pocket passer on multiple levels. I also think that it is RG3 and his camp that are pushing for this. RG3 has an opportunity to be a unique type of QB. People compare him to Vick. He has the potential to be so much more. But if he insists that he become a pocket passer, I don't believe he will ever be anything more than average with that limitation. And we paid way too much for an average QB. I also feel this. Cousins will end up being as good, if not better, pocket QB. This does not mean that Cousins has more potential, it means that RG3 is being limited from his full impact by turning him into a stereotypical NFL QB.

If that's hating, then so be it.

 

[skinsdad62]

why did garcon and moss have to be sinisterly "advised " why is that vaild ?

why cant it be that they both acted emotionally after the post game presser and after talking with Rg3 and finding out what he meant they said "ok " we can live with that explanation and leave it at that as the evidence since then clearly suggests they did ?

perhaps Rg3 could have said look guys , i threw you under the bus with my words because i was being asked so many questions and i am frustrated with my play and the situation i am in . i am sorry and i will do better taking responsibility which again he has done

with you guys it always has to be the negative

as for teams with losing records didnt zorn name JC unquestioned starter ? just saying

now for 7 days we have talked almost exclusively about Rg3 and very little about anyone else or the jags

 

[j_y19]

Who said anything about sinisterly? All I said is we can only speculate, just as you have done in your post. You gather your data and formulate an opinion, I do the same. It doesn't mean one is right and one is wrong. They are opinions. In reality, no one on this board has a clue what really happened.

 

[skinsdad62]

@john_keim: I've said this often, but no player is universally beloved -- heck, Darrell Green had some detractors. So, yes, Griffin has his critics in the locker room -- when you lose and play quarterback, that happens. But to the degree it was portrayed by some (who have never been in there)? No. Griffin is not a bad guy by any means. Donovan McNabb, even when playing well, had his critics in the Eagles' locker room. Even Russell Wilson reportedly turned off some vets when he took over a couple years ago. Point is, it happens. The rebuttal: play well.


russell wilson had turned off vets ? huh ? i thought Rg3 was the only asshole in the nfl according to some here

 

[j_y19]

@john_keim: I've said this often, but no player is universally beloved -- heck, Darrell Green had some detractors. So, yes, Griffin has his critics in the locker room -- when you lose and play quarterback, that happens. But to the degree it was portrayed by some (who have never been in there)? No. Griffin is not a bad guy by any means. Donovan McNabb, even when playing well, had his critics in the Eagles' locker room. Even Russell Wilson reportedly turned off some vets when he took over a couple years ago. Point is, it happens. The rebuttal: play well.


russell wilson had turned off vets ? huh ? i thought Rg3 was the only asshole in the nfl according to some here

See, here you go again. I've never seen anyone refer to RG3 as an asshole.......why go there? You just complained that all we've talked about is RG3 and then post this and it will raise it to another level. Why is it that just because some disagree with you about RG3 that you have to vilify them?

 

[skinsdad62]

Who said anything about sinisterly? All I said is we can only speculate, just as you have done in your post. You gather your data and formulate an opinion, I do the same. It doesn't mean one is right and one is wrong. They are opinions. In reality, no one on this board has a clue what really happened.

you said moss and garcon were "advised " you chose the word i didnt and in the context it was used it implied that we still hate rg3 but we will "make nice " for now

if you chose a different word then perhaps it would have looked a little more fair

and you are right we here on this board can only speculate

 

[skinsdad62]

See, here you go again. I've never seen anyone refer to RG3 as an asshole.......why go there? You just complained that all we've talked about is RG3 and then post this and it will raise it to another level. Why is it that just because some disagree with you about RG3 that you have to vilify them?

who said YOU in that post . i never mentioned anyone by name . no one . i didnt even say haters

 

[j_y19]

you said moss and garcon were "advised " you chose the word i didnt and in the context it was used it implied that we still hate rg3 but we will "make nice " for now

if you chose a different word then perhaps it would have looked a little more fair

and you are right we here on this board can only speculate

Even if they were advised by snyder himself for the sake of team unity, that's not sinister. but I do think someone said something to them telling them to tone it down. I have no idea who or why, but I can speculate.

