The Nuraman Thread

[nuraman00]

I'm with you guys..I don't see him as a top 10 player, even in his best year with Utah. 15 to 20 is where I slot him.

Crazy how far Carlos has fallen outside the Jazz system as well. He went from número UNO to third string on the banjo.

So without any semblance of a star, what are the odds of us going deep into the playoffs? Can Favors or Burks become a top 20 difference maker? Hayward?

I think Boozer still played pretty well. He still shot well, and rebounded well per 36 minutes.

18 points, 10 rebounds, 2.3 assists on .532 per 36 minutes.

He averaged 29.5 minutes a game.

It's just that Thibbadeau played Gibson and Asik minutes too. Sometimes to the detriment, IMO, as I think they had some bad offensive lineups.

When watching the Bulls lose in the 2011 playoffs, they played Kurt Thomas a lot in the 4th, and even benched both Noah and Boozer. The Bulls struggled to score.


Boozer's minutes went down in Chicago because of the way Thibbadeau wanted to play his frontcourt. But that doesn't mean he played his frontcourt to the best possible lineup. During those 29.5 minutes, he still averaged 15 points and 8.5 rebounds. He just didn't have the higher totals because he didn't play more minutes.

Now, I'm not saying he played as well as his all-star self, but it wasn't that far off, as his per-36 minute rates showed.

 

[nuraman00]

Favors can be top 20 type player.

Hayward can be pretty good for his position, I just don't see SFs as that great overall. It's not as deep as the other positions.

Hayward doesn't rebound like he did in college. That's holding him back some.

No idea about Burks yet.

 

[nuraman00]

I think Deron is Top Twenty, maybe top ten, but based on last year's production (which isn't everything), I would keep him out of the Top Ten. He's good enough not to fall out of the top 20, perhaps top 15. I am biased though because I liked Stockton's assists more than Williams points.

Going to a bad team will do this to you because you are forced to shoot, even when it's ill-advised, but he has to get better for them to have a chance. I bet he will. I guess the only significant decrease was in FG% and assists last year. He's never been that great in FG%.

He is shooting 39.8% from the field, averages 19.9 points (less than in Utah), 9.5 assists (8.7 last year), and the same in steals as he was here. I expect 45%, 21.0, and 9.5 for 2012-13. The better shooting percentage will increase the points on fewer shots so that he can get more assists. The team around him is better.

Deron is good if you look at a certain limited set of skills - assists and ability to shoot from anywhere on the floor.

If you look at defense, he's no Stockton, Payton, Kidd, guys that made the All-Defensive team every year. Stockton was a great defender. He was dirty too, but I liked that. Deron is a below average defender.

Deron's peers such as Westbrook, Rondo are good defenders. Teague helped Atlanta's defense a lot last season, compared to previous seasons when they had Bibby.

Billups was a good defender, making the All Defensive team a few years. I still liked his defense last year. Billups was good at chasing guys over screens, he didn't have to go under.

Hinrich was a good defender for several years. Baron Davis, when he played for the Hornets, was a pretty good defender.

Chris Paul is better at defense than I thought. I used to think he got a lot of steals but wasn't as good as his reputation suggested. But watching him more often during a season than in previous seasons, I came to appreciate his tenacity and commitment to defense.

Ty Lawson at least gets steals. I'm not sure what to think of his defense yet. But he's also still fairly young.

Rubio was good at defense.

Felton, while he had a poor offensive season, he was an ok defender last year. That got overlooked.

Even Steve Nash, I've seen several stats that show he holds his opponents to an opponents PER below their season average. In his case, I think his constant movement tires his opponent out. So, his offense is his defense. But that's still something.

Deron's style to lull his opponents to sleep doesn't have the same impact.

Rebounding - Deron is a below average rebounding PG. Definitely no Kidd or Rondo or Westbrook. Lowry, Andre Miller, Chris Paul, and Baron Davis were other standout rebounders.

Williams ranked 23rd out of 45:

Player Season Finder | Basketball-Reference.com

Turnovers - He doesn't protect the ball well. He ranked 47 out of 54, with a turnover % of 16.9:

Player Season Finder | Basketball-Reference.com

Payton, Billups, Chris Paul, and Bibby are some of the best I've seen at not turning it over. Yes, maybe with Bibby it's because he's more likely to shoot, but in this case, that's the point. He gets his team a field goal attempt, rather than turn it over. Your team can't shoot if someone turns it over a lot.

Billups had 9 turnovers total during the 7 games in the 2005 NBA Finals. That's one of the most remarkable stats I've seen in terms of protecting the ball. I can also search through plenty of his playoffs games, and about 1/2 of them are with 1 turnover or less while having played 25 minutes.


