Players frustrated with Scott Turner

[kbso83432]

 

[kbso83432]

This is on the heels of Keim's latest podcast where he says there are some coaches on this team that really need to have a good day Sunday, and left it at that.

 

[duke1861]

This is on the heels of Keim's latest podcast where he says there are some coaches on this team that really need to have a good day Sunday, and left it at that.

So one game overshadows 3 seasons of mediocrity? We are heading for 3 straight losing seasons. What is left to evaluate outside our new DL coach?
Literally, NOT one poster/fan has given me 1 reason why (outside of nepotism):

1. Scott Turner was hired
2. Scott Turner should be retained

Do you have an answer to those questions? I don't. His resume is not impressive and EVERY NFL job he has gotten is due to nepotism. Look it up yourself. His position coaching jobs in Cleveland, Minnesota, and CAR were all result of his own father being the OC at that time with the team. He was brought to WSH because of Rivera knowing him...pure and simple. The substandard results are predictable and I am surprised there has been so much support for him as is.

Scott Turner (American football) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Turner's Offense has put up the following numbers:

2020 = 25th: 20.9 points per game
2021 = 24th: 19.7 points per game
2022 = 25th: 18.4 points per game

I pulled this from ESPN. His offensive output continues to drop year over year. Dean and I have talked about this at length and he even agreed that Turner needs to go. I simply don't buy the excuses of COVID, OLine, no reliable QB, injuries, etc, anymore. Every team has excuses but we seem to rely on our excuses for some reason. Am I missing something?

Of course players are frustrated with Turner; I hope the fans are as well. There is simply NO reason he should have been hired over McConnell and there is simply NO reason he should be retained. What has he done to show improvement over 3 years? There is no data that shows it at all.

After 3 straight losing seasons (5 in total with some of the same coaches being on Rivera's staff), Rivera needs to look at every single coordinator and position coach. However, he is a dead man walking and will probably opt for salvaging relationships as he knows making major changes is pointless.

 

[kbso83432]

So one game overshadows 3 seasons of mediocrity? We are heading for 3 straight losing seasons. What is left to evaluate outside our new DL coach?
Literally, NOT one poster/fan has given me 1 reason why (outside of nepotism):

1. Scott Turner was hired
2. Scott Turner should be retained

Do you have an answer to those questions? I don't. His resume is not impressive and EVERY NFL job he has gotten is due to nepotism. Look it up yourself. His position coaching jobs in Cleveland, Minnesota, and CAR were all result of his own father being the OC at that time with the team. He was brought to WSH because of Rivera knowing him...pure and simple. The substandard results are predictable and I am surprised there has been so much support for him as is.

Scott Turner (American football) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Turner's Offense has put up the following numbers:

2020 = 25th: 20.9 points per game
2021 = 24th: 19.7 points per game
2022 = 25th: 18.4 points per game

I pulled this from ESPN. His offensive output continues to drop year over year. Dean and I have talked about this at length and he even agreed that Turner needs to go. I simply don't buy the excuses of COVID, OLine, no reliable QB, injuries, etc, anymore. Every team has excuses but we seem to rely on our excuses for some reason. Am I missing something?

Of course players are frustrated with Turner; I hope the fans are as well. There is simply NO reason he should have been hired over McConnell and there is simply NO reason he should be retained. What has he done to show improvement over 3 years? There is no data that shows it at all.

After 3 straight losing seasons (5 in total with some of the same coaches being on Rivera's staff), Rivera needs to look at every single coordinator and position coach. However, he is a dead man walking and will probably opt for salvaging relationships as he knows making major changes is pointless.

He did fire Mills. So I know Ron is capable of making tough decisions. I understand him bringing Scott. Most HC usually bring their staff or some semblance of it when they move. I do fault Ron for not keeping Kyle Smith and KOC, but I understand it. He wanted to run the show and Scott was his guy.

I called for Scott's job mid-season, and then he bounced back and called a great game. Can't remember which one. It seems like Scott wants to prove he's smarter than everyone else and it seems at times that he's learning on the job.

Players always know though. Players knew Gus was better than Heath. Players knew Zorn was in over his head. Players knew they had a better chance with Heinicke than Wentz.

If nine players have an issue with Scott, we probably should too.

