Wizards & Raptors look shaky

[podsox]

Why is the defense so bad though? Is Gasol that bad? In previous years with Rose the defense was still really good so what is the issue this year?

rose has always been a below average defender but he has been even worse since returning. gasol hasn't even tried on defense in 2 months

 

[trojanfan12]

rose has always been a below average defender but he has been even worse since returning. gasol hasn't even tried on defense in 2 months

I haven't seen nearly as many Bulls games as I would like, but it sounds like what the Lakers used to go through with Pau from time to time.

Pau is never going to win DPOY, but he can be a solid defender. However, to be a solid defender, he needs a lot of perimeter help. When the Lakers were going to the finals with him at Center, they had solid perimeter defense and Pau did a good job of defending bigs in the post and defending against the occasional guard or sf that beat his man off the dribble and got into the paint.

However, in his last 3-4 years or so, when the Lakers perimeter defense wasn't very good and perimeter defenders were getting beat off the dribble more often, Pau would basically turn into a revolving door in the paint and it also affected his defense vs. other bigs.

If Thibs can get the perimeter defense shored up a bit, Pau will be fine defensively.

 

[bksballer89]

3 weeks later and both look bad especially Washington

 

[Hambombs]

Warriors playing with a lot of energy. Something I didn't see last night

 

[bksballer89]

Down 32 at home lol

 

[wildturkey]

Down 32 at home lol

The bigger LOL is WSH losing to Philly with 3 mins left

 

[bksballer89]

Psycho T just went PSYCHO

 

[bksballer89]

Toronto down 41 heading to the 4th

 

[wildturkey]

And the Wiz just lost to the Philadelphia D-League affiliate.

 

[bksballer89]

And the Wiz just lost to the Philadelphia D-League affiliate.

Started the year 22-9....11-17 since

 

[Demonjoe93]

God, these two teams are looking terrible lately. Now the Hawks have a nine game lead in the East. With Rose hurt, and the Raptors and Wizards struggling, it looks like nothing will stop Cleveland from getting the second seed.

 

[bksballer89]

God, these two teams are looking terrible lately. Now the Hawks have a nine game lead in the East. With Rose hurt, and the Raptors and Wizards struggling, it looks like nothing will stop Cleveland from getting the second seed.

Barring a epic collapse ATL will have the top seed.

Still looking like the Bulls/Cavs 2nd round match-up though

 

[WiggyRuss]

3 weeks later and both look bad especially Washington

Washington is a flawed team.

Nene and Gortat are definitely legit front court players- but they have spacing issues- and neither can guard on the perimeter- neither can guard the athletic/sweet shooting 4's out there like Milsap, like Love...

Wall is a very good player. I think one day he will be good enough to win a championship. But he is not good enough to make win anything more than one series when his running mate, Beal, has a PER under 14 and shoots 42% from the field.

In Beal's defense- he is 21 years old. TWENTY ONE. He is right on track to one day be an all star at the age of 24-25..maybe even earlier. But right now its unfair to ask him to be the 2nd best player - and really- he is the teams best pure scorer-

Wall is a pass-first PG- he scores a good amount for sure- and averages more than Beal- but Beal needs to score 20 points a game if this team is going to make any kind of noise and he is not good enough to do that yet.

When we look at the East- the 3rd best player on some of the good teams-

i mean on the Cavs its either Love or Irving-

on the Hawks its either Milsap or Teague or Korver (as Horford I think is the best)...

on the Raptors the 2 best are Lowry and Derozan- the third best is probably who is 22 years old- a legit 7 footer- has a PER of 20, and goes for 12, 9, and 1.5...

On the Heat you have Wade, Bosh- and then Dragic as the 3rd best....


On the Wizards- your #2 of course is Beal- and your #3 is probably Gortat. Hes 31, has a 17 PER, 12, 8, 1.5- pretty much the EXACT same as Valunciunas- except his talent has maxed out- while Valuncuinas is a legit 7 footer and is going to get a lot better.


How did we think that the Wizards could win in the playoffs when Bradley Beal of 21 years old- and Marcin Gortat- 31 year old, solid center, but definitely not anything spectacular is the 3rd best player....

Who is their 4th best ? either an ancient pierce or ancient nene?

Their last chance at adding a talent from the lotto before they got good was- by some bad luck- in a horrible horrible draft- and they took the wrong guy- in Otto Porter Jr. - he may still turn into a solid rotation guy- who knows- but right now he is giving them very little and he was the 3rd overall pick- and he was SUPPOSED to eventually be that #3 guy on a team that can make some noise. and that is just not happening unless he really turns it around.

