So, Howard tells Rockets he wants a 3rd superstar?

[shitsho]

This is my only knock on Spo, but tbh what can he do? He is not going to sit LBJ ever he really has no power. Fine LBJ for conduct unbecoming of a player? or detrimental to the team? Come on, he just can't. At this level of basketball Xs and Os every one knows and every one is good at them. Why PJ was such a great coach was his ability to motivate and wage psychological warfare with his players into doing what he wanted them to do. A lot of that as luck because MJ and Pippen were so driven to succeed they did a lot of that. Then by the time he was in LA he had 6 rings and commanded a lot of respect.

Spo should find a way to get himself, Lebron, and Wade on the same page in the effort category. If he cant yell at Lebron or Wade for crying to the refs or making a bad play it filters down to the rest of the team and takes away that total commitment to sustained effort. I dont know why that does not exist yet but when it does then you're going to see something historic.

 

[BOTSLAYER]

agree, I think a lot had to do with the 27 game thing. Spo I think was just thrilled he saw his team give a nightly effort to win not realizing Wade will need his knees in the post season.

Next year they will not make that mistake and I think they will reach an understanding that we will be ignoring the regular season for the most part.

When they stare at the refs rather than run down for D that is pretty embarrassing. I think the league should T up for talking to the refs strictly again. It would only be to the advantage of the Heat though LOL.

 

[Flauge]

On the all time top 15 thread, you said:

1a LeBron
1b Jordan

i also said that this would be true 10 years from now. implying that is my prediction in 10 years.

 

[BOTSLAYER]

in 10 years it will be LBJ considered #1 because blind MJ lovers will be literally blind and too old to use the internet.

 

[Flauge]

This is my last response on this. We clearly aren't going to see eye to eye.

Spo is very good
The Heat are very very good
The Spurs are very good

However. When I watch the way they played in games 2 and 4, I come away feeling cheated as a basketball fan. The Heat dominated those game because their energy level could not be matched. Spo's defense relies on speed and active hands, but the Heat have gotten used to playing through the motions at times because it is too easy. The Spurs embarrassed them in games 3 and 5 as a result.

Spo clearly knows what his team is not doing right, but he isn't able to get his team to play with the necessary energy every time they take the floor. I understand if the team comes out flat during a west coast swing in January, but the NBA Finals? Twice?

I am a high school coach. Some of LeBron and Wade's defensive habits are awful. They both overhelp at times, with their hands down when guarding shooters and neither of them get back on defense after they make a mistake on the other end. If one of my players does that, they are on the bench. No matter who it is. That type of effort is unacceptable.

Even at the end of game game 6 with like 2 minutes left, Wade turned the ball over in the left corner and started staring down the ref like he always does. Meanwhile, the Spurs were starting to take the ball out and would have had a advantage until freaking Udonnis Haslem stood up and yelled at Wade to "just play".

Sorry, but if the Heat players truly respected Spoelstra, those plays would not happen. It is obvious that he talks about that stuff to the team often, yet they still have poor habits and uneven effort.

we dont have to see eye to eye. it's a respectful disagreement. i just dont get why you can say the heat cheated you as a basketball fan because in games 2 and 4 because the heat blew them out but thought it was to easy and lost games 3 and 5. this is mindless thinking brought to you by ESPN. Why can the reverse not be true? Why can the Spurs have just not tried in game 2 because they already had the split? and then tried in game 3 and it was to easy so they didnt try in game 4? why do you feel that miami cheated you. after all... you ranked the Spurs as having a better front office than miami and went as far as to say 'it's not even close'...and ranked lebron just 7 and duncan 10.

you seem to hold miami to a higher standard than anyone else.

i completely agree with you that wade bitches at the officials to much.. and so does lebron. it pisses me off that lebron and him sometimes hang back on defense to stare at officials or complain to cameras/crowds. that happens... i see it. im just not going to put that on spoles. that's those players personalities. it's like blaming Larry Brown that rasheed got a technical. he is a poor coach. at the end of the day, the defensive scheme miami has put in has ranked them very high in statistical categories. agree to disagree.

