So, Howard tells Rockets he wants a 3rd superstar?

[Clayton]

I meant to say 10 Lakers took out the better Nash team.

Whats the logic for saying that the 09 Lakers were better than the 10 Lakers? I know Hollinger has the 09 Lakers really, really high on his all time list but the 10 Lakers beat the Celtics and Artest > Ariza

 

[Heatles84]

Forget the 15 win season for obvious reasons, but besides that, Spoelstra grinded out a couple of 5 seeds with not a whole lot other then Wade.

I think they are both very good coaches, and maybe I am biased, but if I had to choose one or the other to lead my team, I take Spoelstra.

Actually, that 15 win season in 08 was Riley's. How Chicago got the number one pick in the lottery to take Derrick Rose is beyond me when they just barely missed the playoffs is beyond me.

 

[OutlawImmortal]

I meant to say 10 Lakers took out the better Nash team.

Whats the logic for saying that the 09 Lakers were better than the 10 Lakers? I know Hollinger has the 09 Lakers really, really high on his all time list but the 10 Lakers beat the Celtics and Artest > Ariza

Wrong, under Phil Jackson Ariza flourished.

 

[Heatles84]

On the former- Mike Dantoni was the guy that started this small ball rage, everyone else just fell in line with it....and that's not even Laker homerism, because I've wanted Dantoni gone for quite some time now....but he started a revolution with the Suns.

On the latter- there isn't anyone that would take Spoelstra over Doc(didn't read the past pages so if this has already been discussed, disregard). Doc is just the better coach, I don't know of anyone that would refute that. Spoelstra is earning his stripes, but I'd take Doc anyday

Well....Doc has been coaching for nearly a decade longer than Spoelstra. But if we're looking at terms of progress, then I'd have to say that Spo is definitely catching up. But you're right, Doc is the 2nd best coach in the league behind Pop. I put Spo at 3rd. Regardless of having Lebron, he's been able to use the small ball lineup rather effectively against bigger teams like the Bulls and Pacers to name a few.

 

[Heatles84]

He probably sits awake at night thinking: "I sure wish that trojanfan12 would like me"!!

I'm kind of happy you ditched the av of Lebron picking his nose as well. I'm not hoping you'll like Lebron and I'm not even going in that direction. It's more of a reminder that college football is about 2 months away. I hate this dead period in sports. Hockey should start in December and end in August. FCK!

 

[Heatles84]

shots fired

Shit. We got our own in the pidgeon bashing Shane Battier and hoping that Lebron leaves Miami so he can cheer on a mediocre Miami team again. There's some people that are just bat shit stupid nowadays. smfh

 

[Heatles84]

2001 Lakers. Dominant, talented, well coached
2008 Celtics. Probably would've been #1 if Ray Allen was more consistent leading up to the Finals
2000 Lakers. Probably could've been #1 in Kobe stayed healthy in the Finals
2010 Lakers. The injury of a role player on the Cs was the difference
2005 Spurs. The best of the boring teams
2004 Pistons. I don't think them beating the Lakers was a fluke
2013 Heat. Im trying not to overrate their regular season
2009 Lakers. I think this team would be easier to place if KG was healthy that year
2007 Spurs. I actually think the 09 Lakers took out the better Nash team
2012 Heat. Very hard to rate because OKC might not stand the test of time as a finals opponent
2003 Spurs. Top 2 MVP candidates collided but the East was weak back then
2006 Heat. DWade was Jordan-like in the playoffs..a bit of a fluke run
2011 Mavericks. Beat teams that weren't ready to take the title
2002 Lakers*

I just can't put the 04 Pistons past the 2013 or 2012 Heat team... I just can't. Here's my list.

