The Stand

[calsnowskier]

The friendship between Nick and Tom was also a big part of the book, and it's been pretty much an afterthought in this series.

Tom has also been somewhat glossed over. I think Flagg has said “M-O-O-N” more than Tom has.

I have used “M-O-O-N! That spells...” in my everyday life for 30 years. How can you ignore such an iconic phrase?

 

[returnofjakedog]

Don’t wait until episode 7 to introduce Trashy?

Yep. It seems that his part has been cut back. But he always was a deus ex machina in the story so they figured it was ok to give us only enough to define him.

Additionally, this week seems to be the actual "conclusion" as it is titled "The Stand" while the final episode is an epilog(?) called "Coda: Frannie in the Well".
So in the 90s version they had 4 episodes, and 6 hours. This new series has 9 hours and somehow feels like they cut even more of the story. Am I wrong here?

 

[calsnowskier]

Yep. It seems that his part has been cut back. But he always was a deus ex machina in the story so they figured it was ok to give us only enough to define him.

Additionally, this week seems to be the actual "conclusion" as it is titled "The Stand" while the final episode is an epilog(?) called "Coda: Frannie in the Well".
So in the 90s version they had 4 episodes, and 6 hours. This new series has 9 hours and somehow feels like they cut even more of the story. Am I wrong here?

We were younger when the original came out. And the book was fresher in my mind at that time. I suspect the original has been romanticized in my mind over the years. But I also see in my mind Jamey Sheridan as Flagg. I had a hard time accepting Matthew McConaughey as him in The Dark Tower because Sheridan is too burned in my mind. That has been burned in for almost 30 years. Gary Sinise IS Stu Redmond. Molly Ringwald IS Franny.

 

[returnofjakedog]

Well, some good moments in the last episode, but also some schlocky crap.

Plus+
*Skarsgard was allowed to ham it up a little.
*The Nadine fall was nicely done, some nice graphic kills in the final "Stand", the Trashman radiation burns were pretty awesome.
........so mostly, the fxs were good, but even there some cgi fail.

Minus-
*The Lloyd and Julie characters continued to be complete shit.
*Stu and the wolf attack thing was really poorly done.
*In the middle of some decent fxs there is some shitty cgi stuff going on.

Continues to be average at best.

I have no idea how they are going to drag out 1 more entire episode on the epilog. 60 minutes of them talking around the giant table with translucent holograms of those that died floating by? Spend 40 minutes watching Stu and Tom limp back with the dog? They could have used the extra time to give us more backstory that was left out before, and taken 10 minutes to tie up what is left of the story at this point!

Oh well. Maybe they will get it right on the 3rd try in 15-20 years from now.

 

[nynasty]

Saw that the finale screenplay was actually written by King, so was hopeful it might put a good ending on what's been a pretty blah re-telling.


Nope.


Pretty disappointing. I think the 90s mini-series was better, and I didn't care much for that one either.

 

[chappee11]

Saw that the finale screenplay was actually written by King, so was hopeful it might put a good ending on what's been a pretty blah re-telling.


Nope.


Pretty disappointing. I think the 90s mini-series was better, and I didn't care much for that one either.

This was SUCH an epic book, it was always going to be nearly impossible to get it onto the screen. The 90’s version was pretty decent, I thought. I wasn’t even going to pay attention to this one, however. I’m sure they’ve desecrated it further with woke nonsense, as well.

King wrote the teleplay for the 90’s series, btw. And the whole thing is on YouTube. Probably better to stick with this one.

 

[chappee11]

We were younger when the original came out. And the book was fresher in my mind at that time. I suspect the original has been romanticized in my mind over the years. But I also see in my mind Jamey Sheridan as Flagg. I had a hard time accepting Matthew McConaughey as him in The Dark Tower because Sheridan is too burned in my mind. That has been burned in for almost 30 years. Gary Sinise IS Stu Redmond. Molly Ringwald IS Franny.

The original cast was really good. Sinise was the best of them all, IMO, but there were some great performances in that version.

 

[returnofjakedog]

This was SUCH an epic book, it was always going to be nearly impossible to get it onto the screen. The 90’s version was pretty decent, I thought. I wasn’t even going to pay attention to this one, however. I’m sure they’ve desecrated it further with woke nonsense, as well.

King wrote the teleplay for the 90’s series, btw. And the whole thing is on YouTube. Probably better to stick with this one.

They really didn't "desecrate it further with woke nonsense". The only character they changed that could be construed in such a way would be Larry, and the change is irrelevant and not preachy so it really didn't matter. I even thought that the actor did a better job than the last one (maybe just given more to do?) so I don't feel the casting had anything to do with it. Sorry to say it, but it is kinda lame that to jump to this assumption without actually having seen it.

