Fred Davis suspended indefinitely w/o pay

[JDM]

Those links are hilarious. Look at any legitimate research on the subject instead of unbacked opinions. There is no physical addiction. It does not exist.

 

[gkekoa]

So a government website, a psychological website, and a website devoted to recovery of addiction are not valid? Their research was what, fake?


Where are your sources?

 

[JDM]

They cited no research. The research does not exist.

They are all sites pushing agendas. The government website's agenda is to pretend that drug laws are not retarded. The psychology website is a blog post with no references. The addiction site is a site promoting the idea of addiction being not your fault so they can sell addiction recovery.

 

[gkekoa]

They cited no research. The research does not exist.

They are all sites pushing agendas. The government website's agenda is to pretend that drug laws are not retarded. The psychology website is a blog post with no references. The addiction site is a site promoting the idea of addiction being not your fault so they can sell addiction recovery.

Government website mentions the research.

The Psychology Today website mentions the research done.


Any research you post will have an agenda and it sounds like you have one.

 

[JDM]

Government website mentions the research.

The Psychology Today website mentions the research done.


Any research you post will have an agenda and it sounds like you have one.

Notice how the government one conveniently cites everything but the withdrawal information?

And the research mentioned by the psychology website is also not related in any way to withdrawal.

They do not provide evidence because evidence does not exist.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Alcohol related deaths compared to Marijuana deaths...

I am not sure if this link is totally accurate, but I am sure it is very close since I did similar research several years ago. Let me preface this by saying that I have not been high in probably at least 20 years since it doesn't do much for me. However - the effects of pot are much, much less than the damage done for other legal drugs such as nicotine, alcohol and over-the-counter drugs (even with the claim by some that today's pot is much different). Honestly - can any of you recall anyone dying as the result of pot? How many auto accidents do you recall where the source of the issue was primarily due to pot? I know of none in either of these areas.

Bottom line - except for extreme abuse (e.g. taking it every day) I don't see how this would have much of an effect on the NFL. Even in that case - you could say the same thing for something as basic as eating too much junk food.

Again - not really sure why this discussion is centered on pot when the most recent problems for Davis have absolutely nothing to do with pot! He was first suspended for supplements and then pulled over for a DUI. If you want to make a lot of noise why not focus on those areas? I just don't get it.

 

[JDM]

That's a stretch. There have been some (though still small) number of accidents that could be attributable to marijuana (although almost certainly the majority were inexperienced; I haven't smoked in a few months but I am generally more aware with all but extremely high amounts of usage), but there have also been studies that legality substantially decreases the number of alcohol related accidents, so overall it is likely to increase safety to some degree.


As to how this got on pot, couldn't tell you.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

That's a stretch. There have been some (though still small) number of accidents that could be attributable to marijuana (although almost certainly the majority were inexperienced; I haven't smoked in a few months but I am generally more aware with all but extremely high amounts of usage), but there have also been studies that legality substantially decreases the number of alcohol related accidents, so overall it is likely to increase safety to some degree.


As to how this got on pot, couldn't tell you.

I would not doubt that some accidents could be attributed to pot, but the number would be very small & again I am not aware of any while I certainly know of deaths over time that were directly attributed to alcohol. Just look at this case - Davis' latest troubles are the result of alcohol and not pot.

 

[JDM]

I'm not disputing the overall premise. I'm just interested in honestly approaching the facts, and that website is overstating things. There almost certainly have been deaths from marijuana related accidents. A small number to be sure, but not non-existent.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

I'm not disputing the overall premise. I'm just interested in honestly approaching the facts, and that website is overstating things. There almost certainly have been deaths from marijuana related accidents. A small number to be sure, but not non-existent.

Agree. If I had the time I could find a more reputable source. However - the results would not be that different. My main point is that pot is not that big of a deal especially when compared with most of the legal drugs in this country. It is dwarfed by the deaths, illnesses & money that is spent on the effects of alcohol, nicotine and over-the-country drugs. I feel very confident in stating that it will be legal for recreational use in most of the country in the not too distant future. Time will tell.

