Should Cavs Trade Wiggins for Love?

[starbigd]

They wouldn't take anyone from the bench that was productive. It would probably go TT (starter), Wiggins (bench most likely), and Bennett (bench). Bennett is young and didn't do much, replace TT with Love, and you lose Wiggins who hasn't proved himself. They will probably add 2 1st rounders or something.

And they can go over cap to sign him.

Bennett and TT are $11 mil combined. Add Wiggins and they wouldn't be that much over anyway. (Probably another $5 mil.

You keep putting together these trades that NOBODY would want. There's no way in hell Minny is giving you Love for that package, it's total garbage. Flip Saunders would have to be crazy to make that deal.

 

[Davis_Mike]

You realize you can go over the cap to pay your own guys, right?

You do realize that by going over the cap you are spending 1.5-3x dollar for dollar on any amount over the cap. And then you are not eligible for Luxury Tax payment sharing. Adding Love & resigning him long term would likely put the team when fully constructed, $20+ mil over the tax threshold. For smaller & mid market team, that has a huge impact. We are talking about a $70+ mil negative swing in revenue. Sure Lebron will increase the Cavs revenue, but that is a lot of money to think about for a city like Cleveland.

That is why you don't see teams outside of large markets exceed the tax threshold, & when they do, it's only by a few mil.

What is ironic about these draconian penalties, is that Gilbert was one of the owners who lobbied heavily for them & now is going to be effected by them.

As for trading Wiggins, if your Cleveland, you do it in a heartbeat. Wigging being just 19, it's going to take at least 3 seasons before we start seeing him tap his true potential. Cleveland should be in "win now" mode seeing as they likely only have a 3-4 year window. Love instantly makes the Cavs a favorite to reach the finals, & do so consistently.

You might be trading away "future potential" but you're getting back a current Allstar top 10 talent, production machine. 25+ & 12+ every single night while being the main focus opposing defenses 82 games a season. The guy gets buckets & boards. Not many, if any, in the NBA can do it like Love can.

 

[Davis_Mike]

You keep putting together these trades that NOBODY would want. There's no way in hell Minny is giving you Love for that package, it's total garbage. Flip Saunders would have to be crazy to make that deal.

From what I've read & understand, Flip wants back NBA ready talent along with future assets. Meaning guys who can come & produce to help the team win now, not in the future.

In that context, Cleveland's offer pails in comparison to possible trades with GS & even Phx. Both those teams have NBA starting talent along with young guys & future assets they can send to Min. Cleveland's offer is just some guys who may turn out to be good or great in the future & some late round picks. The offers really aren't close.

And keep in mind, by the time these "may" reach their potential, they would probably be tired of losing & would be looking to move on to another team rather than resign in Min. That is something teams like Min always have to contend with. Why would they want to develop talent for 3-4 years only to see those guys leave when they start reaching their potential? That is the reason Flip is looking for guys who can help the team win now along with future assets.

That basically turns teams like Min into NBA farm teams.

 

[Kinzu]

People here keep assuming that these are deals that are attractive to Minny.......they're not.

Wiggins, Thompson, Waiters, and Bennet MIGHT get it done. Salaries DO have to match......and Minny is going to want more than two role players and a rookie.

So far none of the proposed trades have even been CLOSE to the realm of reality....which is why they were all rejected.

At this point, unless there is a major change, I think Love gets traded to GS.

Go look up what Chris Paul, Dwight Howard, and Carmelo Anthony traded for and then come back to us with this these guys are not good enough Kevin Love argument. Waiters, Thompson and some draft picks is better than the deals some big time starts have gone for in the past.

 

[Davis_Mike]

Go look up what Chris Paul, Dwight Howard, and Carmelo Anthony traded for and then come back to us with this these guys are not good enough Kevin Love argument. Waiters, Thompson and some draft picks is better than the deals some big time starts have gone for in the past.

The Melo trade was pretty even for both teams & dare I say Denver may have come out ahead. Since the trade, NY has 141 wins while Denver has 148 wins, with both teams having 3 playoff appearances & not really doing much.. Considering they play in the much tougher west, I would say Denver did fine in the trade. Wilson, Gallinari(Missed the season with an injury), & Mozgov are all good players. Plus they got McDermott(NY 1st 2014), 2 years Andre Miller(Felton trade to Por) & 4 2nd round picks in total after trades from the assets in the Melo deal.

Yeah, Denver did fine.

