Russell Martin charged for robbery

[Arizona_Sting]

LOL Toronto. This will be up there for one of the worst contracts in baseball in a couple years. WTF were they thinking?

5 years/82 million for a 32 YEAR OLD catcher that has been an average to mediocre hitter for his entire career? Falling in love with numbers that he put up in a contract year is very foolish on their part. Is he good defensively? Yes. But they will regret this very, very much. Mark my words.

 

[Cyder]

If you give a gun to a monkey and he shoots someone you don't blame the monkey.

 

[Arizona_Sting]

If you give a gun to a monkey and he shoots someone you don't blame the monkey.

Are you calling Martin a monkey? YOU RACIST BASTARD...

Really though, I agree with your analogy. Martin is a smart man and he will be laughing his way to retirement when he's making 16.4 mil. in his age 37 season.

 

[HammerDown]

Going back home and getting paid to do it. Wow.

I love this guy but 5 yrs is insane.

 

[Cyder]

Are you calling Martin a monkey? YOU RACIST BASTARD...

Really though, I agree with your analogy. Martin is a smart man and he will be laughing his way to retirement when he's making 16.4 mil. in his age 37 season.

This is one of the dumbest contracts I've ever seen. I just don't get it. Was there really that kind of demand for Martin? I know catchers are in short supply but dear god.

 

[StanMarsh51]

LOL Toronto. This will be up there for one of the worst contracts in baseball in a couple years. WTF were they thinking?

5 years/82 million for a 32 YEAR OLD catcher that has been an average to mediocre hitter for his entire career? Falling in love with numbers that he put up in a contract year is very foolish on their part. Is he good defensively? Yes. But they will regret this very, very much. Mark my words.

By catcher standards, he's certainly not mediocre offensively.

 

[podsox]

he picked the right season to find his form offensively again

 

[Arizona_Sting]

By catcher standards, he's certainly not mediocre offensively.

Last year, sure. Trust me it's not worth it, we gave Miguel Montero a 5 year 60 mil. deal when he was entering his prime and now it looks bad even though he's been decent. Unless it's a Yadier or Buster type then I would just let them go and find a replacement because overpaying an aging catcher is one of the worst things you can do.

 

[podsox]

take a look at his previous 5 seasons before 2014. he is average at best for a catcher

 

[bksballer89]

He was awful in pinstripes. Could not believe my eyes when I saw that contract.

He's a good defensive catcher but I'm not so sure about his bat.

Ridiculous contract

 

[bksballer89]

His last 3 years batting before this year.

2013- .226 BA, 15 HR, 55 RBI, & OBP of .327
2012- .211 BA, 21 HR, 53 RBI, & OBP of . 311
2011- .237 BA, 18 HR, 65 RBI, & OBP of .324

This year he had the highest OBP of his career & 2nd highest BA.

Good luck Toronto.

You still won't make the playoffs.

 

[StanMarsh51]

Last year, sure. Trust me it's not worth it, we gave Miguel Montero a 5 year 60 mil. deal when he was entering his prime and now it looks bad even though he's been decent. Unless it's a Yadier or Buster type then I would just let them go and find a replacement because overpaying an aging catcher is one of the worst things you can do.

No, for his career...Martin's career OPS+ for his career is 103, while the average MLB catcher for his career span (2006-present) is under 94.

So Martin's career OPS+ is about 10% better than the average catcher...to put that into perspective, both Adam Laroche and Albert Pujols in 2014 had an OPS+ only 7% better than the average 1B, and I don't think anyone's saying those two had a mediocre/average seasons for their position.

So it wasn't a good deal due to his age, but to call Martin a mediocre hitting catcher is vastly underrating him.

 

[Arizona_Sting]

No, for his career...Martin's career OPS+ for his career is 103, while the average MLB catcher for his career span (2006-present) is under 94.

So Martin's career OPS+ is about 10% better than the average catcher...to put that into perspective, both Adam Laroche and Albert Pujols in 2014 had an OPS+ only 7% better than the average 1B, and I don't think anyone's saying those two had a mediocre/average seasons for their position.