 

[gkekoa]

Yep...you guys are right with your bias. The only reason you want it legal is so you can feel better about smoking it. Neither of you wants to look at the truth.

 

[Sharkinva]

Yep...you guys are right with your bias. The only reason you want it legal is so you can feel better about smoking it. Neither of you wants to look at the truth.

GK... the truth of the matter is that Colorado and Washington state are the test cases for mass public legalization of pot for recreational use. The only hold back has been a way to police it and more importantly tax its sales and distribution. I wont debate on IF it is addictive or not. Because frankly any thing can be addictive. But the reality is that Pot is no more dangerous than a ton of legally controlled substances currently available in every state of this union. Much like prohibition, the government will eventually decide that its more cost effective to legalize it and make money off of it, rather than continue to bleed money trying to police it as an illegal substance.


And here is the real catch. If it were legalized right this second for public recreational use, no one can force you, me or any one else to use it. Just like no one can force some one to drink beer, or eat twinkies for that matter. Its a personal choice. Just as allowing it to be an addiction to a degree is a personal choice since most types of addiction they are more than willing to help you kick.. for a price.

So even if Davis is addicted to weed, he more than most people has the financial where withal to have corrected this problem. And when it became a problem, it was on HIM and HIM alone to get this problem corrected. It would be one thing if he was addicted and couldnt afford to get help to kick the habit. But considering the fact that he is a multimillionaire, AND his job actually provides help relatively free of charge to HELP him kick this.... in my mind he has no excuse.

 

[JDM]

Yep...you guys are right with your bias. The only reason you want it legal is so you can feel better about smoking it. Neither of you wants to look at the truth.

I break laws all the time. I have no moral resistance to doing so, and legalization won't honestly affect me individually in any way. It would however affect the country as a whole positively in several ways. Alcohol related deaths go down, other drug use goes down, and tax revenue goes up.

 

[gkekoa]

I break laws all the time. I have no moral resistance to doing so, and legalization won't honestly affect me individually in any way. It would however affect the country as a whole positively in several ways. Alcohol related deaths go down, other drug use goes down, and tax revenue goes up.

1) Alcohol related deaths go down. Perhaps but I'm not sure if that's a good thing. I don't mind when the drinker dies.

2) Other drug use goes down? No evidence to support that claim at al. Many studies have shown that marijuana use has a higher probability to use "harder" drugs.

3) Tax revenue goes up. Perhaps but will it hurt our effectiveness in the workplace?

 

[gkekoa]

GK... the truth of the matter is that Colorado and Washington state are the test cases for mass public legalization of pot for recreational use. The only hold back has been a way to police it and more importantly tax its sales and distribution. I wont debate on IF it is addictive or not. Because frankly any thing can be addictive. But the reality is that Pot is no more dangerous than a ton of legally controlled substances currently available in every state of this union. Much like prohibition, the government will eventually decide that its more cost effective to legalize it and make money off of it, rather than continue to bleed money trying to police it as an illegal substance.


And here is the real catch. If it were legalized right this second for public recreational use, no one can force you, me or any one else to use it. Just like no one can force some one to drink beer, or eat twinkies for that matter. Its a personal choice. Just as allowing it to be an addiction to a degree is a personal choice since most types of addiction they are more than willing to help you kick.. for a price.

So even if Davis is addicted to weed, he more than most people has the financial where withal to have corrected this problem. And when it became a problem, it was on HIM and HIM alone to get this problem corrected. It would be one thing if he was addicted and couldnt afford to get help to kick the habit. But considering the fact that he is a multimillionaire, AND his job actually provides help relatively free of charge to HELP him kick this.... in my mind he has no excuse.

I agree with you. They will legalize marijuana because they don't try to truly stop people from using drugs. I agree the way they do things, is not cost effective as well.

I'm a bit of dick with how I handle crime. The way I'd do it is either very inexpensive and would actually make money or it would only cost the amount for court expenses.

