Nate Silver does the math: SGA is playing like MJ

[MAGA2024]

Worse yet these clowns give LeBron MORE credit for LOSING than they give Jordan (or any other legend) for WINNING.

This is why Bron Stans are by far the worst. They've lowered the standard of GOAT debates to such an insane degree. No other consensus GOAT in any other sport has a losing record in their championship rounds but we're supposed to make an exception in basketball for LeBron because...reasons. They've made losing acceptable as long as you have nice stats. But of course they would never apply this standard to anyone else.

Winning used to be the standard. Then these clowns came along to try to desperately lower the standard when their hero's Finals losses started piling up.

Yup... so true.

They are literally making excuse after excuse for LeBron losing and Jordan winning... yet they question the self-awareness of others.

lol

 

[dtgold88]

He joined a team that won 19-games the previous year and you think his goal was winning Championships, MVP's and Scoring titles while he was playing?

lolol

NO... his goal was to assess the talent and mindset of his team first-hand (ie; battling with them on the court) in order to determine which players are keepers and which are expendable, since he was an owner of the team.

What exactly are you trying to say/prove??

You want to hold it against 38-40 year old Jordan for not leading a 19-win team (before his arrival) to the playoffs YET you want to dismiss LeBron for not making the playoffs his first two years, for losing to lower seeds 4 times, for not making the playoffs in 2022 (with SIGNIFICANTLY more talent around him than Jordan had on the Wizards, etc).

It would be nice if you were more self aware and knew you were a walking contradiction.

lie rule again....who said his goal (or he expected) to win titles, MVPs or scoring titles? I'm realistic when it comes to MJ and not a walking double standard like you.

Stopped reading so rewrite without lying if you want.

 

[dtgold88]

HAHAHAHA... 30/7/6 on 45%/35%/88% = shitting the bed YET Jordan played alongside teammates who were vastly superior to all of his competition.

Sure thing... SMH

For Luka? Did not come close to playing up to par....especially in some of the losses. why you are a walking double standard. You want to blame the 40-year-old who went for 23/9/6 in the series and shot 50% overall and 33% from 3? Also averaged 2 blocks and nearly 2 steals per game.

again....at age 40.

 

[thunderc]

I wonder if Shai will be better at 40 than Jordan was.

 

[MAGA2024]

I have self control and, no, I did not read it. I can sometimes have a conversation with the incredibly irrational with an agenda like you but after so many lies I need to draw a line.

As to Lebron if you've read my comments not only am I not a fan I really don't like the guy. Too much of a drama queen and narcissist for me. But, sure, I can appreciate how great he was (in conversation for GOAT) and he helped the team I cheer for win a title I never thought I'd see.

I say this knowing that you might be confused by someone being able to see both sides in a discussion but for the rational and objective with no agenda it can be done.

All you/others in this thread have done is make excuse after excuse after excuse for LeBron losing as often as he has, while at the same time make excuse after excuse for Jordan winning as often as he did.

If you can't see the glaring flaw in that logic then I don't know what to tell you. That line of reasoning ALONE should prompt any rational (or objective) fan to realize that LeBron truly is not close to Jordan as GOAT.

 

[MAGA2024]

For Luka? Did not come close to playing up to par....especially in some of the losses. why you are a walking double standard. You want to blame the 40-year-old who went for 23/9/6 in the series and shot 50% overall and 33% from 3? Also averaged 2 blocks and nearly 2 steals per game.

again....at age 40.

Naaa na... you said Luka "shit the bed"... now you're back-tracking to say he didn't play up to par.

Shitting the bed was LeBron in the 2011 Finals, or Games 4-6 of the 2010 Semi's... Luka dropped 30/7/6 while SHARING the court with the most ball-dominating player of this generation. That's not close to shitting the bed... especially considering Luka out-produced every player on the opposing team.

And once again... the Lakers didn't just lose, they got embarrassed by an opponent they were expected/favored (by everyone) to beat... and last I checked LeBron is part of the team.

Again... in what world (besides in the mind of a LeBron Homer, which you claim not to be) should a loss like this NOT be held against LeBron ("and" as I also said multiple times, Luka as well... he's not exempt by any stretch. Neither is LeBron.)

