The Price is Right?

[Ryanballa]

Havnet been on here in awhile,But i am very excited to start fresh. I thought that our Reds could win Dusty a ring but it just wasnt in the cards. But i am very excited about our new manager Bryan Price. I have heard that the bench coach and hitting coach, Spier and Jacoby will be fired.

 

[JohnU]

Havnet been on here in awhile,But i am very excited to start fresh. I thought that our Reds could win Dusty a ring but it just wasnt in the cards. But i am very excited about our new manager Bryan Price. I have heard that the bench coach and hitting coach, Spier and Jacoby will be fired.

Let's hope it isn't in the Cards.
I can't stand Boston but another W.S. for the "best fans in baseball" would be real tough to swallow.

 

[Redsfan1507]

McCarver in a Cards Series is a real treat, too. I won't miss him after he retires.

It could be worse, could be a Yankee Series.

 

[HammerDown]

Seriously, how long are you guys going to stick with Brian Price?

 

[JohnU]

I suppose when they turn the firing process over to me, I will evaluate it.
On a scale of 1-to-5, Price is about a 2 in terms of talent, motivation and expertise.
The other parts of this equation are less measurable.

 

[Redsfan1507]

It's funny to look back a post this old. Gives some perspective on expectations v. Execution.

Price did a reversal on Chapman for some reason, maybe because Chapman said he changed his mind, and wants to close. Maybe like Phillips not wanting to hit 7th, or Mesoraco not wanting to go on the DL, or Hamilton not wanting to bunt, Bruce and Frazier not wanting to hit strikes, and Cingrani not wanting to pitch more than a mop up game.

This team runs more than Dusty would have. Billy Hamilton plays more. Phillips would be the cleanup hitter all year. Dusty would never curse at the media for 5 minutes- he never worked at anything that hard. Other than that, I don't see any difference in Price and Dusty.

 

[JohnU]

I think most of the old comments were spot on about people who actually pay attention to what the team has done since 2012. The notion that Price probably isn't better and probably isn't worse seem to stand out. I think we're where we expected to be after a year and a month.

 

[Redsfan1507]

I have as many criticisms of the GM, Walt Jocketty as the manager-Price. Not true when Dusty was here- I though Walt gave Dusty enough talent to produce more than Dusty did. I do believe Walt allowed Dusty to stray from the game plan too often, and waited too late to dump intended role players Dusty played too much. He should have overruled him on the Chapman decision, and honestly, shouldn't have re-signed Dusty to his last 2 year contract. He had plenty of cause not to, if cause is ever really needed. It's ancient history now, but the wasted opportunities on the field I blame more on managers than GM's. Managers always like to blame GM's, and to a lesser degree players( because their use and motivation are effected by managers), but I find Dusty defenseless there, and do believe that Price has fewer cards in his deck (roster), and is limited to the hand he can play. He may or may not be an intelligent baseball manager or motivator, or tactful communicator, but he sure isn't a fucking magician.

I thought the Reds should have been a post season team last year, but not without Votto, Bailey, Latos, Bruce and Phillips. They probably did as well as possible without those guys. This season however, I didnt expect to win more than a few games over .500 at best, with only 40% of a starting rotation, and no better bullpen, even with full return to the injured cast. Now Bailey is out for a year. I expect the Reds to do worse toward late summer, when they're forced to dump Cueto and Leake, and search for takers for partially eaten contracts on others for a real "rebuild" effort.

This kind of thing hasn't been on Walt's resume, so it wouldn't surprise me to see him retire.


I don't like throwing in the towel, and starting over, but it's more productive long term, IMO than blocking or waiving a minor leaguer for middle aged remedial guys like Marquis, Gregg and Schumaker. Even if they do have a good month, time isn't on their side.

If Chapman is going to stay a closer, a 70 win team doesn't need him. I'd gladly start a new team from the farm up with him in the rotation, and Votto in the lineup though. He's the next immediate decision after Cueto & Leake to make. If he's not in the Reds rotation, is trade him for real value THIS year, to avoid the firesale discount as a lame duck FA next season, like they're likely to get for Cueto and/or Leake this year.

They'll have to look at offers for Bruce, and will probably get some. Phillips, not so much without eating the rest of his contract. Mesoraco, Frazier, Cozart and Pena are the next class of arbitration prior to free agents they'll have to settle contracts on, budgeted with Votto, Bailey and Phillips prior boat anchors. Not all of these will stay long term, IMO. In a re-tool, I'd advise not renewing options on expensive post 35 year oldsters like Byrd, Marquis and Gregg, and would compromise with farmhands not fully ready and a couple of discount role players in their prime first.

I dont like reclamation projects- I'd rather suffer Billy Hamilton hitting .220 with the idea he will improve at 22-25, instead of thinking some .220 hitting Corey Patterson is going to figure it out at 35, or the next Ludwick or Byrd is going to have another career year at 38. Hamilton, Desclafani, Suarez, Iglasias, Lorenzen, Winkler, Barnhart, Wallach, etc. are going to be names we'll see more going forward- in addition to whatever youngsters the exiting contracts bring in return.

If you think Votto walks too much now, wait until those guys are hitting behind him. It may not take too long- a couple or three more years- or about the time Phillips' and Bruce's contracts are expired.

 

[GenJac]

Bryan Price is becoming an embarrassment.

 

[JohnU]

Reds are basically fucked because to admit Price is a bad hire is to admit that Dusty was a bad firing. Price hasn't had an original clue since the second day of the season. He's taken what is perceptively a team worth 85 wins and turned it into a scrub heap that might, if the breaks go their way, play marginally better than .450. I can see something closer to .420 before the fire sale is officially complete.
The notion that there are replacements to be found is absurd. Nobody is going to swap MLB talent for a rental pitcher like Cueto. Leake might draw a few folks around the water cooler but he's a big-park NL pitcher.
At the end of the day, Walt and his staff backed themselves into a corner by even suggesting Marquis, Gregg and Maholm should be invited to camp. The rest of the staff knew what these turkeys had and they probably were pissed about it.
Cueto isn't going to miss a turn because he's hurt.

 

[eburg5000]

I think us reds fans are in for some hard times. They will be e referring to the Reds like they did the Astros, Cubs , and as much as I hate to make this comparison, my beloved Cleveland browns, at least as far as bad management

 

[JohnU]

Price is the problem but he's only the front office part of the problem.

 

[Redsfan1507]

They probably would have been just as bad now, but they goofed by not winning more in the Dusty Days.

IMO, it was a bad decision hanging with a guy with zero urgency that long. It sends a too relaxed message tha underperforming is ok, that still lingers on the team. They wasted enough money to sign Cueto on players like Madson, Marshall, Ludwick, Marquis. They paid too much in trade for Latos.

Reds fans might have been ok with this team if the Reds had lost a NLCS, and lost a World SERIES, I 2 of those years ? I don't really think so. Fans want to win-every year.