So The Blame Game Begins...M's Fire

[NWinAZ]

Mariners part with coaches Bogar, Candaele

 

[seahawksfan234]

Firing a couple of flight attendants isn't going to accomplish much when Jerry Dipoto and Scott Servais are your pilots.

 

[wazzu31]

Blaming a bench coach and base coach? Sure, that makes sense when at @seahawksfan234 pointed out, Servais made moves that costed games and essentially every move Jerry made backfired. Segura and Haniger was a fine trade in theory but he traded Walker and Marte for essentially guys who put up a really 1/3 of the year of production combined. Too early to be remotely negative on that deal but this year they needed a starting pitcher much more than an all star caliber SS and an injury prone outfielder who has a habit of making bonehead plays.

 

[seahawksfan234]

Blaming a bench coach and base coach? Sure, that makes sense when at @seahawksfan234 pointed out, Servais made moves that costed games and essentially every move Jerry made backfired. Segura and Haniger was a fine trade in theory but he traded Walker and Marte for essentially guys who put up a really 1/3 of the year of production combined. Too early to be remotely negative on that deal but this year they needed a starting pitcher much more than an all star caliber SS and an injury prone outfielder who has a habit of making bonehead plays.

I'm still a big fan of the Segura/Haniger acquisition and think it's one of the best trades the Mariners have made the past 10 years or so - not that the bar is set very high there. Segura and Haniger right now are arguably our two best players on the team 27 or younger.

Haniger battled a series of somewhat unlikely injuries and put up overall very good numbers at the plate and using dWAR as an indication, played a solid outfield. He has yet to hit 162 career games but in his first 130, he has hit 27 doubles, 21 HRs with a .270/.352/.491 line which is a promising start. Played a full season in 2016 and 104 games between A+ and AA in 2015. I'd expect he's only going to continue to improve, but at this point he looks like an above average corner outfielder at the plate and defensively.

Also I just really like Segura a lot. We'd be stuck with a mediocre SS with Marte if we didn't make the move, and Segura I believe is one of the more underrated SSs in baseball. He also played hurt a bunch and still put up pretty good numbers overall. Segura is a five tool player I'd like to see the Mariners build around. Both long-term and in 2017 the Mariners were much better off with Segura and Haniger than Walker and Marte, even as badly as we need pitching.

 

[mcnabb7542]

Yep let's get rid of the guy that should be the actual manager of this club!


I swear to god if Scotty boy isn't under Jerry's desk giving him hummers I just don't get it!

 

[wazzu31]

I'm not saying it's a negative trade, but going off this year, you don't think Walker and Marte would've made the team at least the or slightly better. Haniger was on the DL for WAY too much of a portion, Segura had hit stint, played all worldly then cooled off. I'm not trying to be negative as that is a move they need getting younger guys to build around but it was a move that didn't get them in the playoffs.

Not saying Haniger is a bad fielder or even average but when he makes bad plays, got they are inexcusable. It may be he is a CF at heart and takes awhile getting use to a COF spot. Segura is still a 2B not a SS IMO. Guess we can agree to disagree that he was even a slight upgrade defensively.

Point I was making was every move he made backfired, except that one trade and why I was trying to say except that but it came off wrong. But even that deal didn't really move the needle towards the playoffs.

 

[cezero]

"But it's a business, and we've got to get better."

.....by firing a bench coach and base coach. sure servais, that'll get us at least 5 more wins!

 

[cezero]

i was fine with getting rid of marte and walker. still am. both were sent down, and neither came back better.

i didn't hate many of dipoto's off season moves. it's what he did during the season that got me discouraged. it's just more of the same in terms of ownership and GM. i feel like 2 seasons is enough to start drawing some conclusions. it's just so damn pathetic.

 

[PolarVortex]

Mariners part with coaches Bogar, Candaele

We know how this goes. Servais seat isn't hot yet (probably luke warm), but his back is a lot closer to the wall than it was two years ago. They can't really fire another round of coaches if things don't work out again next year. They have up the ante. It isn't a good time to be Scott Servais. I don't think he has a prayer. He'll be looking for work a year from now.

 

[unlvmariners]

Outside of Edgar, these 2 where the guys I liked the best... So this makes a lot of sense.

Servais should be the one walking the plank.

