This is why so many people are against fighting in hockey

[Slimpikins]

Here is my analogy:

If I don't want diarrhea, I don't eat at Taco Bell. But if I do choose to eat at Taco Bell then I expect and prepare for the consequences.

I have to work in the morning gentlemen, have a good night.

 

[juliansteed]

I do not see that I proved anything for you. He is still playing a hockey game where fighting occurs at a much higher rate than most other places in society. He has willingly agreed to play this hockey game fully knowing the risks.

He then proceed to undertake a course of action that has a very high probability of garnering a physical reaction. I find it intellectually dishonest to then hide behind the fighting is illegal rule. It's against the rules to board someone too. Should players not worry about turning their backs on the play when someone is lining them up?

Again, none of this is an excuse for the actions of the guy beating on him after he goes down. I just think that he was putting himself in a bad situation by not defending himself.

The point I am making is that I'm aware fighting happens so much more in hockey, but why is that so? You guys just basically keep saying "because it does". Fighting happens a lot at bars too. If you enter a bar you also know the risks you are subjecting yourself too, especially if you pull a dick move like try to cut someone in line.

And of course the player should have defended himself. I guess I didn't realize that was the point being debated. I think everyone can agree on that one.

 

[KennyBanyeah]

The old west was a pretty violent environment too but I don't think that can justify blowing someone's head off for cheating at a card game. Just because it might happen frequently doesn't make it right. Yes you should be prepared for it, but it doesn't justify the other guy's actions.

Seriously, lets think about this for a moment. I get that snowing the goalie was a dick move. I do. But maybe I'm out of touch and don't realize just how much of an epidemic snowing the goalie has become in hockey. Does it really justify that kind of violence? Especially in a league of 16 year olds where fighting of any kind is not tolerated?

You're right of course. The violence was obviously excessive. The offender went way too far.

However, the story should point out that if you act like an idiot you very well might get the shit kicked out of you. Call me old-fashioned or whatever but I hope that if my kid acts like an ass and rubs a victory in another kid/team's face that he GETS HIS ASS KICKED, and I mean hard. Lesson learned.

After all is said and done, it's still a poor argument for banning fighting. Fighting is banned in the league in question; how did that work out? People will be shitheads and another kind of shithead will get so mad that they will beat the shit out of them, regardless of rules and regulations.

 

[juliansteed]

You're right of course. The violence was obviously excessive. The offender went way too far.

However, the story should point out that if you act like an idiot you very well might get the shit kicked out of you. Call me old-fashioned or whatever but I hope that if my kid acts like an ass and rubs a victory in another kid/team's face that he GETS HIS ASS KICKED, and I mean hard. Lesson learned.

After all is said and done, it's still a poor argument for banning fighting. Fighting is banned in the league in question; how did that work out? People will be shitheads and another kind of shithead will get so mad that they will beat the shit out of them, regardless of rules and regulations.

I'm not sure if you are implying that I'm suggesting this incident is a reason to ban fighting from hockey or not, but just to clarify I most certainly am not. Although I don't really care much 1 way or the other if they do. I'm simply suggesting that these are the types of incidents that add fuel to the fire for those who do want to ban it at the higher levels. If you want to keep good clean fights in the game, then I think you have to come down harder on these incidents and make a clear distinction between the 2. If you allow it at the higher levels it creates a culture/mindset that will trickle down to the lower levels. That is why I said earlier it would be unfair for it to result in a criminal charge for this kid when the pros have gotten away (in terms of criminal charges) with just as bad if not worse.

I don't think we are too far apart. Same for Slim after re-reading his first post on the topic. Whether or not the guy should have expected it and defended himself is pretty much a moot point to anything I've been saying, but for the record I do agree.

 

[KennyBanyeah]

I'm not sure if you are implying that I'm suggesting this incident is a reason to ban fighting from hockey or not, but just to clarify I most certainly am not. Although I don't really care much 1 way or the other if they do. I'm simply suggesting that these are the types of incidents that add fuel to the fire for those who do want to ban it at the higher levels. If you want to keep good clean fights in the game, then I think you have to come down harder on these incidents and make a clear distinction between the 2. If you allow it at the higher levels it creates a culture/mindset that will trickle down to the lower levels. That is why I said earlier it would be unfair for it to result in a criminal charge for this kid when the pros have gotten away (in terms of criminal charges) with just as bad if not worse.

I don't think we are too far apart. Same for Slim after re-reading his first post on the topic. Whether or not the guy should have expected it and defended himself is pretty much a moot point to anything I've been saying, but for the record I do agree.

Cool.

I think we're pretty much on the same page.

Most of the time I think that fighting needs to go by the wayside. Unfortunately the league doesn't seem capable of eliminating dirty play and fighting probably helps just a little bit.

 

[Vadered]

I'm "okay" with the cross check. Not really okay, but I understand it given the situation. But once a guy is on the ice, he's not fair game. You don't get to remove his helmet and strike him repeatedly in the head. I haven't seen the video, but if that's what happened, then yeah, the other guy deserves more than four games. He would have gotten it in the NHL. Correction, he should have gotten it in the NHL but whether or not he would depends on how the wheel of justice lands that spin.

