What's Fair

[SF11704]

We're all Giant fans so this should be a real interesting discussion for us ....
Timmy filed for arbitration. He made 13.1M last year. We all feel that it would be wise to try and lock him up on a long term deal. I'm not sure that's really what he wants. As a 'premium' player he can go through this two year cycle and I don't see him ever being a loser. If he doesn't get what he thinks is fair then he simply walks the following year. He'll never be without offers.

What do we think is fair for a two year contract and then again for maybe a 5-7 year deal. I think he's going to ask for somewhere in the neighborhood of
18M per year if we can't sign him long term.

On another note - what if we had the ability to go 140M - 160M over 7 years ... but only one SP .... Timmy or Cainer ...

 

[Heathbar012]

We're all Giant fans so this should be a real interesting discussion for us ....
Timmy filed for arbitration. He made 13.1M last year. We all feel that it would be wise to try and lock him up on a long term deal. I'm not sure that's really what he wants. As a 'premium' player he can go through this two year cycle and I don't see him ever being a loser. If he doesn't get what he thinks is fair then he simply walks the following year. He'll never be without offers.

What do we think is fair for a two year contract and then again for maybe a 5-7 year deal. I think he's going to ask for somewhere in the neighborhood of
18M per year if we can't sign him long term.

On another note - what if we had the ability to go 140M - 160M over 7 years ... but only one SP .... Timmy or Cainer ...

I think 18 would be a discount. Cole just got 15. 7 at 160 sounds about right, but if it can only go to one, I'd take Cain. Of course, still sign Timmy to a one-year, but he would likely get more back in trade (2 Cys will do that). Obviously, I hope they lock up both, and then lock up MadBum in a couple of years, too. Hopefully, Surkamp and Crick will end up being unbelievable 4 and 5 guys, eventually. We shall see.

 

[tzill]

We're all Giant fans so this should be a real interesting discussion for us ....
Timmy filed for arbitration. He made 13.1M last year. We all feel that it would be wise to try and lock him up on a long term deal. I'm not sure that's really what he wants. As a 'premium' player he can go through this two year cycle and I don't see him ever being a loser. If he doesn't get what he thinks is fair then he simply walks the following year. He'll never be without offers.

What do we think is fair for a two year contract and then again for maybe a 5-7 year deal. I think he's going to ask for somewhere in the neighborhood of
18M per year if we can't sign him long term.

On another note - what if we had the ability to go 140M - 160M over 7 years ... but only one SP .... Timmy or Cainer ...

I think a four year deal for 90 is about right. That gives us his first two FA years and gives him 4 years of security. I wouldn't go longer than that and Timmy won't go shorter. Maybe 5/100.

 

[SFGRTB]

Tim is making at least 20 million next year no matter how you slice it. It's tough to say what they are going to do though. Reports say 2 different things, Tim wants an 8 year deal, Giants are shooting for 5 or so. Or also, Tim wants to continue year-to-year and the Giants haven't had any talks yet.

Ideally, Giants sign him for 5 years tomorrow for 110 million. And today the Giants sign Cain to an 6 year 120 million...

I'd rather have the Giants have Cain long term than Timmeh, if I REALLY had to choose. Tim could get a greater return for him star power if we decided to trade him and Cainer is a straight horse.

EDIT: Okay, maybe Cain gets 100 million, based on Weaver's contract

 

[Heathbar012]

Too much agreement. Rep all around. Let's get this season started already.

 

[tzill]

Tim is making at least 20 million next year no matter how you slice it. It's tough to say what they are going to do though. Reports say 2 different things, Tim wants an 8 year deal, Giants are shooting for 5 or so. Or also, Tim wants to continue year-to-year and the Giants haven't had any talks yet.

Ideally, Giants sign him for 5 years tomorrow for 110 million. And today the Giants sign Cain to an 6 year 120 million...

I'd rather have the Giants have Cain long term than Timmeh, if I REALLY had to choose. Tim could get a greater return for him star power if we decided to trade him and Cainer is a straight horse.

EDIT: Okay, maybe Cain gets 100 million, based on Weaver's contract

I'd be very careful about contracts longer than 4-5 years. How about Timmy 4/90 and Cainer 4/80?

 

[Heathbar012]

I'd be very careful about contracts longer than 4-5 years. How about Timmy 4/90 and Cainer 4/80?

I think all of us would be fine with that (no matter how inconsequential our opinions are). Sabey-Sabes, too, most likely. Timmy, Cain and their agents? Hopefully. That is some good money before endorsements... after them, too.

 

[SFGRTB]

I'd be very careful about contracts longer than 4-5 years. How about Timmy 4/90 and Cainer 4/80?

True true. I might still toss in that extra year for Cain, based on his longevity on the organization and for respect. Plus, he'd be 32 (hopefully 33) by the time the contract runs out, still a solid age.

But yes, both those would be very ideal and it would ensure Timmeh-Cainer-MadBum wrath on the NL for 4 years.

