yeast

[thecrow124]

I got my first extract kit and it came with a packet of dry yeast. I have some questions abouthow to proceed. I don't have a stirplate so a starter is not an option. So should I pitch the yeast dry, or reactivate it? I also don't have any yeast nutrient so is that an abs flute necessity?


I apologize if these are dumb questions, I just don't want to jack up my first solo batch.

 

[757Hokie83]

http://www.sportshoopla.com/forums/beer-forum/63694-any-brewers-ever-used-dry-yeast.html

see post #10. I dont have a stir plate or anything either, it turned out just fine

 

[Sleepy T]

My brother seems to think there isn't a difference in dry vs. liquid (with regards to flavor) but I totally disagree. Although more expensive and tougher to deal with, I prefer the liquid yeast (my LHBS carries White Labs products). With that being said, sparko typically just sprinkles the S-04/S-05 atop his sweet wort..he has never had a problem getting it to fully ferment.

In regards to a starter, I have just read and heard (from Warty) that building a starter (even a small one) for every batch is recommended. That there aren't enough yeast cells (even in a very fresh vial) to ferment 5 gallons of low/medium gravity wort like it should be. That doesn't mean that it will not get the wort close to the final gravity, just that it will not be as "clean" as it could be with a 1/2 liter to 1 liter starter.

Stir plates I have seen are priced online anywhere between $75-$125. I found a DIY section on the homewbrew site I frequent that has a nice stirplate build. I picked up the parts yesterday from Radio Shack for just over $20. I have a 4-in computer fan, some magnets, and a 6-12VDC power supply already available. Will let you guise know how it turns out. Plan on putting it together during my Christmas vacation.

 

[757Hokie83]

My brother seems to think there isn't a difference in dry vs. liquid (with regards to flavor) but I totally disagree. Although more expensive and tougher to deal with, I prefer the liquid yeast (my LHBS carries White Labs products). With that being said, sparko typically just sprinkles the S-04/S-05 atop his sweet wort..he has never had a problem getting it to fully ferment.

In regards to a starter, I have just read and heard (from Warty) that building a starter (even a small one) for every batch is recommended. That there aren't enough yeast cells (even in a very fresh vial) to ferment 5 gallons of low/medium gravity wort like it should be. That doesn't mean that it will not get the wort close to the final gravity, just that it will not be as "clean" as it could be with a 1/2 liter to 1 liter starter.

Stir plates I have seen are priced online anywhere between $75-$125. I found a DIY section on the homewbrew site I frequent that has a nice stirplate build. I picked up the parts yesterday from Radio Shack for just over $20. I have a 4-in computer fan, some magnets, and a 6-12VDC power supply already available. Will let you guise know how it turns out. Plan on putting it together during my Christmas vacation.

got a link for that?

 

[Sleepy T]

got a link for that?

This is the one I am building....I went with a 8"x6"X3" enclosure. A little bit bigger (about a dollar more) than this guy used.

My Stirplate... Cheap and Easy Build... - Home Brew Forums

There are others on there as well if you want to fish around.

 

[wartyOne]

I've used both, numerous times. There are many more varieties in liquid yeast, and produce different characteristics in your beers.

However, if you're wanting a clean ale yeast (Wyeast 1056), than there is virtually no difference between dry and liquid.

ABSOLUTELY rehydrate. Do this ten minutes before you intend to pitch, and use 90 degree water (if you go over 100, you're going to damage your yeast).

The main difference between the two is that dry yeast contains billions more cells per packet, but not all of those cells are viable. With dry yeast, a starter isn't really necessary, because your cell count is considerably bigger.

If you're shooting for something more exotic, like a Bavarian Hefeweizen, you're going to want to go with a liquid yeast. The dry stuff is awesome for beers like American IPA, Stout, American Pale, British Pale, Irish Red. It's not so good for lagers, and won't create a Belgian.

 

[Sleepy T]

Warty/757 (or anyone for that matter), What experiences do you have with WLP005 (British Ale) yeast?? I don't have access locally for the Wyeast Ringwood Ale yeast and they say the 005 is the best White Labs substitution. Using it for a Dogfishhead 60minute IPA type clone brew. Also, what is a good temperature to ferment this yeast at for an American East Coast IPA?? Iwas thinking the low end of the range (65-66F)..but I don't know much and still have much to learn about the chemistry and behavior of yeast.

WLP005 British Ale Yeast
This yeast is a little more attenuative than WLP002. Like most English strains, this yeast produces malty beers. Excellent for all English style ales including bitter, pale ale, porter, and brown ale.
Attenuation: 67-74%
Flocculation: High
Optimum fermentation temperature: 65-70°F
Alcohol Tolerance: Medium

 

[wartyOne]

Warty/757 (or anyone for that matter), What experiences do you have with WLP005 (British Ale) yeast?? I don't have access locally for the Wyeast Ringwood Ale yeast and they say the 005 is the best White Labs substitution. Using it for a Dogfishhead 60minute IPA type clone brew. Also, what is a good temperature to ferment this yeast at for an American East Coast IPA?? Iwas thinking the low end of the range (65-66F)..but I don't know much and still have much to learn about the chemistry and behavior of yeast.