Gasol for Gasol was another trade of a superstar player that turned out well for both teams. Kevin Johson for Larry Nance worked out well for Pho who traded away Nance. Rasheed Wallace was basically traded for what turned out to be Josh Smith by Atl.

Star player trades do happen where the team trading the star does come out even are ahead. The Cleveland scenario does not fit into that category for Min unless Wiggins becomes a superstar. But at that point, he would likely be leaving Min as he enters his prime years.

 

[gordontrue]

You do realize that by going over the cap you are spending 1.5-3x dollar for dollar on any amount over the cap. And then you are not eligible for Luxury Tax payment sharing. Adding Love & resigning him long term would likely put the team when fully constructed, $20+ mil over the tax threshold. For smaller & mid market team, that has a huge impact. We are talking about a $70+ mil negative swing in revenue. Sure Lebron will increase the Cavs revenue, but that is a lot of money to think about for a city like Cleveland.

It wouldn't be that bad. If they trade for Love, they'll have to move enough salary to stay under the cap with his $15 mill. Next year his max would be around $20 million. That's just $5 million over the cap. If they keep Varejao, his $10 mill comes of the books (and they could probably keep him for around 5).

It really wouldn't be a huge amount over the cap.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

It wouldn't be that bad. If they trade for Love, they'll have to move enough salary to stay under the cap with his $15 mill. Next year his max would be around $20 million. That's just $5 million over the cap. If they keep Varejao, his $10 mill comes of the books (and they could probably keep him for around 5).

It really wouldn't be a huge amount over the cap.

I would think its safe to assume that Gilbert better not even lot luxury tax payments enter into his mind.
James just made him over 500M in a day.
I'm sure promises were made to James.
If Gilbert goes back on his word, James love for Ohio will be short lived.

 

[Shield-Thread Killa]

LOVE pre injury....yes

Now...nope not a good thing....

Wonder if BOOZO BUZZER finds himself on the CAVS ROSTER..

 

[starbigd]

Go look up what Chris Paul, Dwight Howard, and Carmelo Anthony traded for and then come back to us with this these guys are not good enough Kevin Love argument. Waiters, Thompson and some draft picks is better than the deals some big time starts have gone for in the past.

LOL.

Now look up every trade in history and show me the team that took back the LEAST talent on table out of multiple offers.......

Cleveland isn't offering the best package of players. The picks are nearly worthless.

The Cavs aren't making a compelling trade to entice Minny. Like I said, no GM in his right mind makes the trades you guys are suggesting here.

It's one thing to get less than what the player is worth.......its quite another to turn down better and get back virtually nothing of real use.

 

[gohusk]

They need someone that can pound inside. James and Irving can put up points so it isn't like they don't have people that can score. They'd be better off going after David Lee,

 

[OutlawImmortal]

For the people saying Kevin Love has a shitty team or is overrated, if the Twolves were in the East you guys wouldn't be talking bad about Love. The Twolves weren't that bad, the West made them look worse than they were.

 

[Kold]

I don't have an opinion either way yet as I like both players, but let me just say this....Wiggins is going to be a STAR. Kansas' team had alot of good players on it and it was more of a team ball type of thing. He's already showing flashes of his ability, but eventually he's going to be that guy that everyone thought he would be. Also, being under Lebron will only speed up that process. I'd understand if they traded for Love, but I also don't see a problem in sticking it out with Wiggins until he becomes THAT guy

 

[starbigd]

For the people saying Kevin Love has a shitty team or is overrated, if the Twolves were in the East you guys wouldn't be talking bad about Love. The Twolves weren't that bad, the West made them look worse than they were.

THIS

The Wolves BELIEVE they can win now. They believe they can make the playoffs. This is why a trade involving players they can put on the floor right now is more important to them. Barnes, Lee and Green are impact players right NOW. They'd also get picks for the future. It's just a better deal.

This is also why they are in no rush to move Love. They have time.......granted, not a TON of time, but time nonetheless.

 

[Win TWINS!!!]

As far as Love... the Cavs don't need him if they are thinking of their future. If Wiggins produces and develops as expected, with James as a mentor, all the Cavs need is a serviceable big man to fill the middle. A year or two of building and the Cavs will be a lot stronger and James will be the leader, albeit an aging one.

James has pretty much committed the rest of his career to the Cavs and the people of Cleveland and Ohio. Do the Cavs really want to sacrifice the player that can offer them a competitive future for an immediate return? Especially one that has no promise if it doesn't work in a year or two?

