YES!!!!!!

[WiggyRuss]

Once he was a full time starter, yes.

Kid showed a ton of promise.

Do I think he's gonna take a CJ McCollum type leap?

No.

But, he will average 15 plus.

Brook will be their leading scorer and Randle /Ingram will fluctuate as the #2.

KCP will be in the mix too.

In your other post about Leaf, I agree he won't be huge year 1.

N t, I think he can be a Chandler Parsons pre-knee injury in a Season of two.

"showed a ton of promise"

Mecca- objectively- if you are the #2 pick and play the most minutes out of any rookie in the entire league--- wouldn't it shock you not to see that guy in the top 10 of ROY voting?

if u were to re-draft that draft right now--- Ingram does not go #2 that is for certain. Id rather have Jaylen Brown and Jamal Murray at the least- prob. Hield as well.



Ingram or Saric?

id take Saric.

 

[Mecca]

"showed a ton of promise"

Mecca- objectively- if you are the #2 pick and play the most minutes out of any rookie in the entire league--- wouldn't it shock you not to see that guy in the top 10 of ROY voting?

if u were to re-draft that draft right now--- Ingram does not go #2 that is for certain. Id rather have Jaylen Brown and Jamal Murray at the least- prob. Hield as well.


Ingram or Saric?

id take Saric.

Dude, upside.

If we are comparing where they are now, some not all that you named have played better.

Who projects to be better?

I like Saric alot.

But, I would not take him over Ingram.

Lmao @ Heild.

Come on, you're better than that.

Ingram and Brown is interesting....

Ingram is a better facilitator.

Brown can defend and will be aggressive on offense.

Murray might end up being Curry lite, sans the handles.

So, your argument for both those guys has merit.

 

[Heatles84]

Dude, upside.

If we are comparing where they are now, some not all that you named have played better.

Who projects to be better?

I like Saric alot.

But, I would not take him over Ingram.

Lmao @ Heild.

Come on, you're better than that.

Ingram and Brown is interesting....

Ingram is a better facilitator.

Brown can defend and will be aggressive on offense.

Murray might end up being Curry lite, sans the handles.

So, your argument for both those guys has merit.

It's the Lakers factor. If Ingram was playing for a team other than the Lakers/Heat, Wiggy would own it up to Ingram needing to build up his body and continue to adjust to the NBA. Ingram and Kawhi Leonard's stats in their respective rookie years are vastly similar; although Kawhi was more efficient from the field; but you could attribute that to the offense the Spurs run along with playing with the Spurs Big 3 making it easier for him to operate offensively.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Dude, upside.

If we are comparing where they are now, some not all that you named have played better.

Who projects to be better?

I like Saric alot.

But, I would not take him over Ingram.

Lmao @ Heild.

Come on, you're better than that.

Ingram and Brown is interesting....

Ingram is a better facilitator.

Brown can defend and will be aggressive on offense.

Murray might end up being Curry lite, sans the handles.

So, your argument for both those guys has merit.

ohhforsure ---

as i said in i think my firstpost ---- Ingram's value is still definitelybased on his potential and upside- and not anything we really saw last year.

His value is still high- but its not high because he looked like Dario Saric or Joel Embiid looked at times last year--- its based on total projection.

 

[WiggyRuss]

It's the Lakers factor. If Ingram was playing for a team other than the Lakers/Heat, Wiggy would own it up to Ingram needing to build up his body and continue to adjust to the NBA. Ingram and Kawhi Leonard's stats in their respective rookie years are vastly similar; although Kawhi was more efficient from the field; but you could attribute that to the offense the Spurs run along with playing with the Spurs Big 3 making it easier for him to operate offensively.

lol

dude- Kawhi Lenoard shot almost 50% form the field...38% from 3, and played solid defense, had a positive assist to turnover ration of 1.1 to 0.7, shot 77% from the FT line

Ingram shot 40.2% from the field, 29.4 % from 3---6 62% from the FT line....2.1 apg, to 1.5 to per game

Ingram averaged 5 more minutes per game--- and put up 9.4, 4.0, 2.1 in 29 mpg......leonard was a 7.9, 5.1, 1.1 in 24 mpg

I mean cmon now.