2001 Lakers: I mean 16-1 is pretty ok.
2005 Spurs: Parker was still wet behind the ears, but Manu and Tim Duncan (best PF all-time) were in their primes and that supporting cast was just nuts. Plus gutting out that game 7 against the defending champs was classic. Glad history didn't repeat itself.
2013 Heat: That 27-game winning streak has to put them on this list and Ray Allen coming off the bench where he could start for most teams solidifies it. I blame complacency for going 5 with the Bulls and 7 for the Pacers. I feel they could've won in 6 against the Spurs had we stopped playing so lax on defense (Green and Neil).
2000 Lakers: Just felt like they belong here, still figuring it out and won their first.
2008 Celtics: They win 7 with every single team in the playoffs except for the Lakers in the Finals.
2012 Heat: Beat an inexperienced Thunder team in the Finals. Gentleman's sweep. Yawn
2003 Spurs: How they went 6 with Jersey...I dunno.
2002 Lakers: Sorry, but some can make the argument that the Kings were just as good. I'm not putting an * next to it though, that's just a cop out. That Lakers team was still fucking good and deserving of a title.
2009 Lakers: I just wasn't impressed by it. Maybe had KG been healthy and they met would've changed my tune.
2004 Pistons: They had the most balanced starting five. But I blame Shaq and Kobe's bullshit for not winning Malone one. Happy it happened because the Glove took his talents to....ok we won't go down that road. You know where he went.
2011 Mavs: They beat the favored big 3 and Dirk went out his mind. Not a knock on the Mavs, they were really good and they beat some good teams on the way. But it is what it is.
2006 Heat: Miami was the better team. First team to 4 wins and is the better team. Wade had one of the best Finals series of all-time. But if we're comparing teams of the decade then I can't put the Heat up there. It was Wade entering what seemed to have been his prime and everyone else on the decline.
2010 Lakers: Sorry I thought Boston was the better team until Perkins went down. For most of the series both teams were relatively healthy until game 6. Once again, not putting an *, but this is an opinion right?

 

[tlance]

Well....Doc has been coaching for nearly a decade longer than Spoelstra. But if we're looking at terms of progress, then I'd have to say that Spo is definitely catching up. But you're right, Doc is the 2nd best coach in the league behind Pop. I put Spo at 3rd. Regardless of having Lebron, he's been able to use the small ball lineup rather effectively against bigger teams like the Bulls and Pacers to name a few.

Spoelstra is a very strong coach, but I can't put him in the top 5 because he is unable to motivate his team to show up for every single game, even on a stage as large as the finals. Much of this falls on the players too, but the Heat were flat out not ready for games 3 and 5 vs. the Spurs.

The games were the Spurs got blown out it was the Heat playing great, not a lack of effort on the Spurs part. When the Heat were blown out, they looked disinterested.

The list is getting shorter, but here are a few coaches who are ahead of Spo at this point.

Pop
Thibs
Doc
Carlisle
M. Jackson


I would put Vogel on this list too if he hadn't handed away game 1 with Hibbert on the bench. Not all of these guys have the resume that Spo does, but they don't have LeBron either. Spo deserves a ton of credit for helping LeBron evolve, but there are some great coaches in the league today and Spo is merely a good one.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Spoelstra is a very strong coach, but I can't put him in the top 5 because he is unable to motivate his team to show up for every single game, even on a stage as large as the finals. Much of this falls on the players too, but the Heat were flat out not ready for games 3 and 5 vs. the Spurs.

The games were the Spurs got blown out it was the Heat playing great, not a lack of effort on the Spurs part. When the Heat were blown out, they looked disinterested.

The list is getting shorter, but here are a few coaches who are ahead of Spo at this point.

Pop
Thibs
Doc
Carlisle
M. Jackson


I would put Vogel on this list too if he hadn't handed away game 1 with Hibbert on the bench. Not all of these guys have the resume that Spo does, but they don't have LeBron either. Spo deserves a ton of credit for helping LeBron evolve, but there are some great coaches in the league today and Spo is merely a good one.

How can you blame Spoelstra for the players not seeming to play with the sense of urgency we all expected?
His job is to prepare the team to play, make proper adjustments, keep his composure both publicly and privately. As far as we know, he did all of this. It's on the players to prepare themselves mentally to play, and then bring that energy to the court.

