Woj: Cavs fire David Blatt

[trojanfan12]

i just think that it would be insane to attempt to win a championship with a coach you know are going to fire and have lost faith in. that seems totally insane to me and something griffin would never do. Griffin made a poitn to say- we are not leaving this up to chance...he could have avoided ALL OF THIS and just let Blatt fail and then NO ONE would have blamed LeBron..i think thats a big whole i nthis whole theory...

if Griffin and LeBron really didnt want any blame or any more pressure- wait till the end of the season-if they win awesome-if they dont fire blat- no one would have batted an eye.

Now you're just repeating the same shit over and over (as usual) about stuff that hasn't been claimed. I'd suggest you read the warning in post #1080.

 

[WiggyRuss]

No, I didn't. I said that Lebron's people started saying Lebron wanted him gone last January. There's a difference between knowing Lebron wanted him gone and knowing they were for sure going to fire him.

I'm sure that when Lebron's representatives first started saying he wanted Blatt out, the Cavs FO explained that they couldn't just fire him halfway through his first season and got them to calm down a little. Things probably got a little quiet over the summer because of how well the Cavs did in the playoffs and finals and then the complaints started getting louder and louder this season.

Additionally, I have also said that it was to protect both the Cavs and Lebron's image, not just Lebron's.

You have a real problem with taking peoples statements out of context and/or outright making shit up in your attempts to win the internet. I'm not the only one who's sick of it and this is your warning to stop.

please if you could explain what you meant then because i guess i misunderstood--- i mean- you are agreeing with me that secretly coming to the conclusion to fire a coach a year into the future wheny ou are trying to win a championship is insane right?

lol....i just dont know what else to say to be honest-

 

[trojanfan12]

@gordontrue

You know what the Blatt situation reminds me of in a way? When the Lakers hired Mike D'Antoni to coach Kobe, Dwight, etc. They had a coach who was in over his head trying to coach a team with that particular group and trying to have them run his type of offense.

The difference is, at the time Blatt was hired, the Cavs had no idea that Blatt was going to be coaching a title contender when he was hired, while the Lakers knew that D'Antoni would be.

 

[trojanfan12]

please if you could explain what you meant then because i guess i misunderstood--- i mean- you are agreeing with me that secretly coming to the conclusion to fire a coach a year into the future wheny ou are trying to win a championship is insane right?

lol....i just dont know what else to say to be honest-

Go back read the post you quoted. I explained it there. I also warned you in that very post about taking things that have been posted out of context and/or making shit up and then you continue to do it.

 

[Win TWINS!!!]

Wiggy you post a hundred thousand word posts every day. You really expect us to remember every little thing you've said?

You want to see some really long comments, ask him what his opinions on the ACA are...

 

[WiggyRuss]

Go back read the post you quoted. I explained it there. I also warned you in that very post about taking things that have been posted out of context and/or making shit up and then you continue to do it.

i read it and re-read it- and to me it looked like you were sayingthat LEeron wanted Blatt out a year ago- but the Cavs did not want to firehi m because it would have hurt both their reps- so instead they waited until the middle of this year to fire the guy? Is that correct? if thats not the case please tell me-s eriously-

I just dont see why any team would care about their rep so much to keep a coach that they privately wanted gone at the expense of having a guy you believe in lead your team. Right?

 

[trojanfan12]

i read it and re-read it- and to me it looked like you were sayingthat LEeron wanted Blatt out a year ago- but the Cavs did not want to firehi m because it would have hurt both their reps- so instead they waited until the middle of this year to fire the guy? Is that correct? if thats not the case please tell me-s eriously-

I just dont see why any team would care about their rep so much to keep a coach that they privately wanted gone at the expense of having a guy you believe in lead your team. Right?

In a nutshell yes. But there is a finer point to it. The Cavs knew last January that Lebron was frustrated with Blatt and wanted him gone. Lebron is in a position where he doesn't and shouldn't be expected to have the patience necessary to wait for Blatt to learn the NBA. So, he started complaining to his reps who voiced his concerns to the Cavs FO.

Cooler heads likely prevailed because the Cavs likely wanted to at least give Blatt something resembling a fair chance. I mean, even you have to be able to see how bad it would look for both the organization and Lebron to fire him halfway through his first season. They likely told Lebron's reps that they're aware of his concerns, but they need to see how he does. If things didn't get better, they'd take action.

Things got better, at least as far as winning games and the playoff run they had. I think many people thought that with Love out, they wouldn't get out of the East and when they lost Kyrie in game 1 of the finals, most thought sweep. Instead, the Cavs showed a lot of guts and heart and made that series competitive and fun to watch. So, they couldn't fire him in the off-season because there was actually some positive regard for them. Even Lebron/Cavs haters had to acknowledge the grit they showed.

Now, with how things have apparently been this season, especially in the locker room and the lack of energy and focus in games vs. better teams, it presented an opportunity to fire him. They knew there would be blowback, but not at the level that it would be if they had done it last January or over the summer.

