Worst organizations at developing starting pitchers

[Cedrique]

I posted this on the Phillies board but then I remembered there are only like 8 people there and this is a question that is bothering me now? Here goes:


Here's an interesting question? How many good starting pitchers have come through the Phillies "system" in the last 50 years? I'm skipping Nola because he was already a polished product in college who they fast tracked to the majors. So the only one I can think of is Cole Hamels. Schilling, Lee, Halladay, Carlton all came from other organizations. Brett Myers? Dick Ruthven? Larry Christenson? Pat Combs (lol) I can't even remember any good pitchers we traded away.

Ok, I'll give the Phillies Nola I guess because they didn't "ruin" him in those 18 starts in the minors. But I'm really having a hard time thinking of any more. Also, is there any team that is even worse than this at developing starters? (keep in mind I'm looking for worse, I don't care about all the teams that are better)

 

[mr.hockey4242]

Twins. Easy.

 

[mcnabb7542]

Seattle Mariners !




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[Cedrique]

Seattle Mariners !




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You could be right, it's hard to remember which guys came up through a minor league system and which ones got traded early in their careers and became good starters with another team.
But how about Felix Hernandez, Jim Abbott, Floyd Bannister maybe?

 

[mcnabb7542]

You could be right, it's hard to remember which guys came up through a minor league system and which ones got traded early in their careers and became good starters with another team.
But how about Felix Hernandez, Jim Abbott, Floyd Bannister maybe?

Only Hernandez and they ruined his arm at a young age !

Abbott was an Angel and Bannister was an Astro

 

[Cedrique]

Twins. Easy.

Johan Santana, Brad Radke...I guess Jim Kaat was more than 50 years ago. I'd have to think about it. But I've followed the Phillies for years and all I've got is Hamels, Nola, I guess Ruthven was a good No.2-3 starter and a bunch of marginal number 5 starters (speaking of which, Charles Hudson, Randy Lerch)

 

[molsaniceman]

depends on how long u want to go back last good red sox pitcher was lester

 

[Cedrique]

Only Hernandez and they ruined his arm at a young age !

Abbott was an Angel and Bannister was an Astro

Ok, they might be in the running. Mark Langston was good though

 

[molsaniceman]

Johan Santana, Brad Radke...I guess Jim Kaat was more than 50 years ago. I'd have to think about it. But I've followed the Phillies for years and all I've got is Hamels, Nola, I guess Ruthven was a good No.2-3 starter and a bunch of marginal number 5 starters (speaking of which, Charles Hudson, Randy Lerch)

if u go way back its robin roberts

 

[Cedrique]

depends on how long u want to go back last good red sox pitcher was lester

I just arbitrarily set it at 50 years so there's also Clemens. And did Eckersley come up with the Red Sox?

 

[Cedrique]

if u go way back its robin roberts

True, but that goes over the 50 year mark. Maybe I'm being hard on the Phillies because it does seem that a lot of these pitching prospects end up getting thrown into trades before they have their good seasons. But like I said, I can't even think of any good pitchers that came up through the system that they traded away. But it could be just the way the eco-system works. Teams with less money like the Expos or expansion teams (like the 60's Mets) pay more attention to developing starters because they can get more for them in trades later.

 

[mcnabb7542]

Ok, they might be in the running. Mark Langston was good though

Yeah you got that one, then again they needed to beat him for the division in 95 and they paid off big time

 

[navamind]

Red Sox have done a pretty lousy job outside of Lester and Buchholz. And even with Buchholz, I'd still say his career was pretty disappointing. Buchholz had only three seasons with 25+ starts and two of those years were mediocre. 2013 looked like the year he was finally putting it all together and then he hit the DL for pretty much the entire summer. Eduardo Rodriguez wasn't drafted by the Sox. Matt Barnes was drafted as a SP in the first round of 2011 and he only made two starts in the majors and has been a fairly mediocre reliever. Tanner Houck was also drafted as a SP and he's relieving in AAA. Groome can't stay healthy.

 

[Rod Freakin' Dangerfield]

I posted this on the Phillies board but then I remembered there are only like 8 people there and this is a question that is bothering me now? Here goes:


Here's an interesting question? How many good starting pitchers have come through the Phillies "system" in the last 50 years? I'm skipping Nola because he was already a polished product in college who they fast tracked to the majors. So the only one I can think of is Cole Hamels. Schilling, Lee, Halladay, Carlton all came from other organizations. Brett Myers? Dick Ruthven? Larry Christenson? Pat Combs (lol) I can't even remember any good pitchers we traded away.

Ok, I'll give the Phillies Nola I guess because they didn't "ruin" him in those 18 starts in the minors. But I'm really having a hard time thinking of any more. Also, is there any team that is even worse than this at developing starters? (keep in mind I'm looking for worse, I don't care about all the teams that are better)

I know who it ain't.

 

[Cedrique]

Red Sox have done a pretty lousy job outside of Lester and Buchholz. And even with Buchholz, I'd still say his career was pretty disappointing. Buchholz had only three seasons with 25+ starts and two of those years were mediocre. 2013 looked like the year he was finally putting it all together and then he hit the DL for pretty much the entire summer. Eduardo Rodriguez wasn't drafted by the Sox. Matt Barnes was drafted as a SP in the first round of 2011 and he only made two starts in the majors and has been a fairly mediocre reliever. Tanner Houck was also drafted as a SP and he's relieving in AAA. Groome can't stay healthy.

Yeah, but in my 50 year window the Phillies easily beat them out in lack of solid starters. Clemens was an ace, Oil Can Boyd, Bruce Hurst, were solid no. 2-3 pitchers, Bob Stanley was good. Lonborg had years where he was a no. 1 but he might be outside of the 50 year rule.

 

[Cedrique]

I'll exclude some teams.

Braves,Dodgers,Expos/Nationals,Mets,Astros, ,Giants,Cardinals,Orioles, and now that I thought it through, the Red Sox. Still looking at Phillies with Seattle and Twins in the running.

Also Blue Jays with Halladay, Stieb, Jimmy Key, Clancy easily pass the Phillies.

 

[molsaniceman]

sorry but the rockies win this easily the park doesnt help but their best pitcher in 27 years is ubaldi

 

[CaptainStubing]

in the 70's and 80's, my Royals were really good at developing starting pitching. Not so much the last 30 years.

 

[SJ76]

Angels

 

[Guy Incognito]

I posted this on the Phillies board but then I remembered there are only like 8 people there and this is a question that is bothering me now? Here goes:


Here's an interesting question? How many good starting pitchers have come through the Phillies "system" in the last 50 years? I'm skipping Nola because he was already a polished product in college who they fast tracked to the majors. So the only one I can think of is Cole Hamels. Schilling, Lee, Halladay, Carlton all came from other organizations. Brett Myers? Dick Ruthven? Larry Christenson? Pat Combs (lol) I can't even remember any good pitchers we traded away.

Ok, I'll give the Phillies Nola I guess because they didn't "ruin" him in those 18 starts in the minors. But I'm really having a hard time thinking of any more. Also, is there any team that is even worse than this at developing starters? (keep in mind I'm looking for worse, I don't care about all the teams that are better)

I'd argue that Myers and Happ were at least adequate. Kevin Gross and Randy Wolf weren't great, but they weren't atrocious. Ryan Madson wouldn't hit the starter qualifier, but he was a pitcher the Phillies had from the minors on up, and he was an effective pitcher at multiple stops.