Ingram still has great value----n o doubt about- but its value based on projection- not anything he has done-- if its based on what he actually did last year his value would be substantially down.

I cant remember a rookie that played that much, that was taken that high- who no one considered one of the best rookies in the league last year.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Dude, upside.

If we are comparing where they are now, some not all that you named have played better.

Who projects to be better?

I like Saric alot.

But, I would not take him over Ingram.

Lmao @ Heild.

Come on, you're better than that.

Ingram and Brown is interesting....

Ingram is a better facilitator.

Brown can defend and will be aggressive on offense.

Murray might end up being Curry lite, sans the handles.

So, your argument for both those guys has merit.

i totally a gree with you mecca

"upside"--- he has a lot of potential----

but that "upside" isnt based on anything from last year--- its based on what he is projected to be. not performance


with that in mind---- id still rather have Ingram than Brogdon.

 

[Heatles84]

lol

dude- Kawhi Lenoard shot almost 50% form the field...38% from 3, and played solid defense, had a positive assist to turnover ration of 1.1 to 0.7, shot 77% from the FT line

Ingram shot 40.2% from the field, 29.4 % from 3---6 62% from the FT line....2.1 apg, to 1.5 to per game

Ingram averaged 5 more minutes per game--- and put up 9.4, 4.0, 2.1 in 29 mpg......leonard was a 7.9, 5.1, 1.1 in 24 mpg

I mean cmon now.



Ingram still has great value----n o doubt about- but its value based on projection- not anything he has done-- if its based on what he actually did last year his value would be substantially down.

I cant remember a rookie that played that much, that was taken that high- who no one considered one of the best rookies in the league last year.

The stats are similar, I did say that Kawhi was by far the more efficient player which could be attributed to the talent he had around him as well as a pure PG setting him up in Tony Parker. Defenders like Kawhi don't come around often.

But I mentioned this earlier......reading is fundamental.

 

[trojanfan12]

I get a kick out of that almost two months after the fact, we still have fans of other teams rambling about the Pacers' return value from the trade. But to just about every Pacers fan I've conversed with on RealGM, it's water under the bridge and a dead issue at this point. Most of them are quite content to enter the season with the players we currently have.

Perhaps the reason people are still talking about the Pacers return value on the trade is because the Pacers waited until 4 months after the Kimmel interview to file the required paperwork for tampering charges. No one was really talking about the trade anymore until the Pacers decided to file tampering charges.

The Kimmel interview was in April and the Pacers just now get around to filing the paperwork? It's not a good look for the Pacers since they stand to gain literally nothing from this. It's not like the NBA is going to make the Thunder return PG to the Pacers.

Even in the very unlikely event that the league rules that the Lakers can't sign or trade for PG (which is only likely to happen if the league can prove that the Lakers had a side deal with PG), it still does nothing to help the Pacers. They still took the worst of the offers they received and PG still isn't going to be a Pacer.

If anything, the Pacers make themselves look bad and make it so that teams are likely to be less willing to do business with them in the future.

Also, other Pacers fans may have moved on, but you clearly haven't. After all, not only did you create this thread, but you also you commented "Awesome" on the Indy Star website and got shut down by other Pacers fans who wanted to move on and didn't like the fact that the Pacers did this.

 

[WiggyRuss]

The stats are similar, I did say that Kawhi was by far the more efficient player which could be attributed to the talent he had around him as well as a pure PG setting him up in Tony Parker. Defenders like Kawhi don't come around often.

But I mentioned this earlier......reading is fundamental.

I still think Ingram is a very very good prospect--- but thats not based on anything he did last year- its based on projection--- which i still weigh much more heavily than production

I mean Brogdon was awesome last year. I would NEVER trade Ingram for Brogdon.

