Playoff Picture

[CaptainStubing]

sutton didn't adjust his secondary coverages against peyton yet again, though. asking cooper and smith to press man to man, when they are not capable against that group of good receivers, is the wrong scheme. against back-up QB's with suspect WR's, that stuff works. against good qb's with good wr's, they will light you up. it was the wrong scheme against the wrong team.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

sutton didn't adjust his secondary coverages against peyton yet again, though. asking cooper and smith to press man to man, when they are not capable against that group of good receivers, is the wrong scheme. against back-up QB's with suspect WR's, that stuff works. against good qb's with good wr's, they will light you up. it was the wrong scheme against the wrong team.

This is the best scheme against Peyton, it has been proven over and over, and over again in Peyton's career. With that being said, it is incredibly difficult to do against Denver (kind of why they are setting records). Man is perfectly fine in the modern NFL. If anything, the Chiefs played more soft zone against these backup QB's you speak of, so I don't see where your criticism is valid beyond this group of DB's not being capable of covering Denver's receivers. There is no equal to Manning if you don't disrupt his WR's, period. If you don't disrupt the WR's, it is essentially IMPOSSIBLE to stop Manning, he is that good.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

What was disappointing was the poor tackling by the players as the game went along. Eventually, this lead to what was a well contained running game explode for Denver.Sean Smith's mistakle on Moreno on a 3rd down TD also turned out to be a very big deal in the end given the margin of victory for Denver.

Edit: And for love of god, if I see Berry as an LB when our safeties are just meh again I am going to put it on Sutton. Yesterday was understandable given you had to take chances with a Defense that turns out to matchup poorly against the Broncos. Then again, who doesn't? Next 4 weeks? Not a good explanation.

 

[da55bums]

your not going to stop Peyton, just hope to contain him some, lol...but the Chiefs can run offensively with them, if they catch the damn ball. You have to bring your A game to Denver and just know its going to be a shootout...pull out the stickem if you have to, lol...but you better be ready to get passes thrown at you...thats the game you better earn you paycheck.

Good news is, this sets up well if we have to play them in the playoffs...tough to beat a team 3 times in a season and Smith looked freakin great this game, offensively they looked the best they have all season...they needed a few losses to get to working hard again and they have.

 

[CaptainStubing]

This is the best scheme against Peyton, it has been proven over and over, and over again in Peyton's career.

another thing that has been proven over and over, and over again in Peyton's career is that he will absolutely destroy a mediocre cornerback when he is matched up one on one on any of his wide receivers. from the way it looked from my perspective, i believe the chiefs were mostly in cover 1 man the whole game. if you want to play man at the line because you want to 'try' and disrupt the routes (which cooper is incapable of doing, but that's a whole different conversation), that's fine, but play man-under 2 deep and bracket decker and DT. It did not seem the chiefs were doing that because the safeties were nowhere to be found most of the game and they would have been in on every play if they were playing man under 2 deep.

Are the chiefs the inferior team to the broncos right now? yes, that's becoming fairly obvious. however, i think sutton could have given them a better chance to steal one of these games but that's just my opinion.

 

[cdumler7]

another thing that has been proven over and over, and over again in Peyton's career is that he will absolutely destroy a mediocre cornerback when he is matched up one on one on any of his wide receivers. from the way it looked from my perspective, i believe the chiefs were mostly in cover 1 man the whole game. if you want to play man at the line because you want to 'try' and disrupt the routes (which cooper is incapable of doing, but that's a whole different conversation), that's fine, but play man-under 2 deep and bracket decker and DT. It did not seem the chiefs were doing that because the safeties were nowhere to be found most of the game and they would have been in on every play if they were playing man under 2 deep.

Are the chiefs the inferior team to the broncos right now? yes, that's becoming fairly obvious. however, i think sutton could have given them a better chance to steal one of these games but that's just my opinion.

What you are missing on this topic is if you do the man-under 2 deep bracket style defense then that leaves the underneath routes a lot more open. Did you notice that Welker and the TE's barely had their names called in this one for the Broncos? That was by design. Sutton decided he did not want Welker to tear them up over the middle again so they doubled him most of the game which then leaves either Thomas or Decker with one on one coverage most of the game. This has been the dilemma all year for teams of who on the Bronco offense do eliminate and who do you allow to possibly have a big game. Somebody since the Broncos are usually 4 deep (missing Julius Thomas yesterday) is going to have one on one coverage.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Normally if the D was getting clocked like this I would try some zone, but with Peyton you really can't play a true zone defense (doesn't mean you play straight man, but not far off from it) as he can, and will, disgnose the zone and the defense is effectively torched presnap. it is truly an awful dilemna to encounter especially with a rookie (regardless of talent) on a receiver like Decker.