 

[tlance]

we dont have to see eye to eye. it's a respectful disagreement. i just dont get why you can say the heat cheated you as a basketball fan because in games 2 and 4 because the heat blew them out but thought it was to easy and lost games 3 and 5. this is mindless thinking brought to you by ESPN. Why can the reverse not be true? Why can the Spurs have just not tried in game 2 because they already had the split? and then tried in game 3 and it was to easy so they didnt try in game 4? why do you feel that miami cheated you. after all... you ranked the Spurs as having a better front office than miami and went as far as to say 'it's not even close'...and ranked lebron just 7 and duncan 10.

you seem to hold miami to a higher standard than anyone else.

i completely agree with you that wade bitches at the officials to much.. and so does lebron. it pisses me off that lebron and him sometimes hang back on defense to stare at officials or complain to cameras/crowds. that happens... i see it. im just not going to put that on spoles. that's those players personalities. it's like blaming Larry Brown that rasheed got a technical. he is a poor coach. at the end of the day, the defensive scheme miami has put in has ranked them very high in statistical categories. agree to disagree.

I have to say I am a little jealous of you Flauge. I wish I felt as confident about the players/coaches/front office for my team as you do yours.

The reason I say I feel cheated is because I believe this team has the potential to be in the all time great category, but they just don't bring a consistent effort. If they did, they would be right there with anyone and I would be telling my Grandchildren about them someday. As is, they are a 2-time champ and deserving of a ton of credit, but they are not as dominant as they are capable of being. That to me is frustrating and I am not a Heat fan. I like seeing teams compete at their absolute best.

 

[trojanfan12]

I'll keep it shorter. You think people hate the Lakers because they are good, but people dislike the back to back champions and 3 year in a row finalists because of a TV show?

No, this what you don't understand. I don't care why people hate the Lakers!! I know they do, assume they have their own reasons and leave it at that!! And if, after all this time, you still think it's only about a t.v. show then your even dumber than I thought.

Ok The Laker fans resent the Heat/James because you were the darlings and the attention of the NBA until the day James said he was taking his talents to South Beach. It is what it us. If one lies for 3 years about the reasons, that doesn't make it true , does it?

Laker fans and others (believe it or not there are lots of non-Laker fans hate them too) hate the Heat for their own reasons. I have been very clear about why I don't like the Heat and have never waivered!! If you need to believe that I hate them for some other reason to make yourself feel better, then that's a you problem. The level of arrogance and narcissism that is required to try and tell others what their reasons for hating your team are, is simply breathtaking.

Heading in to 2010 FA, the Heat had Wade in his prime helping to recruit the best F A class ever ( and very successfully). Other then the Heats Big 3, who is in this great FA pool next summer?
You get James, you will quickly get my attention and a different point of view. He's not going to come to LA though. There is NO reason too.

As I have said, I don't know who all is in the next free agent class. I know Lebron is, I know Carmelo is and I'm sure if I did a little research, I could find everyone who is scheduled to be a free agent. And if you're so certain that Lebron isn't coming to L.A., why do you feel the need to keep telling everyone that he isn't coming to L.A.? As for why he would or would not, when Lebron himself starts telling you what his plans are, I'll start listening to what you have to say.

As far as history, which you keep mentioning, doesn't that mean in the past?
If Howard leaves, does that rank with what your perception of Laker history is all about?
If you can't sign your own, now, knowing that you still would have $$ next summer, then why should anyone believe it will be different next summer?

And why would anyone believe the Lakers wouldn't? Because one guy who can't decide between chocolate and vanilla at the ice cream shop didn't sign with the Lakers? As I said, the Lakers will have plenty of money available and will have no problem finding top free agents willing to take their money.

Wouldn't LA possibly be more appealing to James next summer if Howard was there?
Does Howard not know this?
Yet, he's much more then likely still leaving, so please tell me why?

Not necessarily. One thing that can be said about Lebron is that now that he has a taste of winning championships, he understands what type of mindset it takes. Dwight hasn't shown that mindset. D-Wade was willing to step back and let the Heat be "Lebron's team" in order to win a championship, when has Dwight shown that he would do the same. Also, Dwight needs the ball in the paint. A big part of Lebron's game is driving to the hoop. Can be kind of hard to do with Dwight in the way.

