Would You...

[NWinAZ]

100% hypothetical of course, and M's would never think of doing this nor Felix would ever approve it, but what else do we have to talk about...M's actual games?

Felix to Dodgers

For

Joc Pederson
Corey Seager
Pedro Baez
Alex Guerrero
Young SP Prospect

Love Felix, but team needs more talent and more money to spend (yes they keep themselves from spending).

 

[cezero]

yeah

 

[seahawksfan234]

Not even if they ate his entire salary.

Corey Seager: Prospect
Joc Peterson: 64 major league games. He's been good so far, but I've had enough of prospects.
Paedro Baez: Relievers are a dime a dozen
Alex Guerrero: He has been good in his 35 MLB games, but that's not enough to see if he will actually be a good player.

The Mariners roster is built to win now. This trade would benefit us in the long run, but the Mariners are 9-1 when Felix pitches this year. 22-12 last year. Felix gives the Mariners an opportunity to win the game every time he pitches, I'd rather not trade that for a group of prospects, especially when our pitching depth is weak.

 

[seahawksfan234]

Such a trade could end up being massively beneficial, but it could also land us another Jesus Montero, Justin Smoak, Dustin Ackley and Nick Franklin.

 

[NWinAZ]

It could, but how many playoffs has Felix pitched in? Playing Devils Advocate of course, but we have so many holes to fill and free agency will never be our avenue to do it in.

So your avenue to winning soon would be to trade our prospects for MLB talent which takes about 2-3 top prospects to get back 1 MLB difference maker. The current path we are on hasn't worked in over a decade.

 

[seahawksfan234]

It could, but how many playoffs has Felix pitched in? Playing Devils Advocate of course, but we have so many holes to fill and free agency will never be our avenue to do it in.

So your avenue to winning soon would be to trade our prospects for MLB talent which takes about 2-3 top prospects to get back 1 MLB difference maker. The current path we are on hasn't worked in over a decade.

We have many holes to fill, but I'd rather try to fill them without creating more holes and filling said holes with question marks. I'd be willing to trade anyone but Felix and Cruz right now. Those two contribute so much to this team that it's unlikely the return we would receive would be worth what we would be giving up.

The Mariners are 15-23 when it's anyone but Felix pitching. I think that's a critical stat you really need to think about.

 

[Mariners_44]

100% hypothetical of course, and M's would never think of doing this nor Felix would ever approve it, but what else do we have to talk about...M's actual games?

Felix to Dodgers

For

Joc Pederson
Corey Seager
Pedro Baez
Alex Guerrero
Young SP Prospect

Love Felix, but team needs more talent and more money to spend (yes they keep themselves from spending).

NO, DUMB!

Let me ask you, how did trading Randy work out? How about Griff? Solid players, yes. Championships, NO! You live & die with your Hall of Famer, PERIOD! Felix stays, move on.

 

[gohusk]

Fuck that. How many players were waiting for the first opportunity to get out of here? Felix has always said he loves it here. When his contract came up he was saying sign him up for life because he loves the city. After getting better-dealed by so many super stars I'm kind of attached to the one that loves representing the city.

 

[cezero]

This would be a no-brainer yes for me, but Felix would never be willing. Neither would the Dodgers front office, though.

 

[NWinAZ]

NO, DUMB!

Let me ask you, how did trading Randy work out? How about Griff? Solid players, yes. Championships, NO! You live & die with your Hall of Famer, PERIOD! Felix stays, move on.

Actually quite well. Led to our best season in history. Championships? No. But how many championships did RJ and Griffey win us?

I remember fans making your same point about Ichiro. No one player has ever won us anything.

Not going to argue, but to say move on is just asinine. And as a reference, look up how well the the Colon to Expos trade saved the Indians. It is about playoffs because w/o playoffs there are no championships. A lesser reminder would be when we traded our Ace Langston for some young nobodies. That worked out pretty well for us as well.

 

[NWinAZ]

Fuck that. How many players were waiting for the first opportunity to get out of here? Felix has always said he loves it here. When his contract came up he was saying sign him up for life because he loves the city. After getting better-dealed by so many super stars I'm kind of attached to the one that loves representing the city.

I get your viewpoint on that. Unfortunately loving a player who loves your city really doesn't do anything for winning. But I guess if you have to watch a team lose for 33 out of 38 years, you may as well have someone on it you love to follow.

 

[cezero]

will be fun to see if anybody bumps this thread 3 years from now.

pederson and seager the younger.

that's all i'll say.

 

[NWinAZ]

We have many holes to fill, but I'd rather try to fill them without creating more holes and filling said holes with question marks. I'd be willing to trade anyone but Felix and Cruz right now. Those two contribute so much to this team that it's unlikely the return we would receive would be worth what we would be giving up.