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Naaa na... you said Luka "shit the bed"... now you're back-tracking to say he didn't play up to par.

Shitting the bed was LeBron in the 2011 Finals, or Games 4-6 of the 2010 Semi's... Luka dropped 30/7/6 while SHARING the court with the most ball-dominating player of this generation. That's not close to shitting the bed... especially considering Luka out-produced every player on the opposing team.

And once again... the Lakers didn't just lose, they got embarrassed by an opponent they were expected/favored (by everyone) to beat... and last I checked LeBron is part of the team.

Again... in what world (besides in the mind of a LeBron Homer, which you claim not to be) should a loss like this NOT be held against LeBron ("and" as I also said multiple times, Luka as well... he's not exempt by any stretch. Neither is LeBron.)

I'm curious, what does this excercise really do or mean? Jordan has been gone over 2 decades. We can argue on end but in no other sport is the achievements of current players constantly referred back to one player. Wayne Gretzky was more dominant than MJ and we don't constantly hear how a team winning a title or a player winning a MVP is dog shit because Gretzky did it best

Who the fuck cares honestly? MJ has zero impact on this years playoff whatsoever, and yet people like yourself keep injecting him at every turn. It is annoying.

 

[dtgold88]

All you/others in this thread have done is make excuse after excuse after excuse for LeBron losing as often as he has, while at the same time make excuse after excuse for Jordan winning as often as he did.

If you can't see the glaring flaw in that logic then I don't know what to tell you. That line of reasoning ALONE should prompt any rational (or objective) fan to realize that LeBron truly is not close to Jordan as GOAT.

Lie rule again. Need to start off your comments without lying so I can read them.

 

[dtgold88]

Naaa na... you said Luka "shit the bed"... now you're back-tracking to say he didn't play up to par.

Shitting the bed was LeBron in the 2011 Finals, or Games 4-6 of the 2010 Semi's... Luka dropped 30/7/6 while SHARING the court with the most ball-dominating player of this generation. That's not close to shitting the bed... especially considering Luka out-produced every player on the opposing team.

And once again... the Lakers didn't just lose, they got embarrassed by an opponent they were expected/favored (by everyone) to beat... and last I checked LeBron is part of the team.

Again... in what world (besides in the mind of a LeBron Homer, which you claim not to be) should a loss like this NOT be held against LeBron ("and" as I also said multiple times, Luka as well... he's not exempt by any stretch. Neither is LeBron.)

Correct......I'm an adult and if I make a mistake I'll just own it. Shit the bed was too far.

Try and stay focused, though, we are talking about Lebron now not a series from nearly 15 years ago (and I know he was pretty bad in the Dallas Finals series since I'm not afraid to call him out like you are with MJ.

To your last question in a world where he is 40 and had a pretty good series?

 

[dtgold88]

I wonder if Shai will be better at 40 than Jordan was.

he wont.

 

[tlance]

There you go (again) making excuses for LeBron when Vegas and all the analysts and experts had the Lakers winning the series AND you yourself (I think it was you?) claimed that the two teams were equal.

Well... if two "equal" teams play and one of them puts a beat-down on the other team in just 5 games, WHY do you believe that shouldn't be held against the team/players on the losing side? With two equal teams you'd expect a very long, very close, very competition series, no?

So why does LeBron (once again) get a pass... and BTW, Luka averaged 30/7/6 on 45%/35%/89% in the series, which is better than anyone on the T'Wolves put up.

As for the 2007 Cavs, I addressed that in my last post.

I don’t have to make excuses.

Basketball is a team sport. You are way overvaluing team accomplishment.

No individual player can ever win or lose a game by themselves.

Team accomplishment is absolutely an important part of the GOAT debate, but it is only part. There is a certain level of winning that a player needs to do to enter the conversation. But it isn’t simply about who has the most rings, otherwise Bill Russell would be the GOAT.

And anyone with an ounce of common sense knows that isn’t the case

 

[thunderc]

he wont.

I say he will

 

[dtgold88]

I say he will

should we get this pinned until Shai turns 40 and revisit?

 

[msgkings322]

I say he will

Shocking

 

[MAGA2024]

Correct......I'm an adult and if I make a mistake I'll just own it. Shit the bed was too far.