Getting to the foul line: Deron ranks well here per 36 minutes, ranking 11/54:

Player Season Finder | Basketball-Reference.com

But I don't remember these games where he gets a lot of attempts, say 10. He's not like Tony Parker, for example. I mention free throw attempts as a category, not for the scoring, but for the ability to put the defense on their heels, and make them have to play looser defense. If they're in foul trouble, then they'll be even easier to attack.

And getting in the bonus early helps everyone on your team, as they can get some easier points at the foul line.

Deron actually ranked well here too, ranking 7th with 59 games of 10+ free throws since 2006-2007. I know this query included some SGs, I couldn't avoid it.

Player Game Finder | Basketball-Reference.com


I guess I'm not noticing him getting to the foul line as often as he does.


But the other areas that I mentioned, defense rebounding, and turnovers, are areas where he ranks poorly in. And he doesn't shoot as well as I'd like.

He's not as well rounded of a player, just very good in assists and being able to shoot from anywhere on the floor.

Stockton, Nash, Price, Rondo are about as good or better at both assists and shooting FG%. (In Rondo's case, it's his shot selection rather than actual shooting ability).

Tony Parker isn't as good at assists, but when I watch him play, he runs the system that Pop wants. They move the ball a lot, and he's always had to share ball handling duties with Ginobili, Barry, or George Hill. Plus, Tony Parker is usually top 5 in points in the paint. No, not just against guards, but against the entire league. When you're getting that many points close to the rim, and you can make them, then you have to shoot. It would be worse for the team for Parker to get that close to the rim, and pass to someone for a longer distance shot. The point of an offense is to get a close shot, and Parker shoots a little bit more because he can get good close shots and make them at a high percentage.

The Spurs, as well as the Jazz, have usually had good shooting and good passing team level stats, so Parker shouldn't be penalized for not having some of the individual assist stats, if his team's offense is always near the top in terms of efficiency.

Plus I think Parker has just had more memorable games in the playoffs.

His style might not be Nash or Stockton, but he does what he does best as well as what Pop wants him to do. It's been years since Pop has had to yell at him for not running the offense right.

 

[nuraman00]

NBA Basketball Power Rankings - National Basketball Association - ESPN

ESPN Stats & Info, dispatching the sort of nugget that doesn't reach us every day, reports that the Jazz are 5-17 in their last 22 games played in the Eastern or Central time zones dating to last season. We think this is related news: Five of Utah's next eight games meet that description.

 

[MHSL82]

Utah Jazz vs. Washington Wizards - Box Score - November 17, 2012 - ESPN

This game got pretty close to our parameters for everyone shooting 50% or less from the field - for both teams. I have to admit I haven't done much boxscore hopping this year, so this might be pretty common, but other than two players, both teams were shooting pretty lousy. One was 2-3, one was 3-5, one was 3-6, and the last was 10-19.

 

[nuraman00]

Utah Jazz vs. Washington Wizards - Box Score - November 17, 2012 - ESPN

This game got pretty close to our parameters for everyone shooting 50% or less from the field - for both teams. I have to admit I haven't done much boxscore hopping this year, so this might be pretty common, but other than two players, both teams were shooting pretty lousy. One was 2-3, one was 3-5, one was 3-6, and the last was 10-19.

I think this is more common.

Here's 50% or less by everyone:

Atlanta Hawks at Detroit Pistons Box Score, April 9, 2001 | Basketball-Reference.com

Washington Wizards at Chicago Bulls Box Score, November 7, 2000 | Basketball-Reference.com

Chicago Bulls at Los Angeles Clippers Box Score, January 29, 2003 | Basketball-Reference.com

Miami Heat at Cleveland Cavaliers Box Score, December 23, 2002 | Basketball-Reference.com

Atlanta Hawks at Orlando Magic Box Score, March 1, 1999 | Basketball-Reference.com

New York Knicks at Orlando Magic Box Score, February 14, 1993 | Basketball-Reference.com

NOTE: In this brief look-up today, I actually haven't found a game in which EVERYONE shoots below 50%, as opposed to less than or equal to 50%. Seems like someone seems to go 2-4 or 4-8 or 1-2.

I'm not going to make it a point to look for a game in which everyone shoots less than 50% though, that's not as exciting IMO. Less than or equal to 50% is close enough.

 

[nuraman00]

It seems harder to find a game in which everyone shoots above 50%. In fact, I haven't even been able to scroll past the road team, when looking it up today. Someone on the road team is always shooting 42% or something.

 

[nuraman00]

Hmm, I don't have permission to view your profile. You must have TOP SECRET FBI information in there.