None with WLP005, but a TON with Wyeast 1098/99 (virtually the same yeast strain). I don't like it. It's estery, and not very attenuative (if it's a high flocculator, it's a low attenuator). These are personal preferences. For ales, and especially American IPA's, I have always preferred Wyeast 1056 (not sure of the WL's clone; I'll look it up for you).

You're going to impart some apple/pear esters, and I think they clash with what you're trying to achieve, but again, that's just my preference. American East Coast IPA's are not British IPA's, though they do share some commonalities. But yeast typically isn't one of them.

Now, for the guts of your question. Shoot for 64 degrees. A temp-controlled fridge isn't as effective as a glycol-jacketed fermenter. That's not a problem, you just need to go lower than higher. With the lower end of the spectrum, it's gonna be a bit more sluggish than you're typically used to (especially if this is your first cold fermentation). I'd say check it at 11/12 days and if your gravity is the same, bump the temp up to 72 for two days. This is your diacetyl rest. At the end of this period you should be ready to bottle/keg.

Don't know if I've told you this before, but don't bother going from a primary to secondary fermenter. That's nonsense that homebrewers would do well to eliminate. All you're doing is boosting your oxygen uptake. I don't know of a brewery that does this. Oxygen in the beginning of a fermentation is critical. Oxygen after fermentation is detrimental.

Also, I've been doing a bit of research into homebrewing equipment. If you don't have a conical fermenter, check into these: Speidel Plastic Fermenter - 60L (15.9 gal) | MoreBeer. With these, you can eliminate a lot of oxygen uptake, and since the spigot is above the trub level, you will get effectively bright beer, especially if you use biofine, coming out of the spigot.

Here's how you eliminate oxygen from your transfer (this only applies to kegs). First, get a clean keg. Seal it. Set your CO2 regulator to 5 PSI (because you don't need anything more than that). Run CO2 into your sealed keg through the liquid line (this is important; NOT THE GAS LINE). Purge it through the blowoff valve (or the gas poppet if you don't have a blowoff valve). Do this three times. This will remove all O2 from the keg, and leave the keg in a CO2 environment. You'll have to blowdown the keg in order to open it, but the O2 level will still be very low even with the next steps.

Hook a hose to your fermenter spigot, and run beer through the unregulated line. The beer will chase the air out (don't start collecting until the line is full of beer). Stop it with your hand (iodophor is awesome in this use; spray your hands down before handling any beer). Start feeding hose into keg, and get it to the bottom of the keg as quickly as possible. Splashing is bad. You want the end of the hose submerged under beer as quickly as is practical.

To a brewery, this isn't the ideal. To a homebrewer, this will significantly improve the quality of your beer.

 

[wartyOne]

Whoops. Make sure you stop your transfer before air starts flowing into your keg. Defeats the point of everything I just said if you bleed new air into the keg.

Though, this is a bit of a debate. The layer above the beer in a fermenter is technically a CO2 environment, but I'd err on the side of caution and just dump that final pint out.

 

[Sleepy T]

None with WLP005, but a TON with Wyeast 1098/99 (virtually the same yeast strain). I don't like it. It's estery, and not very attenuative (if it's a high flocculator, it's a low attenuator). These are personal preferences. For ales, and especially American IPA's, I have always preferred Wyeast 1056 (not sure of the WL's clone; I'll look it up for you).
.

Yeah, I've used the White Labs equivalent of 1056---WLP001 (California Ale) several times and it is a great yeast for IPA and PAs. Very clean and dry..perfect for a West Coast Style PA or IPA. Can't wait to use it in a controlled environment. Another yeast that I was looking at that is said to be very close to the yeast DFH uses in their 90 minute IPA is this one below....

WLP007 Dry English Ale Yeast
Clean, highly flocculent, and highly attenuative yeast. This yeast is similar to WLP002 in flavor profile, but is 10% more attenuative. This eliminates the residual sweetness, and makes the yeast well suited for high gravity ales. It is also reaches terminal gravity quickly. 80% attenuation will be reached even with 10% ABV beers.
Attenuation: 70-80%
Flocculation: Medium to High
Optimum fermentation temperature: 65-70°F
Alcohol Tolerance: Medium-High

Do you think this one would be better than the 005 for something in the %6-6.5 ABV range??
Have you ever had a DFH 60 minute IPA Warty (I know you are WC)??? NOt sure if they distribute in NM. It is a slightly malty version of an IPA. A little bit more body IMO and the hoppiness isn't as sharp like some of the NW IPA's. Great beer. A little more expensive than most to boot .

While my goto yeast for these style beers will definitely be WLP001..Just looking to try something a little bit different. Decisions. Decisions.

And oh yeah. Those 15 gallon fermneters are just what I need. I knew they made wine buckets (look like trash cans IMO) but hadn't seen those yet. I have also seen the 15 gallon glass demi-johns, which I was also considering soon.

