Belt = Ishikawa?

[msgkings322]

Discuss...

 

[BeerMe]

I never saw Belt in the minors so my thoughts on him are for his performance in the bigs. It's clear by his minor league numbers that he has some serious ability. I don't know if flip flopping him between the minors and bigs has affected him. One thing I've noticed about him is his inside out swing on pitches middle in. He has been popping them up to the left side of the field, I'd like to see him pull those balls. Also, his approach with two strikes bothers me. He takes way too many called third strikes.

I just wanna say this is what I've seen from him so far. I still think he's gonna be a good hitter, he just has some things to work on.

 

[msgkings322]

I never saw Belt in the minors so my thoughts on him are for his performance in the bigs. It's clear by his minor league numbers that he has some serious ability. I don't know if flip flopping him between the minors and bigs has affected him. One thing I've noticed about him is his inside out swing on pitches middle in. He has been popping them up to the left side of the field, I'd like to see him pull those balls. Also, his approach with two strikes bothers me. He takes way too many called third strikes.

I just wanna say this is what I've seen from him so far. I still think he's gonna be a good hitter, he just has some things to work on.

Good take, thanks, what I'm looking for.

But as a comparison, wasn't Travis thought to be a good hitter too? Lanky lefty 1B...there's a lot of overlap it seems to me.

 

[mistgl]

Good take, thanks, what I'm looking for.

But as a comparison, wasn't Travis thought to be a good hitter too? Lanky lefty 1B...there's a lot of overlap it seems to me.

Ishikawa was never considered to be a real prospect, though. Belt has the tools to be a perennial all-star. He just isn't having a good rookie year, and that's pretty par for the course.

I know that after Posey and Panda that we expect gold from our rookies, but not everyone can hit the ground running. Look at how many people are actually considered for rookie of the year. Like 5 or 6, our of the 40 or so rookies who debut every year.

Point being, it's way to early to label Belt a bust. Especially considering how he has been dicked around this whole year.

 

[msgkings322]

Ishikawa was never considered to be a real prospect, though. Belt has the tools to be a perennial all-star. He just isn't having a good rookie year, and that's pretty par for the course.

I know that after Posey and Panda that we expect gold from our rookies, but not everyone can hit the ground running. Look at how many people are actually considered for rookie of the year. Like 5 or 6, our of the 40 or so rookies who debut every year.

Point being, it's way to early to label Belt a bust. Especially considering how he has been dicked around this whole year.

I wasn't implying Belt is a bust (yet), but you touched on another similarity, didn't Travis kind of get the same yanking around treatment? And he was supposed to be a good hitter too, right? And the physical types do overlap some (long, lefty 1Bs).

Just occurred to me is all.

 

[ColinCoby]

It appears the Giants are very high on Belt; I'm not sure, despite Cazic's harrassing phone calls, if they ever considered Ishi much of a prospect/long-term solution.

Belt and Ishi both are both patient hitters, but Belt appears to me to have a much quicker bat. Of course, if Belt never learns to hit the breaking pitch, he will go down the same road as Ishi/J.R. Phillips etc.

BTW: Boch called Belt out in his press conference. Something along the lines of: "We have to get Torres over to third. We score another run, take the pressure off Vogelsong, and perhaps we get a different result today." I was surprised by that. He was right of course, but not sure if Belt needs any more pressure than he is already putting on himself.

 

[msgkings322]

It appears the Giants are very high on Belt; I'm not sure, despite Cazic's harrassing phone calls, if they ever considered Ishi much of a prospect/long-term solution.

Belt and Ishi both are both patient hitters, but Belt appears to me to have a much quicker bat. Of course, if Belt never learns to hit the breaking pitch, he will go down the same road as Ishi/J.R. Phillips etc.

BTW: Boch called Belt out in his press conference. Something along the lines of: "We have to get Torres over to third. We score another run, take the pressure off Vogelsong, and perhaps we get a different result today." I was surprised by that. He was right of course, but not sure if Belt needs any more pressure than he is already putting on himself.

Well, at this point even Bochy knows the season is over, so he can start riding the kids a little to make them better.

 

[mistgl]

I wasn't implying Belt is a bust (yet), but you touched on another similarity, didn't Travis kind of get the same yanking around treatment? And he was supposed to be a good hitter too, right? And the physical types do overlap some (long, lefty 1Bs).

Just occurred to me is all.

Yes, they both bat left, play 1B, and have a similar build, and that's where the similarities end. I see how you're coming by the similarities, but to say Belt = Ishi is a complete slap to Belts face.

He's struggled at the ML level, but his intangibles are infinitely better. He wasn't made a top 25 prospect because they liked his teeth. If you don't believe me, then ask Law on his next chat. He will give you an earful on how Belts struggles are a result of the Giants piss poor player management, and that he should have been the starting 1B months ago.

Look at Freeman, that dude couldn't buy a hit for 2 months, and now he's a world beater. Same goes with Hosmer.

Point being, Belt > Ishi, and it's not even close.

 

[OzzieGiant]

If you don't believe me, then ask Law on his next chat. He will give you an earful on how Belts struggles are a result of the Giants piss poor player management, and that he should have been the starting 1B months ago.

This is pretty much sums up my thoughts on this - Belt HAS shown plenty but I don't believe he has been given the chance to settle. He is currently faced with playing an unfamiliar position, and knowing unless he hits 3/4 and RBI ever second start he is unlikely to play the next game.

To me he must be sat down and told he will be at 1B for the next 2 weeks no matter what and will appraised after that and given a chance to play his game.

