The one thing the saints could do next year that would truly p**** me off

[Brees#1]

Is if any improvement on offense next year is from turnovers and Brees having short fields(if the defense improves with their new scheme). I mean Brees had so many crappy first halfs last year that the finger pointing has gone to the defense among saints fans. The offense better be improved next year and not by means of the damn defense. Having a bad defense does not mean you can't go down the field at least two times in the first half. I got so sick of hearing we have a top five offense over and over again. Nevermind so many offenses last year that were usually good sucked. I want the offense improved or I may be sour over any other kind of winning season.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

The Saints definitely have a top 5 offense and should compete for the division.

 

[HammerDown]

Drew Brees is awful.

 

[handicappers]

Saints are hot garbage and their city is scummy. Yuck.

 

[tducey]

Yeah, got to think nowhere for the Saints to go now but down. Brees' best days are behind him.

 

[Thruthefog]

Is defense a bad word in New Orleans?

 

[Judge Fudge]

Is defense a bad word in New Orleans?

But...........

The offense

 

[SonnyCID]

I want the offense improved or I may be sour over any other kind of winning season.

So, if the Saints win because of an improved defense you'd be upset by it?

Stick to fantasy.

 

[RegentDenali]

Rehire Rob Ryan as the DC?

 

[Rockinkuwait]

Is if any improvement on offense next year is from turnovers and Brees having short fields(if the defense improves with their new scheme). I mean Brees had so many crappy first halfs last year that the finger pointing has gone to the defense among saints fans. The offense better be improved next year and not by means of the damn defense. Having a bad defense does not mean you can't go down the field at least two times in the first half. I got so sick of hearing we have a top five offense over and over again. Nevermind so many offenses last year that were usually good sucked. I want the offense improved or I may be sour over any other kind of winning season.

Not really... The defense deserves the finger pointed right at them. They were top 10 in average starting position on defense, so the offense and special teams did a good job giving them good starting field position by not turning over the ball or killing drives.

The reason they were the worst D is because they were the worst at stopping teams from moving the football (32nd in yards allowed per drive), and the worst in scoring (32nd in points allowed per drive).




And when it comes to a crappy first half by the Saints last year....

Saints in the 1st half
#1 in NFL in scoring in 1st quarter (no team opened up games better)
Drew Brees, highest rated QB in the NFL in the first half of games (18 TD's 1 INT).
Drew Brees, 3rd most passing TD's in first half (1 behind Newton/Brady).
Saints offense 2nd best turnover rate in the first half
Saints offense, 3rd most TD's in the first half.
Saints offense 4th most 1st downs in the first half.



Saints defense Allowed a league high 26 TD's in the first half
Saints defense allowed and NFL worst TD's on 30% of their drives in the first half
Saints D gave up an NFL worst 39 yards per drive in the first half
Saints defense NFL worst at stopping 1st down conversions
Saints defense gave up a league high 6.6 yards per play in the first half (worst by a team in over 60 years)
Saints defense Given the 8th best average starting field position.


You want the offense to look better. Quit giving them bottom 10 field position with the D letting everyone march down the field on them and get some more 3 and outs. Give them fewer points allowed and let the offense become more balanced rather than have to shoot out every game.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

So, the worst DVOA defense of all time doesn't deserve the lion's share of the blame?

 

[Brees#1]

The Saints definitely have a top 5 offense and should compete for the division.

Hmm that's interesting coming from you. Is this another of your prophetic predictions? They have a top five offense because of yards but yards is not enough. Say what you will but saints were a offensive TD away from winning against Carolina, TB, Tennessee, Carolina again, and Detroit. The offense had abysmal first half productions against Detroit, Carolina, Philadelphia, Houston, Arizona(will not include TB because he was hurt or Washington since that was a throwaway game). And found themselves offenseless against Tennessee and Indianapolis in the second half. The line has had problems and the receiving core has been inexperienced. But the biggest blame for all the offense's lack of points is the defense being bad. I am not on the same page with a lot of saints fans yes we all want the defense to improve but to say that the offense has to be dependent on that is a joke. I don't think the raiders will have a good offensive game week one, but I will be keeping my eye on what the offense does in that game and if Brees particularly doesn't do anything until the fourth quarter.


Oh and I never said the defense was going to improve. I said IF. If it does not and offense does what it did last year, it will be another long season. If it does improve and offense is the same it could get them to playoffs before losing to relentless QBs in Rodgers and Wilson. That will still be a challenge with improved offense but there will be shootouts in that scenario.

 

[Brees#1]

So, the worst DVOA defense of all time doesn't deserve the lion's share of the blame?

Look at the games where the defense forced five stops against Arizona in six possessions(or 4 in 5) and the offense responded with nothing to take the lead. Or the fact the saints got back to back three and outs on opening possessions against the lions only to not do squat on offense. They could not even punch the ball in at the end of the first half! And Carolina, they got up 14-0, mainly due to the defense. Carolina eventually scored and almost tied before the returned XP. And we all know what happened in the second half(Brees wakes up but not until after his defense broke down).

Like I said a offense that has been the way it's been is not going to cut it against Wilson and Rodgers in January even with a good defense.

 

[Scooby-Doo]

Saints are hot garbage and their city is scummy. Yuck.

You have to be old enough to drink to enjoy New Orleans. Give it a few years, you'll see.

 

[Scooby-Doo]

Not really... The defense deserves the finger pointed right at them. They were top 10 in average starting position on defense, so the offense and special teams did a good job giving them good starting field position by not turning over the ball or killing drives.

The reason they were the worst D is because they were the worst at stopping teams from moving the football (32nd in yards allowed per drive), and the worst in scoring (32nd in points allowed per drive).