I think the plastic would be lighter and much much better. Definitely the route I think I will take. Thanks warty!

 

[thecrow124]

I am not sure why the DFH 60 minute gets so much love. I thought it was rather horrible the times I tried it. I tend to find IPA's rather enjoyable for the most part, but I have yet to find a DFH beer that is any good at all. I do recognize that many people enjoy them, but like Stout's, they are just something I don't think I will ever have the palate for.

 

[Sleepy T]

I just think that DFH60/90 is a little bit "different" than most IPA's. It is more malty than most IPAs and has an awesome aroma IMHO (I have been getting an onion/garlic/grassy aroma lately). That, and it doesn't use the hops that it seems almost EVERY brewery uses in its American IPAs (Chinook, Cascade, Centennial, Columbus, etc.). Don't get me wrong, I love those hops, and love those beers. Just nice to drink something that doesn't taste almost the same as every other IPA.

 

[thecrow124]

VT if you can get anything made by Three Floyd's give them a try, different and good.

 

[Sleepy T]

Heard of them, may have to go on the hunt at the specialty store all the way across town.

Dread naught IIPA and Alpha King PA are the ones I have heard of.

 

[thecrow124]

Alpha Klaus and Zombie Dust are worth trying to find as well.

 

[Sleepy T]

Yeah. Heard of Zombie Dust as well.

 

[wartyOne]

Yeah, I've used the White Labs equivalent of 1056---WLP001 (California Ale) several times and it is a great yeast for IPA and PAs. Very clean and dry..perfect for a West Coast Style PA or IPA. Can't wait to use it in a controlled environment. Another yeast that I was looking at that is said to be very close to the yeast DFH uses in their 90 minute IPA is this one below....



Do you think this one would be better than the 005 for something in the %6-6.5 ABV range??
Have you ever had a DFH 60 minute IPA Warty (I know you are WC)??? NOt sure if they distribute in NM. It is a slightly malty version of an IPA. A little bit more body IMO and the hoppiness isn't as sharp like some of the NW IPA's. Great beer. A little more expensive than most to boot .

While my goto yeast for these style beers will definitely be WLP001..Just looking to try something a little bit different. Decisions. Decisions.

And oh yeah. Those 15 gallon fermneters are just what I need. I knew they made wine buckets (look like trash cans IMO) but hadn't seen those yet. I have also seen the 15 gallon glass demi-johns, which I was also considering soon.

I think the plastic would be lighter and much much better. Definitely the route I think I will take. Thanks warty!

I actually just had one of those last night. It's good for a double. I'm in the land of ridiculous IPA's. Huge alcohol, huge IBU's, huge everything. It was refreshing to taste something that wasn't so hop forward.

Use a bit of gypsum in your mash, and your boil to get better isomerization out of your hops. One ounce, hydrated, in each should be plenty. In addition to the improved isomerization, you'll get a dryer product, which you're going to want.

Also, pay attention to your mash and sparge water's pH. If your normal water supply is slightly alkaline (ours is), you're going to want to acidify that water with 10 mls of food grade phosphoric acid. This will help buffer your water, which will protect from tannin extraction (it's more complex than that, but that's what you're doing).

 

[757Hokie83]

Don't know if I've told you this before, but don't bother going from a primary to secondary fermenter. That's nonsense that homebrewers would do well to eliminate. All you're doing is boosting your oxygen uptake. I don't know of a brewery that does this. Oxygen in the beginning of a fermentation is critical. Oxygen after fermentation is detrimental.

I recently heard this for the first time after that one batch got contaminated over the summer...pretty much heard that the only times you should really use a secondary is if you are doing a fruit beer, transfer to secondary and leave the fruit in the primary, or if you are dry hopping, to dry hop in the secondary. What do you think about that?

 

[Sleepy T]

I recently heard this for the first time after that one batch got contaminated over the summer...pretty much heard that the only times you should really use a secondary is if you are doing a fruit beer, transfer to secondary and leave the fruit in the primary, or if you are dry hopping, to dry hop in the secondary. What do you think about that?

Been reading some in my new book "The complete joy..." and he mentioned that the only real need for transferring to a secondary is if you plan to ferment longer than 14 days or so. Papazian said that after that, the yeast kinda starts breaking down and could cause some "off flavors" in your beer. At least that is the way I read it. I am sure the resident brewmaster could give a better explanation.

 

[wartyOne]

Been reading some in my new book "The complete joy..." and he mentioned that the only real need for transferring to a secondary is if you plan to ferment longer than 14 days or so. Papazian said that after that, the yeast kinda starts breaking down and could cause some "off flavors" in your beer. At least that is the way I read it. I am sure the resident brewmaster could give a better explanation.

It's technically named yeast autolysis. Basically, the yeast cells die and start exploding. Think of this as beer-zombie-apocalypse.

Your ferment should be done before this happens (and 14 days is not accurate). If you're in the same fermenter for 36 days, then this is an issue. 14 to 20 days shouldn't be a problem.