The Mariners are 15-23 when it's anyone but Felix pitching. I think that's a critical stat you really need to think about.

What player coming to Seattle (either young or vet isn't a question mark? Cruz was a question mark if you read all the articles by writers and comments by fans over the winter.

And your 15-23 stat also fails to include one important fact, the players you get in return for him. What was the record when Randy pitched for us? I bet not as high of a winning percentage as it was in 2001 which was led by 3 players we got in that trade.

Again, I love Felix and what he brings in game but one man never carries a team. See when we lost 3 future hall of famers and not just one. We survived that and then some. And if you trade him and the return flops? Would it be any worse than what we have watched for the last decade? No because losing is losing and there is no acceptable difference of a 50 win season and a 80 win season.

 

[gohusk]

I get your viewpoint on that. Unfortunately loving a player who loves your city really doesn't do anything for winning. But I guess if you have to watch a team lose for 33 out of 38 years, you may as well have someone on it you love to follow.

I honestly don't think that Felix Hernandez and his contract is the problem. I think the real problem is that we can't pick up a prospect that can develop hit to save our lives.

 

[Banned 10x]

I honestly don't think that Felix Hernandez and his contract is the problem. I think the real problem is that we can't pick up a prospect that can develop hit to save our lives.

exactly. Felix is nowhere near the problem, you don't trade away HOFers in their prime, you build around them. Now, who's doing the building is the real problem.

Plus, the fan uproar if they traded Felix would be devastating to this team.

 

[blstoker]

What was the record when Randy pitched for us? I bet not as high of a winning percentage as it was in 2001 which was led by 3 players we got in that trade.

The Randy Johnson trade was a loss for the M's (IMO). Johnson alone had a WAR 20 points higher than the career WAR the three players he was traded for had combined as Mariners.

Also, saying that Guillen and Halama were anything but role players in that 2001 success is sugar coating their efforts. Garcia did lead the AL in ERA, but Johnson's ERA was 0.56 lower than Garcia's in '01 (not to mention that Johnson was 5-1 with an ERA of 1.52 in the playoffs or how that would have changed had he been pitching in Safeco). Although there is no way in knowing how the '01 season would have turned out had Johnson been on the team other than Gracia, Halama & Guillen, but I highly doubt it would have been a negative impact. Besides, who knows how things would have turned out with Griffey and Rodriguez had Johnson not been the first domino to drop.

The M's really don't have a great track record when trading away their best players, and we know exactly how good they are at developing prospects, so I'd say no cause I don't think that the players they are getting back will be as effective as Felix is (even though Felix only participates in 1/5 of the games).

 

[Mariners_44]

Actually quite well. Led to our best season in history. Championships? No. But how many championships did RJ and Griffey win us?

I remember fans making your same point about Ichiro. No one player has ever won us anything.

Not going to argue, but to say move on is just asinine. And as a reference, look up how well the the Colon to Expos trade saved the Indians. It is about playoffs because w/o playoffs there are no championships. A lesser reminder would be when we traded our Ace Langston for some young nobodies. That worked out pretty well for us as well.

Sorry NWinAZ, I was a tad tipsy when I responded

Though I still stand by my comments, I don't think you can ever shut the door on trading anyone; a smart GM listens to any offer. My thought process is that for every great trade like the one's you mentioned, theres 5 like the Cliff Lee deal or Bedard deal. We can't hardly live with those ones, imagine living with a Felix one of that magnitude.

 

[wazzu31]

That's kind of a tough one. A few years ago I'd be for it but its tough cause its Cano's contract that will hinder the franchise more than Felix. Its hard to say what he's even worth cause I can't think of a deal that would be the equivalent of Felix to any team

 

[NWinAZ]

I honestly don't think that Felix Hernandez and his contract is the problem. I think the real problem is that we can't pick up a prospect that can develop hit to save our lives.

I totally agree that Felix isn't the problem. He is the answer...IF management was to build around him and add payroll because you are not going to win with 9 prospects or whatever you need to upgrade this mess. No team can do that. And to say the problem is we can't develop hitters, while very much true, doesn't solve any problems. So how do you fix the problem when now is the time to win. We maybe have a 3 year window before what positives we do have start to level off.

Just looking for realistic answers on how to get this ship a sailing towards a championship run.

 

[NWinAZ]

exactly. Felix is nowhere near the problem, you don't trade away HOFers in their prime, you build around them. Now, who's doing the building is the real problem.

Plus, the fan uproar if they traded Felix would be devastating to this team.

Never said he was the problem. Jr., RJ, Ichiro, nor ARod were the problems either yet they all went away and we formed a more balanced team that won.

As for the uproar, what silences that? Winning.

And for anyone to say 'Just build around them' isn't answering the HOW when we max our spending limit out and we hire incompetent GM's that just want to keep there jobs and not make waves (or good moves)?