It is a dilemna we will hopefully not encounter again, every defense in the league will get torched by that offense on their good days, it sucks to say as a Chiefs fan, but it is true.

 

[cdumler7]

Normally if the D was getting clocked like this I would try some zone, but with Peyton you really can't play a true zone defense (doesn't mean you play straight man, but not far off from it) as he can, and will, disgnose the zone and the defense is effectively torched presnap. it is truly an awful dilemna to encounter especially with a rookie (regardless of talent) on a receiver like Decker.


It is a dilemna we will hopefully not encounter again, every defense in the league will get torched by that offense on their good days, it sucks to say as a Chiefs fan, but it is true.

Chiefs fans shouldn't get too worked up in my opinion about how this defense has looked against the Broncos. They held the Broncos to their lowest total of the season and well below the season average for this offense. It just so happens that this offense is on pace to go down as one of the top 5 of all time. 10 years ago a defense like the Chiefs would stand a far greater chance of really slowing down this offense but with all the rule changes a great offense really has the upper hand against a great defense.

 

[CaptainStubing]

What you are missing on this topic is if you do the man-under 2 deep bracket style defense then that leaves the underneath routes a lot more open. Did you notice that Welker and the TE's barely had their names called in this one for the Broncos? That was by design. Sutton decided he did not want Welker to tear them up over the middle again so they doubled him most of the game which then leaves either Thomas or Decker with one on one coverage most of the game. This has been the dilemma all year for teams of who on the Bronco offense do eliminate and who do you allow to possibly have a big game. Somebody since the Broncos are usually 4 deep (missing Julius Thomas yesterday) is going to have one on one coverage.

eh, i would take my chances with flowers v welker and berry v JT or Tamme instead of leaving cooper (a rookie) and smith on an island against decker and DT. but, just my opinion.

 

[cdumler7]

eh, i would take my chances with flowers v welker and berry v JT or Tamme instead of leaving cooper (a rookie) and smith on an island against decker and DT. but, just my opinion.

I agree with that (although Flowers was beaten for 2 of the touchdowns yesterday). Yesterday the Chiefs decided with Julius Thomas out that they would bring Berry up to the line of scrimmage and allow him to use his athleticism to disrupt the run and pass game more as a blitzer than as a coverage guy. It worked sometimes as the Chiefs got more pressure this game than in the first without one of their top pass rushers. By playing this aggressive style though and using the other safety to play more of a center field then using one of the linebackers to help cover Welker it left the outside deep play open. Pretty much the Chiefs were daring Peyton to have to beat them deep and hoping the corners in press man could throw off the timing long enough for the Chiefs to get to Peyton. The Broncos OL held up pretty well in the game and the receivers especially on Cooper were able to get separation. All 3 corners though gave up plays in this one so he can't be the only one at fault in this. Yes he is the one that got burned the most but that is why he is the 3rd corner on the depth chart not the top guy. Sutton should have done a little more in telling the deep safety to lean more towards Coopers side but then again by the time he gets there from the middle usually Peyton already has the ball on its way to the receiver.

Now also understand this style of defense is not one the Chiefs can play say Julius Thomas is not injured as Berry would have to be in coverage but with him out it allowed them to be a little more aggressive. Unfortunately for the Chiefs the Broncos OL has been playing lights out the last few weeks and that blitz did not get there like they had hoped. It was a calculated gamble.

 

[CaptainStubing]

I agree with that (although Flowers was beaten for 2 of the touchdowns yesterday). Yesterday the Chiefs decided with Julius Thomas out that they would bring Berry up to the line of scrimmage and allow him to use his athleticism to disrupt the run and pass game more as a blitzer than as a coverage guy. It worked sometimes as the Chiefs got more pressure this game than in the first without one of their top pass rushers. By playing this aggressive style though and using the other safety to play more of a center field then using one of the linebackers to help cover Welker it left the outside deep play open. Pretty much the Chiefs were daring Peyton to have to beat them deep and hoping the corners in press man could throw off the timing long enough for the Chiefs to get to Peyton. The Broncos OL held up pretty well in the game and the receivers especially on Cooper were able to get separation. All 3 corners though gave up plays in this one so he can't be the only one at fault in this. Yes he is the one that got burned the most but that is why he is the 3rd corner on the depth chart not the top guy. Sutton should have done a little more in telling the deep safety to lean more towards Coopers side but then again by the time he gets there from the middle usually Peyton already has the ball on its way to the receiver.