Lastly, for 3 years you have flopped big time in the playoffs, so no matter what you say, you are not contenders again until you actually contend.

When did I say the Lakers were contenders right now or for the last 3 years? I said they are very likely to be contenders sooner rather than later and said why. Your problem is that you are having a hard time accepting the Lakers will have the cap space to do exactly what the Heat just did and what it could mean for the Heat.

It's not happening next year. Reality is if Howard leaves you are much closer to a lottery team then a top 4 seed.

At what point did I say the Lakers would contend next year. I've said all along that even if Dwight re-signs, the Lakers are unlikely to contend until 2014-15 season. If Dwight re-signs, Kobe and everyone else comes back completely healthy and stays healthy all season, the Lakers would still be a dark horse at best. It's the following season that Lakers could put themselves back in contention.

And as for Lebron signing someplace other than Miami. I have said all along that I think it is likely that he finishes his career with Miami because I believe that Riley will figure out a way to get the pieces to put around Lebron so the Heat can continue to contend. However, if he slips up (not likely) or Arison boats keep sinking and he doesn't want to keep spending the money. Then Lebron will go where he feels he has the best chance to win more rings.

 

[Flauge]

I have to say I am a little jealous of you Flauge. I wish I felt as confident about the players/coaches/front office for my team as you do yours.

The reason I say I feel cheated is because I believe this team has the potential to be in the all time great category, but they just don't bring a consistent effort. If they did, they would be right there with anyone and I would be telling my Grandchildren about them someday. As is, they are a 2-time champ and deserving of a ton of credit, but they are not as dominant as they are capable of being. That to me is frustrating and I am not a Heat fan. I like seeing teams compete at their absolute best.

being a heat fan is frustrating. i wont deny that. the team certainly leaves you feeling that they should be able to challenge 72-10 and then 4,4,4,4 it's way to the finals. it feels that way. but this team does have issues. they really havent had a true center. birdman is the first they have had since big z and his 40 year old legs left and they got him off the NBA trash heap. wade is starting to get knee issues every season now (i hope it stops). they dont rebound particularly well. they are a small undersized team at alot of positions. roy hibbert looked like a hall of famer against them for six games. miami is the best in the NBA right now, but the team does have some holes that can be exploited. but as jalen rose said on one of the pacers game... miami has a weapon of mass destruction in lebron james that can cover it up.


let's say this heat team goes to the finals next year. that's 4 in a row. something that hasnt been done is about 30 years. if they win it.. that's 3 titles in a row and 4 straight appearances. you would have to go back to the 1960s.. almost 50 years to find a team with a better claim than that. if miami wins next year, which they will be the favorite, do they not qualify as an all-time team?

 

[starbigd]

Latest twitter rumors are that Dwight is leaning to Houston.......no surprise there.

 

[Flauge]

At what point did I say the Lakers would contend next year. I've said all along that even if Dwight re-signs, the Lakers are unlikely to contend until 2014-15 season. If Dwight re-signs, Kobe and everyone else comes back completely healthy and stays healthy all season, the Lakers would still be a dark horse at best. It's the following season that Lakers could put themselves back in contention.

And as for Lebron signing someplace other than Miami. I have said all along that I think it is likely that he finishes his career with Miami because I believe that Riley will figure out a way to get the pieces to put around Lebron so the Heat can continue to contend. However, if he slips up (not likely) or Arison boats keep sinking and he doesn't want to keep spending the money. Then Lebron will go where he feels he has the best chance to win more rings.

you said it twice

 

[tlance]

being a heat fan is frustrating. i wont deny that. the team certainly leaves you feeling that they should be able to challenge 72-10 and then 4,4,4,4 it's way to the finals. it feels that way. but this team does have issues. they really havent had a true center. birdman is the first they have had since big z and his 40 year old legs left and they got him off the NBA trash heap. wade is starting to get knee issues every season now (i hope it stops). they dont rebound particularly well. they are a small undersized team at alot of positions. roy hibbert looked like a hall of famer against them for six games. miami is the best in the NBA right now, but the team does have some holes that can be exploited. but as jalen rose said on one of the pacers game... miami has a weapon of mass destruction in lebron james that can cover it up.


let's say this heat team goes to the finals next year. that's 4 in a row. something that hasnt been done is about 30 years. if they win it.. that's 3 titles in a row and 4 straight appearances. you would have to go back to the 1960s.. almost 50 years to find a team with a better claim than that. if miami wins next year, which they will be the favorite, do they not qualify as an all-time team?