What's the rush? James can't go anywhere. If he's worth his salt, he'll put in the time turning Wiggins and the other young guys into a solid unit.

Not that I believe for one minute it will happen. But I've been wrong before!

What team that is that close, is thinking of their future??? You don't wait a year or two. You get it done now. Stuff happens that you can't plan or prepare for. The greater risk is in waiting.

 

[trojanfan12]

LOL.

Now look up every trade in history and show me the team that took back the LEAST talent on table out of multiple offers.......

Cleveland isn't offering the best package of players. The picks are nearly worthless.

The Cavs aren't making a compelling trade to entice Minny. Like I said, no GM in his right mind makes the trades you guys are suggesting here.

It's one thing to get less than what the player is worth.......its quite another to turn down better and get back virtually nothing of real use.

Exactly. In the CP3, Dwight, 'Melo and heck, go back to Shaq being traded by the Lakers, those were the best deals that those teams could get. Minny has at least 2 better offers from teams that Love has indicated he might be willing to re-sign with.

Unless Love wants to play with Lebron so badly that he refuses to re-sign with anyone but the Cavs, Minny would be incredibly stupid to take what the Cavs are offering over what GSW and the Suns are.

 

[Win TWINS!!!]

I just dont agree with trading him now. Love will still be available at the end of the season. And really at any point in this season. Wiggins stock could not plummet so far after only his rookie season, unless as i stated earlier, he has a atrocious season, which wont happen, hes really good. And hes playing with LBJ, it would only benefit his rook season IMO.

Weren't they saying that about Aldridge in recent history, too?

 

[Win TWINS!!!]

LOVE pre injury....yes

Now...nope not a good thing....

Wonder if BOOZO BUZZER finds himself on the CAVS ROSTER..

Huh?

 

[Win TWINS!!!]

LOL.

Now look up every trade in history and show me the team that took back the LEAST talent on table out of multiple offers.......

Cleveland isn't offering the best package of players. The picks are nearly worthless.

The Cavs aren't making a compelling trade to entice Minny. Like I said, no GM in his right mind makes the trades you guys are suggesting here.

It's one thing to get less than what the player is worth.......its quite another to turn down better and get back virtually nothing of real use.

The one thing CLE does have, is it is in the East.


But I don't think that Love will be moved before the start of the season, regardless. I also wouldn't be surprised if he is there past the trade deadline as well.

 

[Shanemansj13]

You keep putting together these trades that NOBODY would want. There's no way in hell Minny is giving you Love for that package, it's total garbage. Flip Saunders would have to be crazy to make that deal.

Do you know what GS offered, Lee and Barnes and a future pick. That is shit as well.

One team will have to give Klay or Wiggins to get Love, there is just no way around it IMO

 

[Shanemansj13]

You do realize that by going over the cap you are spending 1.5-3x dollar for dollar on any amount over the cap. And then you are not eligible for Luxury Tax payment sharing. Adding Love & resigning him long term would likely put the team when fully constructed, $20+ mil over the tax threshold. For smaller & mid market team, that has a huge impact. We are talking about a $70+ mil negative swing in revenue. Sure Lebron will increase the Cavs revenue, but that is a lot of money to think about for a city like Cleveland.

That is why you don't see teams outside of large markets exceed the tax threshold, & when they do, it's only by a few mil.

What is ironic about these draconian penalties, is that Gilbert was one of the owners who lobbied heavily for them & now is going to be effected by them.

As for trading Wiggins, if your Cleveland, you do it in a heartbeat. Wigging being just 19, it's going to take at least 3 seasons before we start seeing him tap his true potential. Cleveland should be in "win now" mode seeing as they likely only have a 3-4 year window. Love instantly makes the Cavs a favorite to reach the finals, & do so consistently.

You might be trading away "future potential" but you're getting back a current Allstar top 10 talent, production machine. 25+ & 12+ every single night while being the main focus opposing defenses 82 games a season. The guy gets buckets & boards. Not many, if any, in the NBA can do it like Love can.

Very true. Wiggins could be a star, but Love isalready a star. I don't get the thought process by Cleveland unless they think he will bloom over one season. Which pretty much never happens.

I mean they grabbed Miller and maybe Ray, do they wanna wait 2 seasons or win now? I think if they get Ray, they make the trade. It only makes sense.