I am just saying it hs to be be concerning to see a #2 overall pick that got huge playing time not even considered one of the top 10rookies last year.

Murray, Brown and Saric both have the pedigree and played well last year.


Id still rather have Ingram than many guys drafted last year--- but if they redrafted today- Ingram would not go 2.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Perhaps the reason people are still talking about the Pacers return value on the trade is because the Pacers waited until 4 months after the Kimmel interview to file the required paperwork for tampering charges. No one was really talking about the trade anymore until the Pacers decided to file tampering charges.

The Kimmel interview was in April and the Pacers just now get around to filing the paperwork? It's not a good look for the Pacers since they stand to gain literally nothing from this. It's not like the NBA is going to make the Thunder return PG to the Pacers.

Even in the very unlikely event that the league rules that the Lakers can't sign or trade for PG (which is only likely to happen if the league can prove that the Lakers had a side deal with PG), it still does nothing to help the Pacers. They still took the worst of the offers they received and PG still isn't going to be a Pacer.

If anything, the Pacers make themselves look bad and make it so that teams are likely to be less willing to do business with them in the future.

Also, other Pacers fans may have moved on, but you clearly haven't. After all, not only did you create this thread, but you also you commented "Awesome" on the Indy Star website and got shut down by other Pacers fans who wanted to move on and didn't like the fact that the Pacers did this.

it would be very VERY surprising to see the league take any action against the Lakers unless their is a "smoking gun" where they have no choice but to do so----- and i cant see that happening.

It would be an over the top remedy to disallow the Lakers from pursuing George unless there is some behind the scenes contact that none of us are privy to.

Nowicantbelieve- Pritchard filed the case without at least some basis- because the league would NOT take kindly to that--- but i cantbelieve there was an egregious enough violation to warrant league intervention.

 

[trojanfan12]

It's a stretch because the NBA has to first prove that some one in the Lakers actually spoke to Paul George

Actually, if you read the definition of tampering under league rules, the "wink wink" comment that Magic made during the Kimmel interview meets the criteria for a tampering charge.

Not the kind of tampering that would cause the Lakers to be hit with the loss of draft picks, a suspension and/or not being allowed to sign or trade for PG. But enough for the Lakers to be fined.

A great example was presented on the Dan Patrick Show this morning. Awhile back (pre-KD joining them), Steve Kerr was interviewed on the Dan Patrick Show. DP asked him about the possibility of Lebron joining the Warriors. Kerr tried to avoid saying anything. I don't remember the exact quote, but it was something along the lines of "Of course we'd love to have Lebron, but he's not signing for a mid-level." The NBA fined him $25,000 for that remark.

 

[trojanfan12]

What teams collude to build super teams? Almost all the time it is players contacting players to build super teams. It's not another owner/coach/gm contacting a player while he is still under contract with another team. Not saying Magic did this but point is, this is completely different than players contacting each other.

Yeah, the players can do and say what they want. I mean, does anyone think that James Harden wasn't blowing up CP3's phone to get him to go to Houston? Steph Curry, etc. were openly recruiting KD.

Tampering and collusion only come into play when it's executives or coaches that are involved.

 

[trojanfan12]

And as i said--- I def would pick the Lakers roster over the Pacers---- but the Pacers are better equipped to win now and are in the better ocnference.

Yeah, when I look at the 2 rosters. They are essentially even. The Lakers are more talented, but the Pacers are more experienced. If both played in the same conference, they would likely finish with very similar records. Being in the East gives the Pacers the edge on finishing with a better record this year.

They look to have opposite issues too. The Pacers will struggle to score. The Lakers will struggle to stop anyone from scoring.

 

[trojanfan12]

but giving up a 2nd overall pick 2 years into his career in order to bail yourself out of a terrible contract is really really bad business.

Not really. Once the Lakers settled on Lonzo, Russell wasn't long for the team anyway. More has come out re: his work ethic, not getting along with his teammates, etc. It was best for both him and the team that he move on.