In short, there really isn't a "good time" to fire someone because who really ever wants to have to do that, but there's definitely a "bad time" to fire someone and last January or over the summer would have been bad times to do it.

You have to understand just how important brand and legacy are. Look at Kobe's farewell tour. He's famously been a bit of jerk to the media and impatient with other players throughout his entire career.

Now, in his final season, he's suddenly open and charismatic with the media and trying to be a mentor to the young guys, especially D'Angelo Russell? That's purely a calculated move designed to boost his brand and legacy because he wants to have post career success in his business dealings.

 

[gordontrue]

So, you think that Lebron and the Cavs are so honest that they'd come out and own it? That if Lebron really had Blatt fired he'd come out and say "Yeah, I had him fired. The man doesn't know what he's doing." Or that the Cavs would say "Yeah, we had to fire him, Lebron has that opt out"?

Also, from what I've read, Lebron came out and said he was "surprised" that Blatt was fired and that's been about the only denial I've seen Lebron's involvement re: Blatt .

Most of what I have read has focused on why Blatt deserved to be fired. What I've read has focused far more on veterans not liking him and his lack of NBA knowledge. That's why, while I don't like how it happened, I understand why it was probably the right move.

Essentially, it was the right move made the wrong way. I also acknowledge that while it might have been done the wrong way, I'm not convinced that there was necessarily a right way.

The true "right way" would be to give Blatt a couple more seasons to learn and show what he can do and then let him go if necessary (similar to what the Lakers did with Del Harris before they got Phil). The problem is that Lebron is a 31, while Shaq and Kobe were in their mid and early 20's. The Lakers had time to give Harris a fair shot. The Cavs didn't have that luxury with Blatt.

Yeah, I totally agree with all of this. That's the thing. If LeBron was 100% the active, driving force behind getting Blatt out of town... of course no one from the organization is going to come out and say that. On the other hand... if he simply agreed with and accepted a decision driven primarily by Griffin... they would be saying the exact same things.

Basically, what LeBron and Griffin say doesn't really prove anything either way.

 

[gordontrue]

@gordontrue

You know what the Blatt situation reminds me of in a way? When the Lakers hired Mike D'Antoni to coach Kobe, Dwight, etc. They had a coach who was in over his head trying to coach a team with that particular group and trying to have them run his type of offense.

The difference is, at the time Blatt was hired, the Cavs had no idea that Blatt was going to be coaching a title contender when he was hired, while the Lakers knew that D'Antoni would be.

Yeah... it makes me wonder what would have happened if LeBron had made his decision earlier about going back to CLE (or somehow let CLE know ealier, depending on when you think LeBron had his mind made up).

Blatt probably would've ended up with Kerr in GS and the Cavs probably would've ended up with a veteran coach.

 

[trojanfan12]

Yeah, I totally agree with all of this. That's the thing. If LeBron was 100% the active, driving force behind getting Blatt out of town... of course no one from the organization is going to come out and say that. On the other hand... if he simply agreed with and accepted a decision driven primarily by Griffin... they would be saying the exact same things.

Basically, what LeBron and Griffin say doesn't really prove anything either way.

Of course Lebron didn't walk into Griffin's office and demand he be fired. Imo, Lebron's involvement is twofold. He got frustrated with Blatt and wanted him out, so his reps let the FO know, more than once. The other part of Lebron's involvement was that he poisoned the well by not giving Blatt a chance. Once it was clear that Lebron wasn't on board, the rest of the team didn't have to be either.

And again, Blatt contributed to his own demise by not being a man and standing up to Lebron.

 

[trojanfan12]

Yeah... it makes me wonder what would have happened if LeBron had made his decision earlier about going back to CLE (or somehow let CLE know ealier, depending on when you think LeBron had his mind made up).

Blatt probably would've ended up with Kerr in GS and the Cavs probably would've ended up with a veteran coach.

Yeah, that's why I think that more than anything, it was just bad timing. It doesn't look good because of the overall circumstances and Lebron is very polarizing, but when you remove all of the other stuff, that's what it seems to boil down to.

If Lebron stays in Miami or, as you suggest, somehow lets the Cavs know of his intention to return earlier than he did, Blatt never gets hired and the Hoop gets deprived of a (so far) 55 page thread.

 

[gordontrue]

Of course Lebron didn't walk into Griffin's office and demand he be fired. Imo, Lebron's involvement is twofold. He got frustrated with Blatt and wanted him out, so his reps let the FO know, more than once. The other part of Lebron's involvement was that he poisoned the well by not giving Blatt a chance. Once it was clear that Lebron wasn't on board, the rest of the team didn't have to be either.

And again, Blatt contributed to his own demise by not being a man and standing up to Lebron.

This is a nice succinct version of what I think is most likely how it happened.

 

[LAD]

@WiggyRuss
Since you're an attorney now, maybe file some appeal as to why Love/Kyrie weren't picked as All Stars.