While all the coaches you named are top ones and since the list is subjective, I'm not going to nitpick it, but how can you rip Vogel for not having Hibbert on the court in game 1, but then ignore the fact that Pops didn't have Duncan on the court when a rebound would have won the championship for the Spurs or the fact that Parker wasn't on the floor during the later stages of game 7 when the Spurs committed some key turnovers?

 

[redseat]

Its called loyalty to 1 team thru thick and thin.

Ive never understood "fans" who support more then 1 team thru a season. Sure after your team is booted I can see "going" for another team. But at the start of a season to have "2" teams I will never understand

I call this being a bangwagon fan.

 

[redseat]

How can you blame Spoelstra for the players not seeming to play with the sense of urgency we all expected?
His job is to prepare the team to play, make proper adjustments, keep his composure both publicly and privately. As far as we know, he did all of this. It's on the players to prepare themselves mentally to play, and then bring that energy to the court.

While all the coaches you named are top ones and since the list is subjective, I'm not going to nitpick it, but how can you rip Vogel for not having Hibbert on the court in game 1, but then ignore the fact that Pops didn't have Duncan on the court when a rebound would have won the championship for the Spurs or the fact that Parker wasn't on the floor during the later stages of game 7 when the Spurs committed some key turnovers?

This is the NBA why do they even have coaches? We all know the players run the team and make this own decisions despite what their coach says, unless its possibly Phil Jackson.

 

[Nooone]

So just out of curiosity... I live in wisconsin. I have always loved LeBron, hes been my favorite since the first time I saw him play. I always want the bucks to do well... but come on they are the bucks, one of the most horrific front offices ever. And that team is never gonna do anything.

So am I a band wagon fan because I have always liked LeBron, and in my spare time I want the bucks to do well? To me thats not so bad. I guess everyone has different opinions. I mean I care about the bucks, I like the bucks, I watch most of the games, its just hard to ALWAYS root for a team that has no chance of succeeding.

 

[redseat]

So just out of curiosity... I live in wisconsin. I have always loved LeBron, hes been my favorite since the first time I saw him play. I always want the bucks to do well... but come on they are the bucks, one of the most horrific front offices ever. And that team is never gonna do anything.

So am I a band wagon fan because I have always liked LeBron, and in my spare time I want the bucks to do well? To me thats not so bad. I guess everyone has different opinions. I mean I care about the bucks, I like the bucks, I watch most of the games, its just hard to ALWAYS root for a team that has no chance of succeeding.

You can like a player and all that's fine. and you don't sound like a person I would call a bandwagon fan. This is more of those people who have a team (just yse the Bucks as an example) but don't root for them yet root for a team that only wins. Now you don't have to like the team in the city or state you live in i don't take it that far... but constantly switching a team because said team is winning thats a bangwagoneer. again, this is not directed at you hockey878

 

[BOTSLAYER]

Be a band wagon fan or stick to your team forever. Tell anyone who has a problem with how you enjoy your sports to get a fucking life.

As for saying the Heat are not top 10 is kind of ridiculous. The only fair way to rate teams is their dominance over the rest of the league due to the ever changing salary cap rules aimed at creating parity and in this case attacking the Heat. If you want to ignore that then I will ignore sports science and they become top 5, easy.

 

[Flauge]

If Phil Jackson is the best (which I say he is)... why is he the best? Why is he better than say Riley or Pops? Riley and Pops never got Jordan. Riley only got Shaq for a little over 2 seasons. Pop never had him. Yet Phil is the best because of 11 rings.

Yet you guys arent going to respect Spoles 2 rings? His win %? Doc is better? Thibbs and Carlisle are better? None of those 3 has a better playoff record. Yet, Spoles is bashed for not having his team ready. But his win % is better? Of the 3 only thibs has a better regular season win %. By .023%.

Doc + Thibs + Carlisle = 2 rings. Spoles = 2 rings.

 

[Flauge]

Spoles is also 4-2 in playoff series vs Thibs + Carlisle + Doc.