If you want to fight a guy, fight him fair. If you want to send a message with your stick or crosscheck a guy, that's pretty low and you should think twice. If you want to beat on a defenseless teenager, you probably should reexamine what exactly is going through your head.

 

[dash]

I have a question for julian - When do you sleep man?

/Isn't it coming up on 4 am for you?

 

[KennyBanyeah]

I have a question for julian - When do you sleep man?

/Isn't it coming up on 4 am for you?

He sleeps when the Mooseheads lose!!!

 

[elocomotive]

im actually swaying on the ban fighting side. Im tired of it all. fighting today does not have the same meaning as fighting in the 90s and anything before. its just so staged... this is insane

Excellent...

 

[Dacks]

Yeah, it's a bit crazy that we think getting mugged "comes with the territory" when you step on the hockey rink.

I got news: there are assholes who pull dipshit moves (like snowing the goalie) in every sport. And yet those sports somehow survive without this bullshit "code". In fact, I'd say hockey has even more instances of cheap shit despite the claim that retribution (like we see above) supposedly "polices" the game.

If snowing the goalie is a dick move, then it should be a 2min penalty for unsportsmanlike. Period. That's how other sports work. The guy will get the message. Instead, in hockey culture, we shy away from giving penalties for minor stuff because nobody wants the refs to "affect the outcome of the game". Yeah, because letting tempers flare and players beat the shit out of each other is the better outcome.

 

[pixburgher66]

An aspect I don't like about this: just because he's a 16 year old boy doesn't mean he has to fight. I don't like that. "Well you're playing hockey, you may have to fight!" The kid incited some anger, but getting beat up? Come on. I don't buy the "well, he should've protected himself!" Just cause the kids not a fighter, he's at fault? Meh. 16 year olds shouldn't be fighting.

 

[BF4L]

Pro level - leave fighting alone

Kids level - automatic suspension.


The difference is the kid (#11) sprayed the goalie and while that is a foolish thing to do he did not deserve the beating he got. He got a huge crosscheck from behind was knocked down and before he could even remotely defend himself the other kid was throwing haymakers.

 

[Comeds]

If they remove fighting from bars, then thats the last time I go to bars.

 

[RobBase]

A 16 year old midget player deserves to be hospitalized because he snowed the other teams goalie?

He deserved to get his ass beat. If injuries resulted in the fight he personally asked for, then so be it. I was raised by the notion "Don't start anything you can't finish." Want be a **** and snow the goalie in the blowout? Deal with the consequences.

 

[dash]

I was raised by the notion "Don't start anything you can't finish."

When I was a kid, my father told me, "Never hit anyone in anger, unless you're absolutely sure you can get away with it."

/Just kidding, that was Ziskey's dad

 

[pixburgher66]

He deserved to get his ass beat. If injuries resulted in the fight he personally asked for, then so be it. I was raised by the notion "Don't start anything you can't finish." Want be a **** and snow the goalie in the blowout? Deal with the consequences.

Does snowing a goalie result in injury to a goalie? Holy crap...it's ICE not freaking ACID. You shove the kid and say "get out of here" you don't beat him to a pulp. There are very few situations in which beating a guy is warranted in LIFE...in hockey, there's no reason to beat a guy like that.

 

[mattola]

Im a goalie it doesn't affect me at all. It should be an automatic Penalty in all leagues but it didn't deserve that response.

 

[RobBase]

Does snowing a goalie result in injury to a goalie? Holy crap...it's ICE not freaking ACID. You shove the kid and say "get out of here" you don't beat him to a pulp. There are very few situations in which beating a guy is warranted in LIFE...in hockey, there's no reason to beat a guy like that.

Point is he started it. You're right, most snowing the goalie results in just shoving. But, sometimes shoving leads to fighting. And fighting leads to injuries. No snowing, no shoving, no fight, no injuries. I prefer to focus on the original cause and not the resulting effect. If that was my kid I'd use the opportunity to teach him a lesson about not being a ****. Why are you only complaining about the kid who got his ass kicked? What about all the other kids who were fighting? You are mad cause this doosh got hurt. That's his fault and no one elses.

 

[pixburgher66]

Point is he started it. You're right, most snowing the goalie results in just shoving. But, sometimes shoving leads to fighting. And fighting leads to injuries. No snowing, no shoving, no fight, no injuries. I prefer to focus on the original cause and not the resulting effect. If that was my kid I'd use the opportunity to teach him a lesson about not being a ****. Why are you only complaining about the kid who got his ass kicked? What about all the other kids who were fighting? You are mad cause this doosh got hurt. That's his fault and no one elses.

That's asinine. Yes, the kid is a jerk, but attacking someone in that fashion is never warranted. The punishment he received was wayyyyy over the top. The fight was a result of his action, but also probably the result of a very frustrated team that was down big...still doesn't make it okay that he was beaten. There's a reason 16 year olds shouldn't fight...they're too hopped up on testosterone and adernaline to know when to stop.

 

[Forty_Sixand2]

When a skull cracks on the ice and a dude dies two hours later it will get banned. Oh wait that already happened but who cares about the OHL. Someone will have to die (and they will) before we get this stupid circus shit out of the beautiful game.