So please....

DJ- you LOVED the Wizards in the preseason and picked them as the 2nd best team in the conference.

How?

How? with Wall as your #1 (legit), Beal (21 years old) at #2, Gortat at #3, Pierce (37 years old) at #4.

How does that compare to - Horford, Milsap, Korver, Teague-
or Butler, Gasol, Noah, and (Rose or Gibson or Mirotic)
, or Love, LeBron, Kyrie, Varejao (and now just substitute Mozgov),
or Lowry, DeRerozan, Valncuinas, Ross,
or Bosh, Wade, and now Whiteside, Dragic (or back then Bosh, Wade, Deng, McRoberts),

I think they are a lot closer to this group- then the above group


Jefferson, Knight, Stephenson, and (MKG or Zeller or Vonleh).....
or Drummond, Monroe, Jennings, KCP, or
Giannis, Parker, MCW (was Knight), Illysova,
or Joe Johnson, D. Williams, B. Lopez, M. Plumlee
or George, West, Hill, Hibbert

Wall is great- he is 24- in his prime- and an elite player- but Beal is 21 and not nearly ready. Pierce is 37 and too old- Gortat is 31 and too limited. Porter is 21 and has looked overmatched, Nene is 32, has problems staying healthy

The Wiz over acheived early- and are falling back to earth now. In an East where Cleveland had a rough time coming together early, where the Heat had injuries to Wade and other key members, where the Bucks have overacheived but seen Parker go down, Sanders lose his mind, where Indiana lost Paul George- a top player in the league, where Detroit was lost until they cut LVP Josh Smith, where Stephenson pretty much sabotaged the Hornets until they figured out how to play again, where Boston has purposefully gone in the tank, where the Sixers have purposefully gone in the tank,

The Wizards were one of the few teams in the East that really has not dealt with major injury issues except here and there to Beal- they brought back their whole team except just switching Pierce for Ariza which is not a huge move. With all the injuries, and turnover and tanking in the East- the Wizards are about the only team that came into this year stable- and its why they got out to such a good start.

Now- the rest of the conference has figured their shit out. Cleveland had its moves and we have all seen what they have accomplished. The pistons dropped Smith and have played MUCH better ball than the Wiz have over the last 2 months. The Bucks overcame the loss of Parker and Sanders to keep playing good ball, the Hornets have been better than the Wiz the last 2 months since they began to figure out how to assimlate Stephenson, The Heat have had really unfortunate luck injury wise or else I think they would be on the cusp of passing the Wiz, The Pacers have played good ball lately and George might be coming back....

How many people out there think that the Wiz will have a top 8 record in the East from here on out? They are healthy and i dont think they will.

I think Cleveland, Atlanta, Toronto, Chicago, Milwaukee, Detroit, Miami, Charlotte, Indiana, ---- and i am not sure - but with Thad Young i just might even give the Nets the nod over the Wizards

 

[WiggyRuss]

Barring a epic collapse ATL will have the top seed.

Still looking like the Bulls/Cavs 2nd round match-up though

u think the Raptors fall to 4?- and the seeding is something like 1. Atl 2. Cle. 3. Chi 4. Tor 5. Mil 6. Wiz 7. Mia 8.Indy?

I personally HOPE - toronto gets the 3rd and clev the 2- but i think you are right....cle will prob have to go through both chi and atl to mia.....

to be honest thats a pretty rough road...with a healthy rose and bosh thats actually really rough and would be the hardest eastern road i have seen in a years upon years....but of course rose and bosh arent healthy


I read that Rose had part of his miniscus removed- and removing it, instead of having ti fixed- allows for a faster return date- but worse overall long term health

forgive me if i am mistaken- but i am pretty sure that this is exactly what Dwade did years ago when the heat beat the pistons in the playoffs, or maybe lost to tehm- im not sure--- i KNOW wade had miniscus surgery and opted for removal rather than repair- and that subsequently he has called that a mistake- i am not sure of the exact time of that though.

Any miami fans know? and do they rememebr how wade looked coming back? and have any guess on what rose will look like?