 

[wazzu31]

Does anyone know if Edgar even has ambition to be a big league manager? I thought Dan Wilson did but didn't he give up on managing to become the rotating catching coach or whatever it's officially called?

 

[PolarVortex]

Outside of Edgar, these 2 where the guys I liked the best... So this makes a lot of sense.

Servais should be the one walking the plank.

I'm not going to endorse Servais as a great or even good manager, but I will say this. Managing this team this year was no cupcake. I doubt if Terry Francona or Joe Maddon (or pick your choice of who you think a great current manager is) would have done much better.

This team just never can fire on all cylinders. In 2014 they had a great, great bullpen, but couldn't hit for shit. In 2016 they had a really good offense, but the bullpen sucked balls and King Felix died. It's always something with this team and that something typically is not the manager's fault.

 

[PolarVortex]

Does anyone know if Edgar even has ambition to be a big league manager? I thought Dan Wilson did but didn't he give up on managing to become the rotating catching coach or whatever it's officially called?

We don't want Edgar to manage. If he manages, then ultimately he will have to get fired and we don't want him to get fired. Same thing with Dan Wilson, who I think has the knowledge and guts to be a solid manager.

Ideally:
Dan Wilson is the manager
Jamie Moyer is the pitching coach
Edgar is the hitting coach
Willie Bloomquist is the bench coach
Norm Charlton is the bullpen coach
Joey Cora is the third base coach
Bone is the first base coach

 

[Msfann]

We don't want Edgar to manage. If he manages, then ultimately he will have to get fired and we don't want him to get fired. Same thing with Dan Wilson, who I think has the knowledge and guts to be a solid manager.

Ideally:
Dan Wilson is the manager
Jamie Moyer is the pitching coach
Edgar is the hitting coach
Willie Bloomquist is the bench coach
Norm Charlton is the bullpen coach
Joey Cora is the third base coach
Bone is the first base coach

I've thought that for years about Edgar, it would have been a HUGE PR problem if they ever had to fire the guy while still trying to push for him to get into the HOF. They got lucky that he did have success as a hitting coach.

That lineup of coaches would be awesome if it worked, and could really backfire if it didn't.

 

[wazzu31]

I wasn't necessarily saying Edgar should manage I was just curious. Since it appears everyone will get fired before Servais takes any heat from Jerry. But this is why I couldn't be in management because I would throw my manager under the bus when he costs us a game.

 

[Podunkparte]

Ideally:
Dan Wilson is the manager
Jamie Moyer is the pitching coach
Edgar is the hitting coach
Willie Bloomquist is the bench coach
Norm Charlton is the bullpen coach
Joey Cora is the third base coach
Bone is the first base coach

Good God, no!

It's like you alone have been the marketing manager for the M's for the last 20 years.

The fact that you watched a guy pitch/hit/field well as a player doesn't mean they'll accomplish jack shit as the coach of that task.

 

[PolarVortex]

Good God, no!

It's like you alone have been the marketing manager for the M's for the last 20 years.

The fact that you watched a guy pitch/hit/field well as a player doesn't mean they'll accomplish jack shit as the coach of that task.

Has nothing to do with their ability as players. From watching them through the years,I know these guys have high baseball IQs as well as natural leadership ability and ability to command respect. Well, all of them except Buhner have high baseball IQs, but a high baseball IQ is not really a requirement for a first base coach.

If you don't think Moyer would make a good pitching coach then I guess you must not be talking about the same pitcher I am talking about. 260 wins with an 84 mph fastball? LOL. The dude took the artistry of pitching to a whole new level. He helped put the change-up on the baseball map.

My only concern with Wilson as manager is that he may not have the right temperament. But with instant replay, managers no longer need to be cut from the Earl Weaver/Billy Martin mold.

Charlton might not be the best choice for bullpen coach but he'd be good at it.

The Cora brothers know baseball. They have been in high demand for several years.

And as a multi-position, journeyman, role player, Bloomquist fits the mold of several managers in recent years.

 

[wazzu31]

Big question is who would be the GM? Not one that comes in with a philosophy and goes completely against it in 2 years.

Farm system = fail
More athletic = so far so good
Pitchers that control the strike zone = fail, those guys belong in WAS
Trades = incomplete, made a couple of nice ones but has made a few that make Bavasi and Jack look HOF worthy.