And when it comes to a crappy first half by the Saints last year....

Saints in the 1st half
#1 in NFL in scoring in 1st quarter (no team opened up games better)
Drew Brees, highest rated QB in the NFL in the first half of games (18 TD's 1 INT).
Drew Brees, 3rd most passing TD's in first half (1 behind Newton/Brady).
Saints offense 2nd best turnover rate in the first half
Saints offense, 3rd most TD's in the first half.
Saints offense 4th most 1st downs in the first half.



Saints defense Allowed a league high 26 TD's in the first half
Saints defense allowed and NFL worst TD's on 30% of their drives in the first half
Saints D gave up an NFL worst 39 yards per drive in the first half
Saints defense NFL worst at stopping 1st down conversions
Saints defense gave up a league high 6.6 yards per play in the first half (worst by a team in over 60 years)
Saints defense Given the 8th best average starting field position.


You want the offense to look better. Quit giving them bottom 10 field position with the D letting everyone march down the field on them and get some more 3 and outs. Give them fewer points allowed and let the offense become more balanced rather than have to shoot out every game.

Talk about completely destroying the OP's entire point. Nice work.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Look at the games where the defense forced five stops against Arizona in six possessions(or 4 in 5) and the offense responded with nothing to take the lead. Or the fact the saints got back to back three and outs on opening possessions against the lions only to not do squat on offense.

This is the same fallacy Giants fans on here were making with the 4th quarter gaffes. Real truth is they were fortunate to be in many of those games to begin with. Any bum defense can stop the Panthers for a quarter, maybe two. Football is weird like that sometimes. The Saints were a Drew Brees led offense away from a top 3-5 pick. While you can point things out that can be improved, sure, it's a bit nutty to look at the top 10 or 5 offense as the side of the ball that needs help. Having Brees is pointless if the defense makes the average QB into Tom Brady. Bottom line is you have this backwards.

I repeat: The 2015 defense was the worst DVOA defense of all time. All. Time. They were an embarrassment, and that's not hyperbole.

And Carolina, they got up 14-0, mainly due to the defense. Carolina eventually scored and almost tied before the returned XP. And we all know what happened in the second half(Brees wakes up but not until after his defense broke down).

Oh please- Drew Brees shouldn't have to put up Sid Luckman or Otto Graham type silly numbers to beat any team. This is not arena football.

Like I said a offense that has been the way it's been is not going to cut it against Wilson and Rodgers in January even with a good defense.

A legitimate point to wonder. Snead, and old Colston, and Fleener are not exactly my favorite options to have outside of Cooks.

 

[Rockinkuwait]

Hmm that's interesting coming from you. Is this another of your prophetic predictions? They have a top five offense because of yards but yards is not enough.

Actually they have a top 5 offense even with a bottom 5 run game. PERIOD. It's why only NE has scored more TD's in the past two years than the Saints.

Situations matter and that D gives that offense the worst situation any D ever has given an offense before. Look at Brees for example. People say "oh he isn't quite as good anymore" and bullshit. Hell no. He's still excellent. He's still great with the lead or tied in games, great running the 2 min drill, great on 3rd down. Even great from behind. But his D puts him in those worse positions more.

Look at him when playing from behind. Great play, there with Brady, Rodgers, Big ben (QB rating higher than all of them). But that's still where all QB's play their worst. Where pass rushers just pin their ears back and rush the QB, where you see a bad D to pass on and don't check to a run.



Playing from behind

Brees past 2 years? 662 times throwing there
Brady, 322
Ben 416
Rodgers 426

What about throwing with the lead? Hey where we can use play action as a weapon. Where we can check to runs in poor passing situations? Where QB rating jumps a full 10 points in the NFL on average... Where Brees is ahead of all but Rodgers in QB rating (barely)

Brees 387 attempts
Brady 646
Ben 450
Rodgers 450


So that's the situation the D hands Brees. A situation where he's throwing in the worst conditions twice as much as Brady, and in the best conditions half as much.





And you are giving him those throws further from the opponents red zone. Saints offense average starting field position past two years is 30th and 23rd. Pats is 2nd and 4th. It's obvious you need to go further to put up points if you are further away from the end zone.

How do you get there? Your D keeps giving up TD's (start at the 20 after a touchback), or 30-40 yards and then a punt trying to pin you in the 20 (losing the field position your offense got).

 

[Rockinkuwait]

And it sucks because I think their Brees window has closed. They are truly having to hold out hope that D comes around to somewhere close to average, at which point they are a 10-13 win team.

Sure dumping Brees in the off-season and moving on and hoping for something like Indy got with letting Peyton go sounds nice... But dumping Brees and realizing the next 10+ years are like the Rams post-Warner years... ugggh..

It's a tough call. And I guess myself I keep Brees. He's a huge part of the reason the Saints aren't the Aints anymore. And why they are still a team that can beat anyone... even with a record setting bad defense. He keeps them fun to watch for me.

 

[handicappers]

You have to be old enough to drink to enjoy New Orleans. Give it a few years, you'll see.

Wrong again. Went there in 1990....it was gross. Went fishing in Venice in 95, 2001, 2005 and 2011......gross, gross, yucky, disgusting.....every time.

Go there sometime, you'll see.

 

[Scooby-Doo]

Wrong again. Went there in 1990....it was gross. Went fishing in Venice in 95, 2001, 2005 and 2011......gross, gross, yucky, disgusting.....every time.

Go there sometime, you'll see.

So dad and gramps take you fishing over the years and you form an opinion for life? Wait until you're older. In time you will learn to appreciate a cultured city like New Orleans.