 

[WiggyRuss]

The Wizards are just not that great......they beat the bad teams pretty consistently- but they are not beating anyone in the playoffs

Who really thought that Wall/Beal/Gortat/Pierce/Nene was a really good team? I mean, besides DJ...

this team was one of the only in the East that didnt have major injury issues- and kept its whole roster pretty much intact the first couple months of the season

once the other teams got healthy, made some moves, and gelled- its clear there are plenty of teams just as good as the Wizards. Bradley Beal is not ready to be a #2 guy yet- and Gortat is not good enough to be a real #3.

 

[purguy12]

I can't believe that Wash lost to the bulls. No Rose, Butler, and Gibson and Bulls still won. Nice win for the Bulls.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

I can't believe that Wash lost to the bulls. No Rose, Butler, and Gibson and Bulls still won. Nice win for the Bulls.

Not really. The Wizards have lost 7 of 8 & the only win was after squandering a huge lead against the Pistons & barely hanging on. Included in those losses is one to the lowly 76ers & a blowout loss to the Timberwolves. The Wizards are playing as poorly as anyone right now - not sure if they are going to recover this season.

 

[purguy12]

Not really. The Wizards have lost 7 of 8 & the only win was after squandering a huge lead against the Pistons & barely hanging on. Included in those losses is one to the lowly 76ers & a blowout loss to the Timberwolves. The Wizards are playing as poorly as anyone right now - not sure if they are going to recover this season.

Yeah but Wiz usually play up against the bulls. They hate the Bulls and for the Bulls to get this win with those injuries is shocking. I bashed Noah this year and know he was banged up but he has looked avg this year, has started to look like the old Noah. He says he is finally healthy. Bulls need Noah to play well for them to have a chance to win it all.

Mirotic looks like a stud in the makings. Really think Bulls trade Gibson(8.5 mill) next year to get this guy more playing time plus add pieces in other areas. I can see Bulls getting a SG or a nice back up PG for Rose or a Mid 1st rd pick (15-20th pick range).

This would free up some money to give to Butler and also add another piece. Don't get me wrong I like Gibson but Bulls FO is a business and I know they need to free up some money. I think they would go pick instead of player for player trade. Gibson is a starter on most teams. I will miss him.

 

[bksballer89]

Toronto & Washington are both 2-8 in their last 10 games

 

[WiggyRuss]

I haven't seen nearly as many Bulls games as I would like, but it sounds like what the Lakers used to go through with Pau from time to time.

Pau is never going to win DPOY, but he can be a solid defender. However, to be a solid defender, he needs a lot of perimeter help. When the Lakers were going to the finals with him at Center, they had solid perimeter defense and Pau did a good job of defending bigs in the post and defending against the occasional guard or sf that beat his man off the dribble and got into the paint.

However, in his last 3-4 years or so, when the Lakers perimeter defense wasn't very good and perimeter defenders were getting beat off the dribble more often, Pau would basically turn into a revolving door in the paint and it also affected his defense vs. other bigs.

If Thibs can get the perimeter defense shored up a bit, Pau will be fine defensively.

At this point in his career Pau is probably materially a worse defender than he was even 2-3 years ago. He will be 35 in July. I have watched him and the Bulls as much as any team out there besides the Cavs- and with Pau you can tell that he has lost some quickness and lateral movement and it seemed that really started last year with the Lakers.

He is still effective enough to guard real centers- but against teams that can go small - he can really be exploited when he is put in pick and rolls and forced to guard the quicker-not true 7 footer bigs that we see so often in todays game. Just for example the Cavs- when they go with Love and Thompson as their PF/Combo- Pau really struggles- since its basically unfair of the Bulls to ask him to guard Love all over the court and extend to the 3 pt line- and Thompson is too quickfor him. Or say like Atlanta- with Horford and Milsap- obviously Gasol cannot guard Milsap- and even Horford is too quick for him.

He still can be effective against real bigs- such as your Eastern Conference true centers like Mozgov's, your Gortat's, your Hibbert's, your Jeffersons, your Whitesides.

I actually think this becomes something to exploit against the Bulls since Noah and Gasol each do not like guarding on the perimeter- Love makes himself a tough matchup against the Bulls.

I know this is a long winded post- to do nothing more but agree with you for the most part....but we have seen how Chicago has gone from being a great defensive team and near the top of the rankings the previous few years- and then this year they have dropped fairly significantly- and I think Gasol is one of the principle reasons why. He does give the Bulls 18 pts a game and a legit insider scoring option which is something they DESPERATELY needed if they wanted to be serious title contenders- so i think he was a great acquisition overall---- but his defense is not good- and there is a noticeable difference between him now- and even just 2 or so years ago.