No, this one failed on it's own artistic merits, not some imaginary offense that never actually happened. The jumping back and forth in the story timeline was the worst of the offenses.

Also, too many people are claiming this version is bad because the original miniseries was great. It wasn't. The original miniseries had a great first half and a shitty second half. However it is better than the remake and that is due largely to the new version's :
1) storyline timeframe jumping, which was a horrible idea,
2) lack of time and focus on the initial outbreak and related chaos, and
3) the horrible portrayl of Lloyd (and Julie to a certain extent) and his surrounding scenes in Vegas.
Change those 3 things and the 2 versions would have been comparable quality wise.

Some performances in the new version were as good or better than the original. Some in the original were better than the new. Kinda a mixed bag there.
Casting and performance evaluation (just my opinion):
*Sinise > Marsden. Marsden was also good but Sinise is just a better actor
*Original Flagg = Skarsgard. I don't feel either was better or worse.
*Rob Lowe < New Nick. I already went over this. Lowe was a prettyboy miscast.
*Original Mother A > Goldberg. A miscast on the new one. Whoppi just didn't work in the role.
*Ringwald < New Frannie. Sorry calno! Molly isn't a good actress. The new chick was much better! (again, just my opinion)
*Old Harold < New Harold. Another miscast by the original. Same reason as the Lowe miscast. Sticking a few fake pimples on the "Parker Lewis Can't Lose" dude doesn't suddenly make him feel like he would be an outcast. I cbuysomewhat buy the new guy as an actual misfit though.
*Old Larry < New Larry. Given more to do in the new version? Larry's hit song was certainly better in the new version.
*Old Nadine < Heard. I don't like Amber Heard but she was a bit better, probably for the same reason as Larry: given more to do in this version.
*Old Tom Cullen > New T.C.: opposite of Larry and Nadine as they gave Tom less in this version.
Old Trashman > New Trashman: Not by a lot though.
Old Lloyd >>>> New Lloyd. My biggest gripe with the new characters but it is the director's fault more than that actor's.

I've heard some people clammer for a re-cut of the new version to remove the timeline jumping. That would be a big improvement.

So, the additional story added by King on Stu and Frannie's trip back to Maine. It wasn't bad but it felt unnecessary and the time could have been used to flesh out the earlier story better instead. Then they just left the story hanging........with a new, very young Mother Abigail?? Not sure what that was.

The Flagg ending up on the island with the natives seems weird but apparently it was the original ending to the book that King and the editor decided to remove. So that is interesting.

Bottom line: The book >>>>>> original miniseries > new miniseries.

Try again in 12-15 years. Give it a full series of 20+ hours and maybe you can do the book justice.

 

[calsnowskier]

I don’t agree with everything you say, but overall, a good breakdown.

But how can you say the “new” Baby Can You Dig Your Man is better than the ”old” Baby Can You Dig Your Man? Did we even hear it in the new version? As I remember it (25 years in my rear view mirror), the song was somewhat prominent in the original. I think it was only as distant background noise in this version.

I also completely agree that that this was not “woke-ified”. Making Larry black had no bearing on the story at all, just like him being white in the original had no bearing at all. I had absolutely zero issue with the casting. Both actors are essentially nobodies, so neither brought baggage into the role.

The new take on Lloyd made no sense. In the original, he was an older mob lieutenant who was a bad guy in regular society. But you could see as he slowly realized that Flagg was truly BAD. There was none of that self awareness in this version. He was just a drug-addled millennial who got into a bad situation and essentially sold his soul to the devil. His “face turn” came out of nowhere. He wasn’t struggling with what Flagg was doing before his turn. He was just a sniveling coward. In the original, you saw that he actually struggled with what was happening. I think some of that can be blamed on the director, but the acting also had a lot to do with it, I think. Ferrar was a very good actor (RIP).

Nadine did have a bigger role in the this version, and her story is probably better here. Like I mentioned earlier, though, I blame some of my dislike of the character in the original to my dislike of San Giacomo. She always kinda bothered me as an actress. But I do think that her death scene was better than Heard’s. The trope camera shot of her falling backward off the balcony was a nice shot. “MY LIFE FOR YOU......”

The new Nick was worthless. Again, I am not sure they can portray his importance to the story in a tv show. It was all imagery and experience, and how others reacted to his presence rather than what you could actually see him do. That’s why I think getting a BIG name to play him in the original was a smart play. It amplified how important the character is supposed to be. Casting a complete no name in the role leaves the viewer not familiar with the story thinking he was just an extra on steroids. And reducing Tom’s role adds to the uselessness of Nick.