 

[JDM]

1) Alcohol related deaths go down. Perhaps but I'm not sure if that's a good thing. I don't mind when the drinker dies.

2) Other drug use goes down? No evidence to support that claim at al. Many studies have shown that marijuana use has a higher probability to use "harder" drugs.

3) Tax revenue goes up. Perhaps but will it hurt our effectiveness in the workplace?

1) What the fuck is wrong with you? But this also means less innocent people get hit by drunk drivers.

2) No, no they haven't. The gateway argument has been disproven on many occasions and no one with even a hint of credibility uses it. Moreover, legalizing all drugs decreases the abuse of all drugs.

3) Absurd. Laughable.


Learn what you're talking about before making a fool of yourself. This is hilarious.

 

[gkekoa]

1) What the fuck is wrong with you? But this also means less innocent people get hit by drunk drivers.

2) No, no they haven't. The gateway argument has been disproven on many occasions and no one with even a hint of credibility uses it. Moreover, legalizing all drugs decreases the abuse of all drugs.

3) Absurd. Laughable.


Learn what you're talking about before making a fool of yourself. This is hilarious.

1) So I'm supposed to feel horrible for people who bring things upon themselves? That makes something wrong with me? How about people not drink and drive.

2) It has never been debunked. The statistics speak for themselves. If you smoke weed, you have a greater chance of trying a harder drug than somebody who does not smoke weed. Legalizing all drugs decreases the abuse of all drugs? How do you figure that?

3) Are you suggesting people that are high, work better than those who are not? It's funny when people make outlandish claims like you do and you can't see your personal bias.

 

[JDM]

1) So I'm supposed to feel horrible for people who bring things upon themselves? That makes something wrong with me? How about people not drink and drive.

2) It has never been debunked. The statistics speak for themselves. If you smoke weed, you have a greater chance of trying a harder drug than somebody who does not smoke weed. Legalizing all drugs decreases the abuse of all drugs? How do you figure that?

3) Are you suggesting people that are high, work better than those who are not? It's funny when people make outlandish claims like you do and you can't see your personal bias.

1) It decreases accidents because it decreases drunk driving. Is this not a good goal?

2) No, it hasn't. The gateway myth is a joke. Second, it has been shown in the case I linked to and others that legalization results in less abuse. There are several thoughts as to why, but the correlation itself is strong and repeated.

3) Personally, yes, it makes me work better, both in physical labor intensive jobs and in programming that is my career. But I'm not making that claim. I'm stating that the idea that making it legal means that any significant number of people who go to work sober now will magically go to work high if it is legal and throw their jobs away.


Again, do actual research instead of relying on laughable and disproven "facts" you learned 80 years ago when no one knew anything. The information is all available, and most of it is pretty easy to find.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Yep...you guys are right with your bias. The only reason you want it legal is so you can feel better about smoking it. Neither of you wants to look at the truth.

Apparently you don't know how to read. I specifically stated that I had not smoked pot in well over 20 years. "The truth" is that tobacco, alcohol and over-the-counter drugs do much more damage than pot. Do you dispute that? If so - you will be on the wrong end of the argument. Thanks for putting us in our place. Please.

 

[gkekoa]

Apparently you don't know how to read. I specifically stated that I had not smoked pot in well over 20 years. "The truth" is that tobacco, alcohol and over-the-counter drugs do much more damage than pot. Do you dispute that? If so - you will be on the wrong end of the argument. Thanks for putting us in our place. Please.

I will dispute it. Alcohol does do damage to the liver and it's extreme. Marijuana does damage to the brain and it is less extreme, unless you are doing it young. Just because they are both bad, doesn't mean they should both be legal. Traces of alcohol are going within 8 hours...marijuana stays into the system for up to 1 month.

Tobacco is worse but doesn't destroy your mind. It destroys your lungs and many other places because of the carcinogens. See the above.

OTC drugs? Show me the damage that is supposed to be worse.