I wonder when I can gradate to Special Agent nuraman00 so I can view others' profiles.

 

[nuraman00]

Season Paint Mid-range 3-pointers
2007-08 44.9 pct 32.9 pct 22.2 pct
2008-09 45.5 pct 32.1 pct 22.4 pct
2009-10 46.4 pct 31.4 pct 22.2 pct
2010-11 46.8 pct 31.0 pct 22.2 pct
2011-12 47.2 pct 30.3 pct 22.6 pct

 

[nuraman00]

Jazz defense.

They are 30th in opponents points in the paint per game:



NBA Stats - NBA Team Opponent Points in Paint per Game on TeamRankings.com



And 26th in opponent's floor %:



NBA Stats - NBA Team Opponent Floor % on TeamRankings.com



And are 24th in DRTG.

 

[nuraman00]

Well I sent Bemular a PM, asking him to help me paste tables.

Haven't heard back yet.

 

[nuraman00]

 

[nuraman00]

 

[nuraman00]

 

[nuraman00]

Well I sent Bemular a PM, asking him to help me paste tables.

Haven't heard back yet.

He explained how. It involved pasting the initial table into Excel, then copying that table and pasting it in another region of Excel but this time as an image, then taking that image and pasting it into word, then saving it as an image, then using a tool such as Photo Bucket (I used Tiny Pic) to upload that image.

 

[nuraman00]

Daily Dime - ESPN


Toronto Raptors

80
Final
Recap | Box score
100
S.A. Spurs

MVP: No one really stood out in this game, but Tony Parker's 13 points and seven rebounds were big. His ability to push the pace in the second half really helped open up the Spurs offense and put some separation between them and Toronto.

X factor: The moments have been few and far between thus far this season, but against the Raptors Manu Ginobili looked a lot more like the Ginobili that was one of the more unpredictable players in the NBA. He produced 14 points and five rebounds, and his +23 was the best on the Spurs.

That was ... a little strange: In one of the weirder box score quirks you'll see, none of the Raptors starters cracked double figures in points, but four bench players had at least 10 points.

 

[MHSL82]

Daily Dime - ESPN


Toronto Raptors

80
Final
Recap | Box score
100
S.A. Spurs

MVP: No one really stood out in this game, but Tony Parker's 13 points and seven rebounds were big. His ability to push the pace in the second half really helped open up the Spurs offense and put some separation between them and Toronto.

X factor: The moments have been few and far between thus far this season, but against the Raptors Manu Ginobili looked a lot more like the Ginobili that was one of the more unpredictable players in the NBA. He produced 14 points and five rebounds, and his +23 was the best on the Spurs.

That was ... a little strange: In one of the weirder box score quirks you'll see, none of the Raptors starters cracked double figures in points, but four bench players had at least 10 points.

The problems of skimming before I come back to read the whole thing... I read the bold and thought, "holy Batman, Ginobili's a Raptor, now?" Then, I re-read it as I always do, and saw what it really said.

 

[nuraman00]

I thought the part about the Raptors bench players scoring 10+ while no starter did was interesting. That part was why I posted this.

 

[MHSL82]

I thought the part about the Raptors bench players scoring 10+ while no starter did was interesting. That part was why I posted this.

Yes, I saw that and was going to see if I could find any game where all players were <10 or what the most >10 players were, but I don't know how to look that up.

I saw how in the GS game (?), the bench players were good in the +/1 but the starters bad. I might be confusing the games, though, or looking at the Rockets game last night.

Your stat was interesting.

 

[nuraman00]

Daily Dime - ESPN

9. Stat Check
By Elias Sports Bureau

lastname
Ibaka

Kevin Durant, Serge Ibaka and Russell Westbrook dominated their areas of expertise in the box score of the Oklahoma City Thunder's 111-105 overtime victory over the Dallas Mavericks. Durant had 40 points, Ibaka collected 17 rebounds and Westbrook contributed 10 assists; no teammate had more than half as many points, rebounds or assists, respectively.

It marked only the second game in NBA history -- and the first resulting in a victory -- in which three different players reached those statistical levels -- that is, one scored 40-or-more points, a second had 17-or-more rebounds, and a third had 10-or-more assists -- while no teammate contributed more than half as many points, rebounds or assists. On Dec. 4, 2004, the New York Knicks, then coached by Lenny Wilkens, dropped a 107-101 decision to the Charlotte Bobcats (then a first-year expansion team); Jamal Crawford scored 41 points, Nazr Mohammed had 17 rebounds and Stephon Marbury had 11 assists, but no other Knicks player had half as many in any of those categories.