So it wasn't a good deal due to his age, but to call Martin a mediocre hitting catcher is vastly underrating him.

When did I say that? I said as a hitter he's average to mediocre. Never added "as a catcher" to my post so don't put words in my mouth. Bottom line is he is not worth it. Horrible deal for Toronto.

 

[StanMarsh51]

When did I say that? I said as a hitter he's average to mediocre. Never added "as a catcher" to my post so don't put words in my mouth. Bottom line is he is not worth it. Horrible deal for Toronto.

Then your logic is awful....who really compares players to the average MLB player to determine worth? Positional scarcity is what creates a large chunk of a player's value.

If we're going by your logic, then was Jose Batista's 2014 regular season better/worth more than Buster Posey's because Batista hit better compared to the MLB average hitter than Posey? Of course not...position is a large reason why McCutchen won the MVP last year over Goldschmidt, because the writers realize that McCutchen's production at a premium defensive position is worth more than Goldschmidt's production at 1B, a position were it's virtually a prerequisite to hit well.

Position matters...if Russell were a 1B he's worth a fraction of what he is as a catcher. Same goes for guys who play premium positions like Cano, McCutchen, Posey, etc.

 

[Arizona_Sting]

Then your logic is awful....who really compares players to the average MLB player to determine worth? Positional scarcity is what creates a large chunk of a player's value.

If we're going by your logic, then was Jose Batista's 2014 regular season better/worth more than Buster Posey's because Batista hit better compared to the MLB average hitter than Posey? Of course not...position is a large reason why McCutchen won the MVP last year over Goldschmidt, because the writers realize that McCutchen's production at a premium defensive position is worth more than Goldschmidt's production at 1B, a position were it's virtually a prerequisite to hit well.

Position matters...if Russell were a 1B he's worth a fraction of what he is as a catcher. Same goes for guys who play premium positions like Cano, McCutchen, Posey, etc.

When did I say position didn't determine his worth? It seems like you just want to argue against something that really doesn't exist so you make things up and continue to put words in my mouth.

I know that's (him being a catcher) exactly why he's getting overpaid, anyways all I'm saying is he's never been an elite catcher and never will be and he's getting paid like one. AT AGE 32. Can we at least agree on it being a terrible contract?

 

[packerzrule]

Hearing those kind of numbers for Martin makes me cringe to think what Jonathon Lucroy's agent is going to be demanding.

 

[Arizona_Sting]

Hearing those kind of numbers for Martin makes me cringe to think what Jonathon Lucroy's agent is going to be demanding.

Yeah... that is not a good sign for the Brewers. He is twice the catcher Martin is and still in his prime. He could be getting a record setting deal for catchers if this crazy trend continues.

 

[Darkstone42]

Martin is an elite defensive catcher, near the top as a receiver, a blocker, and controlling the running game. Everything that makes a catcher inherently valuable, Martin does well. On his defense alone, he's worth probably about $10 million a year, even if he couldn't hit a lick.

But he's also about an average to slightly above average hitter relative to the entire league for his career, whose success is largely tied up in his eye and on-base skill, which makes him unlikely to decline appreciably offensively as he ages. No, he's not going to replicate last season. Yes, he is probably going to get on base 35% of the time moving forward and remain an average or better hitter.

But that makes him elite as a hitter at his position. And since you're not going to sign a first baseman by trade to play catcher, he'll get paid like an elite offensive catcher.

For probably the first three years of the deal, this contract will be pretty good for the Jays, honestly. It's the last two that are going to be painful. But, hey, they had a need at the position, and they went out aggressively and filled it. Good on them for it.

 

[fordman84]

I was hoping that Texas could sign him and avoid having to discuss a trade with ATL for gattis, but very glad we didn't get involved if that kind of money is thrown around.

Between this contract and Stantons, this is going to be a year that I hope Texas sits out of FA bidding. There are going to be a lot of teams that screw themselves over for the next 5-10 years in the next couple of months.

 

[element1286]

The length of the deal is the killer, 16.5 isn't outrageous on a 3 year deal, its way too much on a 5 year deal, but TOR has the money to spend, so I doubt it makes much difference.