Give us your list of reasons again as to why Love is better than Bosh (who has been selected 11 years in a row) EVEN when playing with James/Wade.

Well I imagine he's fine since his other crush RW made it. Now had none of them made it all hell would've broken loose up in here!

 

[LAD]

I have always acknowledged some level of bias in my opinions - something you and turnup have ridiculously been unwilling to do. But I approach this stuff with way more objectivity than you give me credit for when you start going this route. If I'm so completely un-objective... it should be an easy chore to tear apart my arguments instead of attacking me as a poster.

I can agree with this!

 

[ChrisGar15]

@gordontrue

You know what the Blatt situation reminds me of in a way? When the Lakers hired Mike D'Antoni to coach Kobe, Dwight, etc. They had a coach who was in over his head trying to coach a team with that particular group and trying to have them run his type of offense.

The difference is, at the time Blatt was hired, the Cavs had no idea that Blatt was going to be coaching a title contender when he was hired, while the Lakers knew that D'Antoni would be.

I thought it was closer to when Magic had his coach fired. (Magic demanded to be traded -- but Buss fired Westhead instead. Westhead had coached the Lakers to NBA Championship a little over a year before this.)

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

James has little credibility unless he doesn't understand the definition of the words he speaks.

Just in the last few days hrl

Of course Lebron didn't walk into Griffin's office and demand he be fired. Imo, Lebron's involvement is twofold. He got frustrated with Blatt and wanted him out, so his reps let the FO know, more than once. The other part of Lebron's involvement was that he poisoned the well by not giving Blatt a chance. Once it was clear that Lebron wasn't on board, the rest of the team didn't have to be either.

And again, Blatt contributed to his own demise by not being a man and standing up to Lebron.

In a few days James will say he never met Blatt and has no idea who he is.

 

[LAD]

why not just fire him in July then when they lost the title.

I asked this same question-albeit on the flip side of this debate you're having with Trojan (meaning I'm not favoring your argument)
The only plausible conclusion I can come to is they really didn't know how far away this team was/is from competing with the Warriors for a title. The loss on Xmas, topped with that terrible, terrible loss in Cleveland, was the straw that broke the camel's back imo. It was the exclamation mark that sent them into panic mode.

When this team plays mediocre teams they look good. But not so much against the elite teams in the West. The only feasible move they could make at this point that would have a big enough impact on the team-if it worked out- was to change coaches. I see this as their last trick in the hat-during this season- that can have a big enough impact to change the outcome of their season.

Just trading for another player by the deadline isn't an option because there isn't a guy out there available right now that could have a big enough effect. Other teams are not exactly falling all over themselves to help the Cavs win a title.

 

[trojanfan12]

I thought it was closer to when Magic had his coach fired. (Magic demanded to be traded -- but Buss fired Westhead instead. Westhead had coached the Lakers to NBA Championship a little over a year before this.)

Yeah, that one works as far as the actual firing. But what I'm referring to is Blatt being hired to coach a very young team and develop them into a contender, that was the job description he was handed.

But, when Lebron came back and they traded for Love, his job description changed to being expected to win a title and that put him in over his head.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

let me translate this post- "bullshit bullshit bullshit- i know i was wrong"

If you say so, but, if it is such a great no brainer deal for the Cavs, then why the 3 month holdout?

Q1. How much do Cavs offer Tristan if James isn't on the Cavs?
Q2. How much do Cavs offer Tritstan if he's not part of Klutch?


Here's what you can't grasp.
Regardless of any words that come out of any Cavs front office personal, stating they make the decisions, anyone with even an iota of brain knows it's total bullshit.

James will get whatever he wants, because if he doesn't, his exit letter to the fans of NE Ohio will be apologetic, but also state the reasons that Cavs management didn't live up to their promises as to helping him win championships.

They need to keep that list of reasons at 0.

 

[trojanfan12]

If you say so, but, if it is such a great no brainer deal for the Cavs, then why the 3 month holdout?

Q1. How much do Cavs offer Tristan if James isn't on the Cavs?
Q2. How much do Cavs offer Tritstan if he's not part of Klutch?


Here's what you can't grasp.
Regardless of any words that come out of any Cavs front office personal, stating they make the decisions, anyone with even an iota of brain knows it's total bullshit.

James will get whatever he wants, because if he doesn't, his exit letter to the fans of NE Ohio will be apologetic, but also state the reasons that Cavs management didn't live up to their promises as to helping him win championships.

They need to keep that list of reasons at 0.

Not sure why this is such a difficult concept for him. Just because a player is being paid a certain amount, doesn't mean he's worth it. At least not to anyone other than the team that signed him.

From a pure business perspective, Kobe is a lot closer to being worth the $24 million the Lakers are paying him than TT is the $14 million he's getting. Not for his on the court production (obviously) but because of what the Lakers will make from having him on the team. Especially with this being his farewell tour. No one is going to the arena to see Tristan Thompson.

We get that the Cavs had no choice but to overpay him, he's Lebron's boy. But that doesn't make him worth what he's being paid.