 

[calsnowskier]

And I wish they had some kind of Easter egg / fan service mention of the Crimson King. Making Flagg the actual Devil here takes the story out of Kings larger multi-verse.

 

[chappee11]

Y

They really didn't "desecrate it further with woke nonsense". The only character they changed that could be construed in such a way would be Larry, and the change is irrelevant and not preachy so it really didn't matter. I even thought that the actor did a better job than the last one (maybe just given more to do?) so I don't feel the casting had anything to do with it. Sorry to say it, but it is kinda lame that to jump to this assumption without actually having seen it.

No, this one failed on it's own artistic merits, not some imaginary offense that never actually happened. The jumping back and forth in the story timeline was the worst of the offenses.

Also, too many people are claiming this version is bad because the original miniseries was great. It wasn't. The original miniseries had a great first half and a shitty second half. However it is better than the remake and that is due largely to the new version's :
1) storyline timeframe jumping, which was a horrible idea,
2) lack of time and focus on the initial outbreak and related chaos, and
3) the horrible portrayl of Lloyd (and Julie to a certain extent) and his surrounding scenes in Vegas.
Change those 3 things and the 2 versions would have been comparable quality wise.

Some performances in the new version were as good or better than the original. Some in the original were better than the new. Kinda a mixed bag there.
Casting and performance evaluation (just my opinion):
*Sinise > Marsden. Marsden was also good but Sinise is just a better actor
*Original Flagg = Skarsgard. I don't feel either was better or worse.
*Rob Lowe < New Nick. I already went over this. Lowe was a prettyboy miscast.
*Original Mother A > Goldberg. A miscast on the new one. Whoppi just didn't work in the role.
*Ringwald < New Frannie. Sorry calno! Molly isn't a good actress. The new chick was much better! (again, just my opinion)
*Old Harold < New Harold. Another miscast by the original. Same reason as the Lowe miscast. Sticking a few fake pimples on the "Parker Lewis Can't Lose" dude doesn't suddenly make him feel like he would be an outcast. I cbuysomewhat buy the new guy as an actual misfit though.
*Old Larry < New Larry. Given more to do in the new version? Larry's hit song was certainly better in the new version.
*Old Nadine < Heard. I don't like Amber Heard but she was a bit better, probably for the same reason as Larry: given more to do in this version.
*Old Tom Cullen > New T.C.: opposite of Larry and Nadine as they gave Tom less in this version.
Old Trashman > New Trashman: Not by a lot though.
Old Lloyd >>>> New Lloyd. My biggest gripe with the new characters but it is the director's fault more than that actor's.

I've heard some people clammer for a re-cut of the new version to remove the timeline jumping. That would be a big improvement.

So, the additional story added by King on Stu and Frannie's trip back to Maine. It wasn't bad but it felt unnecessary and the time could have been used to flesh out the earlier story better instead. Then they just left the story hanging........with a new, very young Mother Abigail?? Not sure what that was.

The Flagg ending up on the island with the natives seems weird but apparently it was the original ending to the book that King and the editor decided to remove. So that is interesting.

Bottom line: The book >>>>>> original miniseries > new miniseries.

Try again in 12-15 years. Give it a full series of 20+ hours and maybe you can do the book justice

You’ll have to forgive my cynicism on the matter. I’ve just seen too many remakes/updates that end up sucking because they are trying to be as woke as possible. Ghostbusters is a great example. So is Terminator. And Men In Black. And Ocean’s 11. Star Wars etc... I was just assuming that they made Tom and Nick gay lovers or Mother Abigail trans this time around. If they haven’t yet, they will in 12-15 years for the next one. Cheers!

 

[returnofjakedog]

Y

You’ll have to forgive my cynicism on the matter. I’ve just seen too many remakes/updates that end up sucking because they are trying to be as woke as possible. Ghostbusters is a great example. So is Terminator. And Men In Black. And Ocean’s 11. Star Wars etc... I was just assuming that they made Tom and Nick gay lovers or Mother Abigail trans this time around. If they haven’t yet, they will in 12-15 years for the next one. Cheers!

I gotcha and agree with you on the vast majority. But it didn't really happen here so the conclusion was premature reaction.
I don't like the heavy handed message stuff either. But even those messages can be done in a decent manner.

In 12-15 years the push for social change might be a bit more subdued. Hopefully they can do a dark, violent version that focuses on the story.

 

[returnofjakedog]

And I wish they had some kind of Easter egg / fan service mention of the Crimson King. Making Flagg the actual Devil here takes the story out of Kings larger multi-verse.

I don't think they made Flagg the actual Devil here. He was talking about being the "son of" during at least one of his speeches. I assumed he meant the son of Satan.