For him, hopefully he learns from this and becomes the player that I think he can be. For the Lakers, they got a good veteran center who is a giant upgrade over Mozgov, can help develop Zubac and they got rid of Mozgov's contract as an added bonus.

 

[bksballer89]

Yeah, the players can do and say what they want. I mean, does anyone think that James Harden wasn't blowing up CP3's phone to get him to go to Houston? Steph Curry, etc. were openly recruiting KD.

Tampering and collusion only come into play when it's executives or coaches that are involved.

I mean Draymond admitted to texting KD after they fell to the Cavs in G7 last year lol. Yea players "colluding" happens all the time

 

[trojanfan12]

Ingram showed promise during his rookie season? He played the most minutes out of any rookie---- some of the most minutes that have been played by a rookie in the last decade in the NBA- and he looked atrocious for the vast majority of the time.

Early in the season, he looked lost and timid. By the end of the season (the last 20 or so games) he looked much more comfortable and was more aggressive on the court.

So, you are correct that for the first 60 or so games, he didn't look like much, but over the last 20, he looked a lot more like the guy the Lakers thought they were getting.

He only played 1 summer league game. But in that game, he showed exactly what he needed to. He needed to come into the summer league with an "I'm better than all of these guys" attitude and play like it. Which is exactly what he did.

Now he needs to translate that to the real season.

 

[Heatles84]

I mean Draymond admitted to texting KD after they fell to the Cavs in G7 last year lol. Yea players "colluding" happens all the time

Remember when everyone got into their tit fit when their was speculation about Miami's Big 3 coming together?

 

[WiggyRuss]

Not really. Once the Lakers settled on Lonzo, Russell wasn't long for the team anyway. More has come out re: his work ethic, not getting along with his teammates, etc. It was best for both him and the team that he move on.

For him, hopefully he learns from this and becomes the player that I think he can be. For the Lakers, they got a good veteran center who is a giant upgrade over Mozgov, can help develop Zubac and they got rid of Mozgov's contract as an added bonus.

I agree with the move-- it had to be made because of the horrible Mozgov contract---- not only that--- but the fact that all the cpa room in the NBA is quickly shrinking such that expiring contracts will be worth more again soon.

imagine if you had to dump a contract next year--- cant do it to brooklyn now that they have mozgov and crabbe--- Philly wont be a dumping ground anymore. Other teams have used up tons of cap space.

the Lakers had to make that move with Russell---- my point was--- if you are trading a #2 overall pick 2 years after you took him just to get off a bad contract- something seriously fucked up happened and you just wasted a pretty big time asset just to make up for an egregious mistake.

 

[bksballer89]

Remember when everyone got into their tit fit when their was speculation about Miami's Big 3 coming together?

Yep that was hilarious.

James Harden basically openly admitted he colluded to get CP3 to Houston. Said he spoke with CP3 and knew he wasn't happy. What do you think the next thing he said? Get your ass to Houston

 

[Heatles84]

I agree with the move-- it had to be made because of the horrible Mozgov contract---- not only that--- but the fact that all the cpa room in the NBA is quickly shrinking such that expiring contracts will be worth more again soon.

imagine if you had to dump a contract next year--- cant do it to brooklyn now that they have mozgov and crabbe--- Philly wont be a dumping ground anymore. Other teams have used up tons of cap space.

the Lakers had to make that move with Russell---- my point was--- if you are trading a #2 overall pick 2 years after you took him just to get off a bad contract- something seriously fucked up happened and you just wasted a pretty big time asset just to make up for an egregious mistake.

I agree to an extent. I think the Nick Young situation made it easier to justify moving Russell to the Nets to afford some cap relief to set yourself (the Lakers) up for a prime free agency in 2018. It's unfortunate, because I think Russell would make for a really good 2-guard in the league and would've been a great spark off the bench should the Lakers somehow land George and Lebron.