 

[skinsdad62]

Excerpt

“I’m not trying to stay in the pocket just to play quarterback,” he said this week. “I’m trying to play the game at an efficient level, a high level, and be what my team needs me to be to win. And if that (means) Coach calling more run plays, then I’m all for it. And if it doesn’t, and we continue to run the offense that we have, I’ll do that, too.”
When asked if he had given Gruden any preferences for how he should be used, Griffin said he defers to the coaching staff.

the last line here is telling . clearly he states he doesnt tell the staff how to use him . he defers to the staff

again out of his own mouth refuting claims made by people on this board that he pulls the strings and is dictating this style of qb play

 

[skinsdad62]

Even if they were advised by snyder himself for the sake of team unity, that's not sinister. but I do think someone said something to them telling them to tone it down. I have no idea who or why, but I can speculate.

i dont think they were advised by anyone other then to talk it out . i doubt snyder was even consulted and was probably stopped at allen

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

DGF, shark is our teams devils advocate regarding Griff. And a good one. He isn't trying to ruffle your feathers on a personal level.

Whether you agree with his take on hidden motives or agendas, he is consistent with his take. That's why you can respect it, but dont have to agree with it.

Neither of you will change your minds or each other's and only time will tell us the truth...

If I appeared to have my feathers ruffled I assume you that was not the case. Just a good old fashion message board debate, nothing more.

I wasn't serious about Shark coming up with that, coaches list I was just making a point. And that point is Shanny was not fired because of RGIII IMO, his record did him in as it would have with every other NFL head coach coming off a 3-13 year after his 3rd season.

Obviously most QBs on a 3-13 are usually questioned. But those QBs are almost always Blaine Gabbert, Andre Ware etc. This isn't even close to that situation. We are talking about one of the highest rated QB prospects to come out in year, a guy just a year removed from being the Offensive Rookie of the Year. To compare him to the other 3-13 QBs is not apples to oranges it's apples to telephone polls

 

[j_y19]

who said YOU in that post . i never mentioned anyone by name . no one . i didnt even say haters

That's not the point. The point is you complain about all the RG3 banter and then you continue/increase the issue by stating that some on here have labeled him an asshole (of which I'v never seen him labeled that way by even his most ardent detractors). DO you think that will kill the banter or increase it?

 

[j_y19]

Excerpt

“I’m not trying to stay in the pocket just to play quarterback,” he said this week. “I’m trying to play the game at an efficient level, a high level, and be what my team needs me to be to win. And if that (means) Coach calling more run plays, then I’m all for it. And if it doesn’t, and we continue to run the offense that we have, I’ll do that, too.”
When asked if he had given Gruden any preferences for how he should be used, Griffin said he defers to the coaching staff.

the last line here is telling . clearly he states he doesnt tell the staff how to use him . he defers to the staff

again out of his own mouth refuting claims made by people on this board that he pulls the strings and is dictating this style of qb play

And it comes down to this. Either you believe him or you don't. Those that don't will point to the other statements he has made over the last few years that were in direct opposition of his actions. They will say that in front of the mic, he is always politically correct, just as he is here with this statement. His proponents, on the other hand, will take is statement as gospel. The two sides will not agree and nothing can be said to shown to convince the other side they are right.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Me thinks someone is a little sensitive this morning.

 

[Sharkinva]

If I appeared to have my feathers ruffled I assume you that was not the case. Just a good old fashion message board debate, nothing more.

I wasn't serious about Shark coming up with that, coaches list I was just making a point. And that point is Shanny was not fired because of RGIII IMO, his record did him in as it would have with every other NFL head coach coming off a 3-13 year after his 3rd season.

Obviously most QBs on a 3-13 are usually questioned. But those QBs are almost always Blaine Gabbert, Andre Ware etc. This isn't even close to that situation. We are talking about one of the highest rated QB prospects to come out in year, a guy just a year removed from being the Offensive Rookie of the Year. To compare him to the other 3-13 QBs is not apples to oranges it's apples to telephone polls

OK, so lets keep playing. I will grant you that MOST coaches coming off a 3-13 season would get fired. How ever I dont conceed the whole RG3 is light years above other QBs in situations like that. Simply put, aside from his rookie year which was stellar in an offense tailored to his skill set, what has he done?? Last year he was average. And yes I know I know, he was injured. But again I will say if he was to hurt to play effectively, should he have been playing at all?? Right now he looks average, and by average I mean Jason Campbell average. I agree with j_y, at some point we need to see the skills set that made him special, or a dramatic improvement in the skill set he is trying to master. But to say well he earned the right to be unquestioned start this year because of what he showed two seasons ago in an entirely different passing offense is a stretch.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

I keep going back to the fact that Cousins was no doubt available last off season and nobody appeared interested. Those favoring an open competition have not really addressed this point.

I'm going to say in the least condescending way possible: What makes those posters believe they know more about evaluating talent than the GMs in Oakland, Houston and several other places where their QB situation is worse than it is here. Obviously they evaluated Kirk Cousins and concluded that he was not worth trading a pick for.