Also this lefty righty stuff is a luxury this team can afford and is doing Belt no favours.

 

[SF11704]

I don't think MSG's intention was to say that Belt and Ishi had similar minor leauge stats. Belt was considerably better but I think that at the MLB level they have both gotten the same treatment. Very limited playing time. It's almost impossible for a rookie to settle in without adequate playing time. Belt should have been treated like Freeman, but where would they put him? They were not going to bench Huff to let him play. They were not going to bench Ross or Schieroltz either. I also feel that winning the WS last year also made them stay with this decision far too long. I don't believe we will see our 'kids' play until we are mathamatically eliminated. Crawford was also caught in this as well. We were the defending champs. Bochy was/is not going to start our kids on a regular basis until we are eliminated. Sucks, but that's what I think will happen

 

[mistgl]

We were the defending champs. Bochy was/is not going to start our kids on a regular basis until we are eliminated. Sucks, but that's what I think will happen

As far as i'm concerned, we deserve to lose. They have stubbornly marched Huffs' dreadful ass out there time and time again, hoping against all hope that every start is "the game". He's been worth negative WAR, and no pitch this year has registered as possessive in runs for him. Translation, he has been the second worst 1B in all of baseball.

 

[Epic Voidfield]

As far as i'm concerned, we deserve to lose. They have stubbornly marched Huffs' dreadful ass out there time and time again, hoping against all hope that every start is "the game". He's been worth negative WAR, and no pitch this year has registered as possessive in runs for him. Translation, he has been the second worst 1B in all of baseball.

I think that's going a little too far; almost Nolan-Esque, end-of-the-season finale pantshattings. The Giants don't deserve to lose, even if the odds of winning now seem to be a Mt. Everest of mathematical possibilities. I never understood what fans get out of their team losing as if it proves a point other than loathing for someone's failures. I don't get it.

I do agree that despite the Torres' and the two statues at SS et all, Aubrey Huff just makes me see red every time they trot his ass out there. Everyone's got that player they hate this season: Filo with O'Crap, me with Aubrey Stuffed (cause he's filled with dead weight shit).

To be on topic, Belt = Ishikawa in terms of roster management. Belt != Ishikawa in raw talent. I also don't think it was all bad management either; the team was scrapping for hitter. However, I do think Sabes and co. could have been a little more proactive with Belt and re-assign him to learn the outfield position much earlier if Bochy would've been realistic in acknowledging, that, despite slumping, he'd trot out Aubrey Stuffed anyway. I hope that gets rectified by giving Belt the nod to be a starter next season.

 

[Robotech]

I like Belt. He's got some great tools. Hits the ball hard. Sees a lot of pitches. I think he's got a lot more power and knows the strike zone better than Ishikawa.

 

[jingo]

I would like to see Belt at first unless you have a better option (Huff is not a better option at first). Having Belt "learn" a new position in the majors and learn how to make adjustments as a hitter all while being a spot starter on a contending team appears to be too difficult for him (as would be for most, I think).

As to the Ishikawa and Belt comparison, were both players considered the same type of hitter (power or contact or pull or ??)? Would Bowker or Schierholz be a better comparison?

 

[SF11704]

To me Belt is pure potential at the moment. For me he hasn't yet been given the chance to prove himself. His minor league record is outstanding but he needs to be give the change at this level. I personally feel he could develop into a Jay Bruce class of player if given the opportunity. Crawford on the other hand, I'm just not sure of. I don't see in him the same potential that I see in Belt

 

[gp956]

To me Belt is pure potential at the moment. For me he hasn't yet been given the chance to prove himself. His minor league record is outstanding but he needs to be give the change at this level. I personally feel he could develop into a Jay Bruce class of player if given the opportunity. Crawford on the other hand, I'm just not sure of. I don't see in him the same potential that I see in Belt

The ball doesn't jump off Crawford's bat like it does Belt's, but did you see him snare the one hop line drive off of Denorfia's bat yesterday? Very sweet.

 

[SF11704]

The ball doesn't jump off Crawford's bat like it does Belt's, but did you see him snare the one hop line drive off of Denorfia's bat yesterday? Very sweet.

I rarely get to see them play live. I follow them through gamecast, GDTs or some other on-line feature. Eventually it comes down to a boxscore for me. I always sensed that Crawford was a good defensive SS but really couldn't see it (unless it was on a video clip). Through the 'eyes' of a boxscore I see another Johnnie LeMaster at the moment.

 

[gp956]

I rarely get to see them play live. I follow them through gamecast, GDTs or some other on-line feature. Eventually it comes down to a boxscore for me. I always sensed that Crawford was a good defensive SS but really couldn't see it (unless it was on a video clip). Through the 'eyes' of a boxscore I see another Johnnie LeMaster at the moment.

Don't know if you noticed it, but I linked to the video clip of Crawford's play in my post - click on "see".

 

[SF11704]

Don't know if you noticed it, but I linked to the video clip of Crawford's play in my post - click on "see".

yeah, I did - thanks

He can definitely field the position. Makes the statue twins look like - well statues. Just would like to see his bat come around a little. Just give him SS for the rest of the year and let him relax.

 

[tzill]

To me Belt is pure potential at the moment. For me he hasn't yet been given the chance to prove himself. His minor league record is outstanding but he needs to be give the change at this level. I personally feel he could develop into a Jay Bruce class of player if given the opportunity. Crawford on the other hand, I'm just not sure of. I don't see in him the same potential that I see in Belt

But.....offspeed pitches are his problem??