 

[duke1861]

He did fire Mills. So I know Ron is capable of making tough decisions. I understand him bringing Scott. Most HC usually bring their staff or some semblance of it when they move. I do fault Ron for not keeping Kyle Smith and KOC, but I understand it. He wanted to run the show and Scott was his guy.

I called for Scott's job mid-season, and then he bounced back and called a great game. Can't remember which one. It seems like Scott wants to prove he's smarter than everyone else and it seems at times that he's learning on the job.

Players always know though. Players knew Gus was better than Heath. Players knew Zorn was in over his head. Players knew they had a better chance with Heinicke than Wentz.

If nine players have an issue with Scott, we probably should too.

Turner needs to go back to being a position coach to be honest as he is clearly not ready for an OC job. I was concerned and never on board with the hire as it made no sense to me.

I get Rivera bringing over familiar coaches to a certain extent. Bringing over most of the same coaches who helped get him canned in CAR was another red flag in my book. Outside of JCR, I believe all coaches were from his coaching tree. One would think he would go for the most talented coaches who fit his mindset and approach....but, he opted for yes men instead. That is one of the many reasons his coaching tenure has been a disaster.

Keeping Smith would have made sense as well, especially given the fact that he had ZERO front-office experience. That is my main problem with the coach-centric concept; one person has total control and there is no separation of responsibilities. You give Rivera a lot more credit (coaching and GM role) than I have and I get that. That being said, he is the only WSH coach in recent memory to not post a .500/winning season in his first 3 years on the job. I think you will be surprised how much better the team will perform and look once Rivera is gone and his numerous mistakes have been corrected. A competent GM and coach will do wonders. Look at how quickly the Giants have turned around. That should be our blueprint for success.

 

[kbso83432]

Turner needs to go back to being a position coach to be honest as he is clearly not ready for an OC job. I was concerned and never on board with the hire as it made no sense to me.

I get Rivera bringing over familiar coaches to a certain extent. Bringing over most of the same coaches who helped get him canned in CAR was another red flag in my book. Outside of JCR, I believe all coaches were from his coaching tree. One would think he would go for the most talented coaches who fit his mindset and approach....but, he opted for yes men instead. That is one of the many reasons his coaching tenure has been a disaster.

Keeping Smith would have made sense as well, especially given the fact that he had ZERO front-office experience. That is my main problem with the coach-centric concept; one person has total control and there is no separation of responsibilities. You give Rivera a lot more credit (coaching and GM role) than I have and I get that. That being said, he is the only WSH coach in recent memory to not post a .500/winning season in his first 3 years on the job. I think you will be surprised how much better the team will perform and look once Rivera is gone and his numerous mistakes have been corrected. A competent GM and coach will do wonders. Look at how quickly the Giants have turned around. That should be our blueprint for success.

Thats possible. I don't dismiss that at all.

 

[duke1861]

Thats possible. I don't dismiss that at all.

It is painful to see the Giants progress so quickly...I am not going to lie.

With another FA period and draft...they will get even better. It is going to be rough sledding the next few years in the division. The Eagles and Cowboys are excellent teams and the Giants are only going to get better and better.

That is why I am so frustrated that 2023 is a throwaway year with Rivera being in control yet again. I don't trust him to develop our players, draft well, secure a franchise QB, or utilize free agency wisely. As skinsdad said, real change won't happen until 2024...sigh

 

[kbso83432]

It is painful to see the Giants progress so quickly...I am not going to lie.

With another FA period and draft...they will get even better. It is going to be rough sledding the next few years in the division. The Eagles and Cowboys are excellent teams and the Giants are only going to get better and better.

That is why I am so frustrated that 2023 is a throwaway year with Rivera being in control yet again. I don't trust him to develop our players, draft well, secure a franchise QB, or utilize free agency wisely. As skinsdad said, real change won't happen until 2024...sigh

It's way to early to make any generalized proclamations about 23. You may be proven right......again, but I want to see how this off-season unfolds first.

 

[duke1861]

It's way to early to make any generalized proclamations about 23. You may be proven right......again, but I want to see how this off-season unfolds first.

I was talking about the new owner basically letting Rivera coach out the year because there is no time to bring in his/her hand-picked GM to run the show.