Try and stay focused, though, we are talking about Lebron now not a series from nearly 15 years ago (and I know he was pretty bad in the Dallas Finals series since I'm not afraid to call him out like you are with MJ.

To your last question in a world where he is 40 and had a pretty good series?

You're missing the point entirely... if LeBron is being considered for GOAT status than EVERYTHING matters. Sure he had a good series, for a 40 or a 30 year old... but he lost, again, to a team that his team was favored (by everyone) to win.

In a general sense, no big deal... but when you're evaluating someone for GOAT status, losing when you were supposed to win definitely matters because the guy he's being compared to never lost when he was supposed to win.

Why wouldn't that matter? It's not the be-all, but it matters... just like individual dominance, skills, stats, awards, team success, etc.

It all counts.

 

[MAGA2024]

Team accomplishment is absolutely an important part of the GOAT debate, but it is only part. There is a certain level of winning that a player needs to do to enter the conversation. But it isn’t simply about who has the most rings, otherwise Bill Russell would be the GOAT.

Team Accomplishments/Winning is absolutely important, as you said... and Jordan has a huge edge over LeBron.

Individual awards / accolades is also a major factor because it shows how dominating the player was/is "relative to" his peers... and Jordan comes out on top there as well. Individual skill favors Jordan (no weakness or flaws in his game), advanced stats/metrics favor Jordan, iconic/legendary moments and games favor MJ, Mike was more Clutch... and we could go on and on.

"Volume" stats is all LeBron has on Jordan. That's it, that's all.

The more appropriate debate is LeBron vs. Jabbar... Jordan is on a whole other level.

 

[DJ Fieri]

You're missing the point entirely... if LeBron is being considered for GOAT status than EVERYTHING matters. Sure he had a good series, for a 40 or a 30 year old... but he lost, again, to a team that his team was favored (by everyone) to win.

In a general sense, no big deal... but when you're evaluating someone for GOAT status, losing when you were supposed to win definitely matters because the guy he's being compared to never lost when he was supposed to win.

Why wouldn't that matter? It's not the be-all, but it matters... just like individual dominance, skills, stats, awards, team success, etc.

It all counts.

They lost because their rookie head coach used the same starting lineup in the 2nd half for 24 fucking minutes. This includes a 40yo and a 26yo that hasn't been 100% healthy since he returned earlier than he should have from an injury.

 

[Albuquerque Rams]

They lost because their rookie head coach used the same starting lineup in the 2nd half for 24 fucking minutes. This includes a 40yo and a 26yo that hasn't been 100% healthy since he returned earlier than he should have from an injury.

One game out of five, crybaby. Also, we all know Reddick is just a puppet; LeBron is the one with the power. He could have forced himself to take a rest if he really needed it that badly.

 

[dtgold88]

You're missing the point entirely... if LeBron is being considered for GOAT status than EVERYTHING matters. Sure he had a good series, for a 40 or a 30 year old... but he lost, again, to a team that his team was favored (by everyone) to win.

In a general sense, no big deal... but when you're evaluating someone for GOAT status, losing when you were supposed to win definitely matters because the guy he's being compared to never lost when he was supposed to win.

Why wouldn't that matter? It's not the be-all, but it matters... just like individual dominance, skills, stats, awards, team success, etc.

It all counts.

I feel like this might be your best "work" trying to hold it against a 40-year-old for his team only being the 3 seed and losing in round one, but making excuses for the 38-39 year old who in the weaker East could not even get to the postseaspon.

 

[dtgold88]

Team Accomplishments/Winning is absolutely important, as you said... and Jordan has a huge edge over LeBron.

Individual awards / accolades is also a major factor because it shows how dominating the player was/is "relative to" his peers... and Jordan comes out on top there as well. Individual skill favors Jordan (no weakness or flaws in his game), advanced stats/metrics favor Jordan, iconic/legendary moments and games favor MJ, Mike was more Clutch... and we could go on and on.

"Volume" stats is all LeBron has on Jordan. That's it, that's all.

The more appropriate debate is LeBron vs. Jabbar... Jordan is on a whole other level.

volume stats only? Not FG or 3 point %? No advanced stats in Lebron favor? No being able to drag lesser team to Finals? Never mind without Pippen holding his hand MJ never won more than 42 games?