I think it depends on how they do it. It would be an all-time run or titles for sure, but to be in the discussion with the '87 Lakers or the '96 Bulls, they would have to exert a rare level of dominance over the league through both the regular season and play-offs. That probably won't happen because of Wade's health.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

At what point did I say the Lakers would contend next year. I've said all along that even if Dwight re-signs, the Lakers are unlikely to contend until 2014-15 season. If Dwight re-signs, Kobe and everyone else comes back completely healthy and stays healthy all season, the Lakers would still be a dark horse at best. It's the following season that Lakers could put themselves back in contention.

And as for Lebron signing someplace other than Miami. I have said all along that I think it is likely that he finishes his career with Miami because I believe that Riley will figure out a way to get the pieces to put around Lebron so the Heat can continue to contend. However, if he slips up (not likely) or Arison boats keep sinking and he doesn't want to keep spending the money. Then Lebron will go where he feels he has the best chance to win more rings.

2014 NBA Free Agents | HOOPSWORLD | Basketball News & NBA Rumors
I'll help you out. Here is the FA class of 2014.
Like I just posted on another thread, I'm assuming 2 things. James is not a Laker and Kobe still is.
Lets assume Kobe earns 7-10M/

Nash/Kobe would account for 17-20M of a probable 75M salary cap.

So, you felt the need to numerous times call me a moron for thinking the Lakers won't contend SOON.
Fill out the roster for me with this not so great FA class and show me what you envision the roster looking like.
What it will lead to is mediocre players being over paid.

 

[shitsho]

Latest twitter rumors are that Dwight is leaning to Houston.......no surprise there.

Just wait until the Lakers talk to him about how he should be grateful for the chance to play for them. I'm telling you Lakers have the mind game down pretty good.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Just wait until the Lakers talk to him about how he should be grateful for the chance to play for them. I'm telling you Lakers have the mind game down pretty good.

I think if he chooses LA, a big reason would be that down the road I hear he is interested in making movies, etc..
He might not want to burn that Hollywood bridge?

 

[trojanfan12]

On Spo:

Clearly, the guy can coach!! Is he on a Phil Jackson/Pop level yet? No. But that doesn't mean he can't or won't get there.

I think that the reason he doesn't get the respect that Heat fans feel he deserves is it is looked at as him being pulled from the video room and handed the "keys to the kingdom"!! Guess what? Early in his career, Riley was looked at in much the same way. A young coach who was pulled from the announcers booth and handed the "keys to the kingdom".

The proof is in what they do with the oppurtunity. Like Riley, Spoelstra seems to be making the most of his opportunity and may very well end up being talked about in the same breath as Phil, Riley and Pop (among others)!!

Spo has plenty of years left to polish his resume!! Maybe we can let him get a few more under his belt before worrying about his ranking!!

Also, as Phil Jackson has shown, when you get a team with the star power and talent that the Heat have, how well the coach handles the ego's in the locker room can say alot about whether or not a team can win a championship!!

 

[trojanfan12]

I think if he chooses LA, a big reason would be that down the road I hear he is interested in making movies, etc..
He might not want to burn that Hollywood bridge?

You could very well be right!! Jack Nicholson has already called him (love Dwight or hate him, how cool is that?) and execs from Time-Warner are supposed to be there as well to talk to him about doing something for them in the off-season which could lead to more money in his pockets!!

 

[trojanfan12]

2014 NBA Free Agents | HOOPSWORLD | Basketball News & NBA Rumors
I'll help you out. Here is the FA class of 2014.
Like I just posted on another thread, I'm assuming 2 things. James is not a Laker and Kobe still is.
Lets assume Kobe earns 7-10M/

Nash/Kobe would account for 17-20M of a probable 75M salary cap.