 

[shitsho]

You can like a player and all that's fine. and you don't sound like a person I would call a bandwagon fan. This is more of those people who have a team (just yse the Bucks as an example) but don't root for them yet root for a team that only wins. Now you don't have to like the team in the city or state you live in i don't take it that far... but constantly switching a team because said team is winning thats a bangwagoneer. again, this is not directed at you hockey878

I have no problem with someone calling me a bandwagon fan. If thats the term that describes how I view sports, so be it. I love laughing at people that think because they only root for one team, they are magically endowed with more intelligence about the sport or have some sort of moral superiority. It has to be the dumbest reason of all time to call off a debate. I know the real reason it was a "distraction" that I root for 2 teams was because Raptor knew he was going to be exposed for being a stupid hater. I think its a spineless way to avoid a debate.

 

[tlance]

Spoles is also 4-2 in playoff series vs Thibs + Carlisle + Doc.

The coach's job is to get the most out of the players. Simply measuring Spo by his win loss record against his peers is lazy. Clearly, the Heat have more talent than any team Thibs, Doc or even Carlisle have led over the last 3 years, or any coach not named Scott Brooks, for that matter.

If Spoelstra goes on to win an astounding number of rings, whether with the Heat or with multiple franchises like PJ did, then he will continue to move up the list.

For now, I say that the 5 coaches I listed get more out of their teams than the sum of the parts. I am not sure that Spoelstra does that, at least not every night.

Also, truly great coaches have the courage to make what they feel is the right call, even when it flies in the face of conventional wisdom. Right or wrong, I respect Pop for having the courage to sit Duncan at the end of game 6 (clearly wrong in hindsight), just like I respect Bill Belichek for going for it 4th a 1 on their own 20 something vs. Peyton Manning and the Colts. I am pretty sure Spoelstra does not have the juice to make a decision like that, at least not yet.

PJ example: calling the game winning, last second play for Toni Kukoc instead of Pippen. When Pippen sulked, he took a seat on the bench.

Saying that the coach does not have any control over his team's lack of effort is also a cop out. 1 of two things are going on there:

1) The coach is not holding players accountable
2) The players don't fully respect the coach

 

[shitsho]

Be a band wagon fan or stick to your team forever. Tell anyone who has a problem with how you enjoy your sports to get a fucking life.

As for saying the Heat are not top 10 is kind of ridiculous. The only fair way to rate teams is their dominance over the rest of the league due to the ever changing salary cap rules aimed at creating parity and in this case attacking the Heat. If you want to ignore that then I will ignore sports science and they become top 5, easy.

2013 Heat are definitely in the top 10. How do almost break the record for consecutive wins in a season and win the championship and not be considered a great team?

 

[shitsho]

The coach's job is to get the most out of the players. Simply measuring Spo by his win loss record against his peers is lazy. Clearly, the Heat have more talent than any team Thibs, Doc or even Carlisle have led over the last 3 years, or any coach not named Scott Brooks, for that matter.

If Spoelstra goes on to win an astounding number of rings, whether with the Heat or with multiple franchises like PJ did, then he will continue to move up the list.

For now, I say that the 5 coaches I listed get more out of their teams than the sum of the parts. I am not sure that Spoelstra does that, at least not every night.

Also, truly great coaches have the courage to make what they feel is the right call, even when it flies in the face of conventional wisdom. Right or wrong, I respect Pop for having the courage to sit Duncan at the end of game 6 (clearly wrong in hindsight), just like I respect Bill Belichek for going for it 4th a 1 on their own 20 something vs. Peyton Manning and the Colts. I am pretty sure Spoelstra does not have the juice to make a decision like that, at least not yet.

PJ example: calling the game winning, last second play for Toni Kukoc instead of Pippen. When Pippen sulked, he took a seat on the bench.

Saying that the coach does not have any control over his team's lack of effort is also a cop out. 1 of two things are going on there:

1) The coach is not holding players accountable
2) The players don't fully respect the coach

Spo is a good coach now and getting better. Lets not pretend it has nothing to do with the talent on the team. He needs to learn how to motivate his players better so there is always a consistent effort level.