We are going to owe some loot in a few years

[Beggs]

So I don't hear any sass, all dollar amounts are in 10^6's

Ludwick: '13 - $1. '15 - $9
Broxton: '13 - $4. '15 - $9
Cueto: '15 - $10
Bruce: '13 - $7.5. '15 - $12
Votto: '15 - $14
BP: '15 - $12
Marshall: '15 - $6.5


Chapman can accept or decline a $5 option for 2015 5 days after 2014 WS. Something tells me he may decline that.


Arroyo is owed $15 through 2021
Chapman is owed $1.25 every november until 2020


Opening Day payrolls
(Major League contracts plus pro-rated signing bonuses):
2013: $106,855,533
2012: $ 87,826,167
2011: $ 80,826,667
2010: $ 76,151,500
2009: $ 73,558,500
2008: $ 74,117,695
2007: $ 68,904,980
2006: $ 60,909,519
2005: $ 61,892,583
2004: $ 46,615,250
2003: $ 59,355,667
2002: $ 45,050,390
2001: $ 48,986,000
2000: $ 44,200,000

 

[JohnU]

I assume the numbers crunchers have seen a way to deal with this.
It boggles the mind, in any event.

 

[Redsfan1507]

The price of beer is probably going up... As are Great American Insurance premiums...and ticket prices. The MLB minimum is about $450 K above the Fed minimum wage, and of course the meal money (and menu) is better too, but there are no government retraining programs or free medical when they lose their job permanently at 29 years old either. A MLB pension is earned quicker than any profession other than the US Congress, but it's probably more challenging competition to get the chance. High demand and low supply means high pay, but it's hard, and short lived occupation. Easy never pays shit, but it's cheap.

 

[redsfan03]

That's why signing ill-advised contracts like Ludwick's and Broxton's can come back to bite you. Luddy was a 2-year wonder. Broxton is being paid closer money to be a mediocre set up man. We all knew Votto's contract was going to take a sizable chunk of the budget, but we knew that was probably the only way to keep him.

 

[Redsfan1507]

I think not putting Chapman in the rotation is the worst decision since the Indians allowed Europeans off the boat in the New World. Decisions like that invite future problems.

 

[Redsfan1507]

Babe Ruth was the best LHSP of his day...and they made him an outfielder so he could hit 700 homers and win a ton of Championships. Think Dusty would have done that ? CHANGE is necessary sometimes.

 

[ckhokie]

I think the Reds TV contract is up in 2016. Last I read, it was assumed that would be in the $70-80 mill/year range. Not a bad supplement.

 

[Redsfan1507]

About 1970, only elite power hitters, and Pete Rose made $100 K a year. It was big news about Rose, a singles hitter. Now that elite figure is around $20 million a year... Or 200 times that amount. If other things would have increased at the same rate, the 3 Br 1 bath slab home built for $16k would be worth $3.2 million. The average family wage would be $2.4 million and a gallon of gas would be $38. The salary structure is completely out of hand. Owners and free agency didn't really cause that, we fans that pay the price allowed that.

 

[JohnU]

Teams can still win by staying cheap but they have to churn their product too much and the risks are high. It's hard to market Andrew McCutchen if he's going to play for you for 2 years and then move on to Detroit.

The money IS there for the Reds to pay their top players, and don't let them fool you. The team makes scads of dollars on radio/TV/Internet because the Reds have a fairly national fan base, believe that or not. It's that the core market isn't big enough to fill up the stadium. Too many real fans live 2-4 hours away from the stadium. They might make two trips to Cincy a year.

Cincy has always been a difficult place to fill up a ballpark.

The days of Crosley, if they had 6-7,000 they were elated.

Riverfront was just a horrible ballpark. Period.

The Reds will get around. 2.6M this year. It's less than they want but a whole lot better than some of the other teams in MLB that hope to contend.

 

[Dr. Cranfill]

Yeah, numbers look crazy to most us but you have to remember, with the advent of the DVR/TiVo, live sporting events are the last place advertisers can live comfortable in the knowledge that their commercials are being seen. For regular shows, people just record them and fast forward thru the commercials. With the digitial age and everyone on a smart phone, you cant hide from sports results therefore, you watch them live making those ad spots PRIME REAL ESTATE.

Sports teams are reaping the rewards. Way more money in it these days because of that. Yeah, our payroll is skyrocketing but so are our revenues....this isnt even accounting for increased ballpark income due to having a winning product on the field.

 

[tlakes20]

I've heard several interviews from Castellini that he really doesn't care about making money, he says he's not in it for the money. He wants a winning team, I think he'll continue to spend as much as he thinks necessary and as much as the fans will support the team.

 

[JohnU]

Castellini can say that because he isn't going to lose money. If the ballclub were hemorrhaging money, he'd be like the beanbrain in San Diego or the worse beanbrain in Miami. I think the Reds bought into the "small market" mentality back in the first part of this century but realized they could compete with the big dogs. That's why they signed Chapman. Actually the Cordero signing was the first step but nobody really paid much attention to that at the time, other than to say ... whoa! $45M for one guy! Yeah, we tend to overlook CoCo's contributions to the present day.

 

[ckhokie]

Sports teams are reaping the rewards. Way more money in it these days because of that. Yeah, our payroll is skyrocketing but so are our revenues....this isnt even accounting for increased ballpark income due to having a winning product on the field.

You sure about that?? 16k tickets sold for yesterday's game, 18k the day before, and the Reds are still 20th in the league in average home attendance, right about where they always are. And by far the lowest of any team that is actually good.

 

[JohnU]

Ticket sales aren't the main value in ball club profits now -- if you have a decent TV/radio package. This is probably a lot more complicated than we want to discuss, but unless you know what all the sources of revenue are and how they compare to expenditures, it's all guesswork. Bad attendance could be for many reasons and the worst would be that the public doesn't see the Reds as a value. If they don't see it as a value, those low numbers would be evident in July and August. So far, that's not been true.

 

[Hit-n-Run]

The Reds get a pretty nice chunk of revenue from the "Revenue Sharing". Without that they'd be less likely to have spent the amounts we currently see invested in this team. The MLB National TV deal added a lot to every teams revenue, but when you're in the bottom third of wealth, your share is going to be a higher percentage. The pending local TV deal in 2016 will enhance the teams revenue as well.

The Reds will never rank high in attendance, the fan base is too sprawled out.
The area they do above market share is in radio. If radio revenue was in keeping with TV revenue, then they'd really have something. But, the Reds do understand their market and do a great job marketing this team.

 

[JohnU]

The revenue sharing thing was the biggest beef in Pittsburgh and Miami, where the team got more than a nice chunk of change and instead of investing it in talent, well ... it went somewhere else.

Reds radio has always been the linchpin for its success. Back in the day, the Reds radio network was a major sprawl, and it still is. They have station coverage as far west as Hopkinsville KY, which is in west KY. WLW has a nice reach.

 

[Redsfan1507]

I have a smartazz friend who's a Yankee fan. He says small market fans aren't really fans unless they spend money on the team. He called Redsfans sea-gulls- they scavenge peanuts thrown to them from paying customers on the ferry boat, and shit on them, but never pay the toll. I told him he was mistaken, that's description of a big city politician, not a baseball fan.

 

[JohnU]

Kinda goes a long way toward enforcing the stereotype we have of Yankees fans, who probably haven't been within 1,500 miles of New York in their lives.

 

[Redsfan1507]

Yeah this guy lives in Long Island and although he only goes to a couple Yankee games a year, he
spends as much as I do with a 30 game Reds package.

 

[JohnU]

The guy has great minor league ball right on Lon Gisland ... the fabled Ducks.