So, you felt the need to numerous times call me a moron for thinking the Lakers won't contend SOON.
Fill out the roster for me with this not so great FA class and show me what you envision the roster looking like.
What it will lead to is mediocre players being over paid.

I'm not playing with your assumptions because you want to try and put limits on what the Lakers or anyone else will or will not do.

The problem with trying to project out to next season is that we don't know what the Lakers or any team is likely to do until we see how next season plays out.

Re: the Lakers, there are so many things in play, who knows what they will do? Suppose Steve Nash decides to retire? What if Kobe, coming off of the achilles, can't play at a level that is acceptable to him and retires? What if he wants more money than a Lakers team looking at the future is willing to pay him?

All 3 of the big 3 in Miami will be free agents. What if 1, 2 or all 3 of them don't want to take less than max contracts a 2nd time or the Heat don't want to pony up the money? What will D-Wade have left after another 82 game season and likely another deep playoff run? In this past seasons playoffs he "played like D-Wade" in roughly every other game and the Heat barely escaped with the title. What if that isn't good enough next year, like it was this year?

What if the Lakers are able to do like Miami and get 2 or 3 players to take less than max contracts to play together in L.A.?

Either drop your "assumptions" which clearly are intended to bring about your desired outcome or the discussion isn't worth having!!

That is a pretty impressive class of free agents though!! Wouldn't be all that difficult to put a contending team together.

Another option would be for the Lakers to start the process in the 2014 class and then finish in the 2015 class of free agents. Lots of possibilities!!

 

[LAKERSUSCBAM]

The problem with trying to project out to next season is that we don't know what the Lakers or any team is likely to do until we see how next season plays out.

Gee that comment sounds awfully rational coming from a Lakers fan, what's wrong with you TrojanFan?! All Lakers fans are supposed to be doubters, haters, and stupid. You just broke that mold, LOL. Seems as if there are a bunch of gypsies on this board that can predict the Lakers' future, ha ha ha.

Either drop your "assumptions" which clearly are intended to bring about your desired outcome or the discussion isn't worth having!!

Good luck trying to convince with this statement....

Another option would be for the Lakers to start the process in the 2014 class and then finish in the 2015 class of free agents. Lots of possibilities!!

Imagine the Lakers' possibilities with their cache and cash from TWC deal....the haters know this so they're always looking to find any doomsday scenario for us, funny shit.

 

[BOTSLAYER]

On Spo:

I think that the reason he doesn't get the respect that Heat fans feel he deserves is it is looked at as him being pulled from the video room and handed the "keys to the kingdom"!!

This was a great post, and what I felt was very accurate. Except this. I think we could care less where our winning coach has come from and we greatly trust Riley's judgement. Our, or my problem, is that we as a team look very unmotivated to perform. We had 2 series go 7 games where all 3 teams involved won more than 1 blowout? How does that happen if not completely unmotivated? Not to mention the Bulls won game 1, in our building, with a D league team.

I'm not playing with your assumptions because you want to try and put limits on what the Lakers or anyone else will or will not do.

What if the Lakers are able to do like Miami and get 2 or 3 players to take less than max contracts to play together in L.A.?

LOL, this has happened once in the history of the league? Maybe they started a trend but I would not hold your breathe.

Either drop your "assumptions" which clearly are intended to bring about your desired outcome or the discussion isn't worth having!!

That is a pretty impressive class of free agents though!! Wouldn't be all that difficult to put a contending team together.

I do not think the stipulations are meant to be limiting but rather prove his point that you guys will not contend for a couple years by using the FAs available to you. Also you will have Kobe on your roster and probably Nash. 2 roster spots are not a big deal imo.

Also there are several other options of acquiring talent that the Lakers of old have been quite efficient at. Nobody gives short Buss that credit though.

I think there is a ton of talent in the FA market for you guys to build a team. Your roadblocks are Kobe's inability to accurately judge his own talent (to this date) and Short Buss's ability to field a team that can play together all the way from the Coach to the players who will be submissive to Kobe (getting D'Antoni rather than PJ or really anybody else is a joke).

 

[BOTSLAYER]

The players are there, but talent that looks great on paper (2012-13 Lakers and any team with Melo and a PG on it) do not mean that team will have chemistry.