 

[SF11704]

Wow - everyone seems to be on the same page ... in the same book I might add! I'm also against anything over 4 years. It just seems so risky when you're dealing with an athlete, especiallly a pitcher. Any kind of an arm/hand injury really are a cause for concern. Like most here if I had to extend one SP long term I'd opt for Cainer. You just get the impression he'll be pushing 200 innings at 37-38 years old. I'm also very taken by MadBum's ability. When all is said and done he may prove the be the best of the three. If we can hold on to all three for the next 4 years ....... it will be fun watching this rotation perform .....

 

[tzill]

Wow - everyone seems to be on the same page ... in the same book I might add! I'm also against anything over 4 years. It just seems so risky when you're dealing with an athlete, especiallly a pitcher. Any kind of an arm/hand injury really are a cause for concern. Like most here if I had to extend one SP long term I'd opt for Cainer. You just get the impression he'll be pushing 200 innings at 37-38 years old. I'm also very taken by MadBum's ability. When all is said and done he may prove the be the best of the three. If we can hold on to all three for the next 4 years ....... it will be fun watching this rotation perform .....

This. Rep.

 

[msgkings322]

Not to add to the pee in the cheerios but of course we all want 4 year deals for the pitchers. But that's not even CLOSE to the market. They could both easily get 5-7 year deals from any number of teams.

We may not want to play, but that's what it costs. And I agree Cain is the better to keep if we need to only keep one. I'd be ok giving 5 years to both, because we'd bloody well have to. At least. 6 for Cain probably.

But both guys when they do sign the long deals will get 5+ years, either from us or elsewhere.

 

[tzill]

Not to add to the pee in the cheerios but of course we all want 4 year deals for the pitchers. But that's not even CLOSE to the market. They could both easily get 5-7 year deals from any number of teams.

We may not want to play, but that's what it costs. And I agree Cain is the better to keep if we need to only keep one. I'd be ok giving 5 years to both, because we'd bloody well have to. At least. 6 for Cain probably.

But both guys when they do sign the long deals will get 5+ years, either from us or elsewhere.

Not this offseason they can't. That's our leverage. If either or both insist on 7 or 8 year deals, I'd expect a trade. 4 years still leaves them FAs in the prime of their careers. I don't think it's that unlikely. We shall see.

 

[Stokes1931]

We all know how well the last seven year deal Sabey-Sabes negotiated worked out. (OK, it was his bosses who did the dirty on that one, but still.)

I think 4 year deals would be terrific. But then, what would we talk about in the off-season?

 

[tzill]

We all know how well the last seven year deal Sabey-Sabes negotiated worked out. (OK, it was his bosses who did the dirty on that one, but still.)

I think 4 year deals would be terrific. But then, what would we talk about in the off-season?

Lack of hitters?

Rotten luck with injuries?

Panda's weight?

 

[dredinis21]

I would love to sign MadBum to a 6-7 yr deal for relatively cheap, buying out his last control years and a couple of FA years on the cheap. We still control him for another 4 yrs I believe so the security of a multi-year deal may be enticing to MadBum.

 

[tzill]

I would love to sign MadBum to a 6-7 yr deal for relatively cheap, buying out his last control years and a couple of FA years on the cheap. We still control him for another 4 yrs I believe so the security of a multi-year deal may be enticing to MadBum.

I understand your sentiment, but I'm against 7 year contracts for anyone, even Timmy. Two years from now, I'd entertain a 4 or 5 year deal for him, though.

Let's hope that is a REAL EXPENSIVE contract b/c he's won a CY or two...

 

[msgkings322]

Lack of hitters?

Rotten luck with injuries?

Panda's weight?

The A's horning in on our turf?

Our second championship?

Bonds' HOF chances?

 

[CameronFrye]

I understand your sentiment, but I'm against 7 year contracts for anyone, even Timmy. Two years from now, I'd entertain a 4 or 5 year deal for him, though.

Let's hope that is a REAL EXPENSIVE contract b/c he's won a CY or two...

It's called collusion when all owners get together and make a pact not to make stupid decisions.

But I wish that more owners would come to the conclusion on their own that 7-year (and longer) deals for players are a stupid idea - especially pitchers.

 

[tzill]

It's called collusion when all owners get together and make a pact not to make stupid decisions.

But I wish that more owners would come to the conclusion on their own that 7-year (and longer) deals for players are a stupid idea - especially pitchers.

As it should be. I'm not against OTHER clubs making stupid long term contract decisions, I just don't want SabeySabes to do so. Comparative advantage and all...

 

[CameronFrye]

As it should be. I'm not against OTHER clubs making stupid long term contract decisions, I just don't want SabeySabes to do so. Comparative advantage and all...

The only downside to Sabean not making those contract decisions is the initial pain when we lose out on much-needed FAs or - more painful - when we eventually lose one of our own to a big-spending team.

I guess this all boils down to the fact that I wish no one would give out stupid contracts because I don't trust Sabean to be able to build a championship team based on second-tier FAs. As long as he resorts to 3-year and 4-year deals, that's what the Giants are going to get.