Outside of winning a SB, I cannot imagine the new owner coming in and letting Rivera continue to coach/GM past 2023. Given his poor coaching history, it would not make any sense to me.

 

[kbso83432]

I was talking about the new owner basically letting Rivera coach out the year because there is no time to bring in his/her hand-picked GM to run the show.

Outside of winning a SB, I cannot imagine the new owner coming in and letting Rivera continue to coach/GM past 2023. Given his poor coaching history, it would not make any sense to me.

Yeah, I get that. I was referring to the Skins not being able to compete in the NFC East next year. I'm not there yet.

 

[deanpet21]

No doubt Scott Turner should be fired.

 

[kbso83432]

No doubt Scott Turner should be fired.

I actually think he's gonna get fired.

 

[deanpet21]

I actually think he's gonna get fired.

He is going to be the scapegoat. RR and JDR aren't going anywhere. IF there wasn't an owner change, I could see RR getting fired but you never know. Heads have to roll from this off-season. CW, TH, and Turner should be all gone.

 

[kbso83432]

 

[kbso83432]

He is going to be the scapegoat. RR and JDR aren't going anywhere. IF there wasn't an owner change, I could see RR getting fired but you never know. Heads have to roll from this off-season. CW, TH, and Turner should be all gone.

I definitely think Heinicke is gone. Skins want him back, but I think Heinicke feels betrayed.

 

[duke1861]

Yeah, I get that. I was referring to the Skins not being able to compete in the NFC East next year. I'm not there yet.

Understood.

I see no reason why we would compete. We seem to have this mentality that we will improve while other teams will stay the same. The Giants will be even better.

There again, stranger things have happened.

 

[skinsdad62]

I definitely think Heinicke is gone. Skins want him back, but I think Heinicke feels betrayed.

the thing that wanted me to continue with falco isnt that i feel he is a bonafide starting qb . said that over and over again ad nauseum. its that wince may have the better physical attributes but mentally he cant bounce back from bad plays and he plays like he is sinking in quicksand . falco can shake bad plays off and that is why he is liked .

dean told me he didnt care about the locker room but look at it now . they feel the coaching betrayed them and going to wince is a part of that

yes i can see falco leaving because he should have gotten the chance to sink or swim but when you pulled him from the 49ers game you lost him and the team

 

[skinsdad62]

Understood.

I see no reason why we would compete. We seem to have this mentality that we will improve while other teams will stay the same. The Giants will be even better.

There again, stranger things have happened.

duke , we did compete , dont lose site of that we lost . we had opportunity and we were in it ,

 

[kbso83432]

the thing that wanted me to continue with falco isnt that i feel he is a bonafide starting qb . said that over and over again ad nauseum. its that wince may have the better physical attributes but mentally he cant bounce back from bad plays and he plays like he is sinking in quicksand . falco can shake bad plays off and that is why he is liked .

dean told me he didnt care about the locker room but look at it now . they feel the coaching betrayed them and going to wince is a part of that

yes i can see falco leaving because he should have gotten the chance to sink or swim but when you pulled him from the 49ers game you lost him and the team

Imo Ron was in a no win situation. Team hadn't won a game in a month. Couldn't beat the Giants. He gambled with his season and lost. He has to own it now. Part of the job description.

 

[duke1861]

duke , we did compete , dont lose site of that we lost . we had opportunity and we were in it ,

Let me clarify.

I see hurts improving next year and an already loaded eagles team getting better. They have one of the top GMs in football. Do they not have multiple first round picks this year?

The cowboys will be better no doubt. They will most likely have a full year of Dak. Their defense will always keep them competitive.

The giants simply need more talent. They have the coach and the GM already. With another free agent class and draft, they will improve.

Now on to our commanders. They are on target for 3 straight losing seasons with getting 7 wins. Rivera will have a 4th off-season to improve the team. Can he do it? Yes, it's possible. Will he? I doubt he will. If he hasn't in 3 years, why would he now? He also will be the GM during an ownership transition. Again, what has he shown previously that would lead us to believe that he will coach and assemble a winning roster?

The facts are these: we have the worst head coach, worst GM, and worst starting qb in the entire division. Things will get better, but I am not seeing a path for improvement in 2023. I think some of our fans and posters believe we are better than we really are. It happens every year. Keep in mind, we could only muster 7 wins with the easiest schedule in football this year.