 

[returnofjakedog]

I don’t agree with everything you say, but overall, a good breakdown.

But how can you say the “new” Baby Can You Dig Your Man is better than the ”old” Baby Can You Dig Your Man? Did we even hear it in the new version? As I remember it (25 years in my rear view mirror), the song was somewhat prominent in the original. I think it was only as distant background noise in this version.

I also completely agree that that this was not “woke-ified”. Making Larry black had no bearing on the story at all, just like him being white in the original had no bearing at all. I had absolutely zero issue with the casting. Both actors are essentially nobodies, so neither brought baggage into the role.

The new take on Lloyd made no sense. In the original, he was an older mob lieutenant who was a bad guy in regular society. But you could see as he slowly realized that Flagg was truly BAD. There was none of that self awareness in this version. He was just a drug-addled millennial who got into a bad situation and essentially sold his soul to the devil. His “face turn” came out of nowhere. He wasn’t struggling with what Flagg was doing before his turn. He was just a sniveling coward. In the original, you saw that he actually struggled with what was happening. I think some of that can be blamed on the director, but the acting also had a lot to do with it, I think. Ferrar was a very good actor (RIP).

Nadine did have a bigger role in the this version, and her story is probably better here. Like I mentioned earlier, though, I blame some of my dislike of the character in the original to my dislike of San Giacomo. She always kinda bothered me as an actress. But I do think that her death scene was better than Heard’s. The trope camera shot of her falling backward off the balcony was a nice shot. “MY LIFE FOR YOU......”

The new Nick was worthless. Again, I am not sure they can portray his importance to the story in a tv show. It was all imagery and experience, and how others reacted to his presence rather than what you could actually see him do. That’s why I think getting a BIG name to play him in the original was a smart play. It amplified how important the character is supposed to be. Casting a complete no name in the role leaves the viewer not familiar with the story thinking he was just an extra on steroids. And reducing Tom’s role adds to the uselessness of Nick.

True. The Nick and Tom storyline should have had more emphasis. Of course the entire trip to Colorado and the settling in when they got there needed more coverage in this version. Getting a big name to play Nick in the original would have been ok but Rob Lowe with his perfect haircut, perfect smile, perfect dimples, etc just wasn't right. I couldn't at all buy into him as an outcast. Again, just my opinion.

As far as the songs go, you tell me!

 

[chappee11]

True. The Nick and Tom storyline should have had more emphasis. Of course the entire trip to Colorado and the settling in when they got there needed more coverage in this version. Getting a big name to play Nick in the original would have been ok but Rob Lowe with his perfect haircut, perfect smile, perfect dimples, etc just wasn't right. I couldn't at all buy into him as an outcast. Again, just my opinion.

As far as the songs go, you tell me!

I prefer Larry singing “Eve of Destruction”. This was probably one of my favorite scenes in the whole original movie:

 

[calsnowskier]

True. The Nick and Tom storyline should have had more emphasis. Of course the entire trip to Colorado and the settling in when they got there needed more coverage in this version. Getting a big name to play Nick in the original would have been ok but Rob Lowe with his perfect haircut, perfect smile, perfect dimples, etc just wasn't right. I couldn't at all buy into him as an outcast. Again, just my opinion.

As far as the songs go, you tell me!

The new version wasn’t actually in the show, though.

 

[returnofjakedog]

The new version wasn’t actually in the show, though.

They played bits of it at least 3 or 4 times that I noticed. A couple times early in the pandemic, once in Colorado with an acoustic, and once in the background of the Vegas orgy.

 

[returnofjakedog]

It was generally in the background, so it was easy to miss. They didn't emphasis it very much, unlike the "original".
But that doesn't excuse that Miami Vice reject attempt. Even at the time that was out of date! Lol!

 

[calsnowskier]

They played bits of it at least 3 or 4 times that I noticed. A couple times early in the pandemic, once in Colorado with an acoustic, and once in the background of the Vegas orgy.

That’s kinda my point, though. It was just quiet background noise in the new version, where in the original, they actually focused on it AT LEAST once.

Minor point, I know. And at least they kept the name of the song consistent through the book and both versions of the show. Props for that. The name is very dated now (King wrote the book in the 70s).

 

[Comeds]

I was excited about this and read the book again a few months ago to refresh my memory. I will get a preview of CBS All Access and binge it soon.

From what I hear both from here and review wise is that watching it for free may be the way to go. The first was passable, good first half / bad second half but overall was a disappointment. This one sounds like a mess.

Before it came out I read a few places that the first miniseries felt rushed and they could pace this version better. From what I read it is as rushed or more. So why not make longer episodes or more episodes and do it right, or more right. I wonder if the network heard some of the early casting and or script and got cold feet.