Now also understand this style of defense is not one the Chiefs can play say Julius Thomas is not injured as Berry would have to be in coverage but with him out it allowed them to be a little more aggressive. Unfortunately for the Chiefs the Broncos OL has been playing lights out the last few weeks and that blitz did not get there like they had hoped. It was a calculated gamble.

i think flowers only gave up 1 td yesterday. but, flowers shouldn't have been covering decker or DT one on one either. he's a midget. one on one against welker, he stands a chance. if cooper or smith had coverage skills, they would be perfect match-ups for decker and DT. they are tall and strong. unfortunately for the chiefs, they can't cover. that's why they should have had help.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

These next four games should tell us if Cooper can bounce back this season.

 

[cdumler7]

i think flowers only gave up 1 td yesterday. but, flowers shouldn't have been covering decker or DT one on one either. he's a midget. one on one against welker, he stands a chance. if cooper or smith had coverage skills, they would be perfect match-ups for decker and DT. they are tall and strong. unfortunately for the chiefs, they can't cover. that's why they should have had help.

Flowers gave up the 1st touchdown to Decker (I do think he was supposed to have some safety help over the top but safety froze to help with the underneath just for a second), 2nd one they were in zone but it was scored in Sean Smith's part of the zone so I guess that one would get credited to him (Cooper did give up the big pass to set up the goal line play), 3rd touchdown was once again Flowers where Decker got deeper than him and the safety both (so again he was supposed to have safety help but Flowers got beat as well on this one so it is really on both of them), Cooper then gave up the big play to Thomas (not for a touchdown) followed by giving up the touchdown to Decker, and then the final touchdown was once again Cooper one on one with Decker.

So really all 3 corners gave up touchdowns in this one with 2 against Cooper, 2 against Flowers, and 1 against Smith.

Now a couple of points towards your thoughts on this. If Flowers was having trouble keeping up with Decker there is no way he is keeping up with Welker one on one. The first meeting saw Welker make plenty of plays when the Chiefs decided to try that very thing you are talking about. Next is by giving the extra safety help deep that then completely opens up the run game for the Broncos. Pretty much you are making it 5 on 5 blocking up front which is exactly what New England did the week before to see the Broncos rush for nearly 300 yards. So again with this Broncos offense you have to pick where you are willing to gamble to let them beat you. It makes sense to have chosen Decker as that guy. He has had a down year, a problem with drops, and some major issues with getting off the line in press man. He has been the weak spot in this Bronco offense. Now in doing so the Chiefs have to realize Decker when on is a tough guy to take on. He hasn't been very consistent so he would be the guy I would have picked as well to let try to beat me. The Chiefs lined up their greatest weakness in Cooper against the Broncos greatest weakness on offense in Decker and it just so happened Decker beat him and beat any of the corners they stuck in front of him.

Also have to remember Manning since he hurt his ankle had struggled some with the deep ball being very consistent so the Chiefs flooded that 5-10 yard range with guys. Just so happened Peyton has been getting healthier and is hitting those throws that he was missing the last 5 weeks or so.

Again there is no defense in this league that can completely shut down every weapon the Broncos have on offense. It is a matter of taking some calculated risks and hoping for Peyton or others to make a few mistakes or key drops.

 

[MHSL82]

The NFL screwed up, they should have made Denver finish second in this division so that they could have a Denver-Baltimore rematch, a Manning return to Indy, followed by the Manning-Brady bowl, and then rig things so that the Giants got in to have either Manning v. Manning or Brady's revenge over Eli.

 

[cdumler7]

The NFL screwed up, they should have made Denver finish second in this division so that they could have a Denver-Baltimore rematch, a Manning return to Indy, followed by the Manning-Brady bowl, and then rig things so that the Giants got in to have either Manning v. Manning or Brady's revenge over Eli.

The NFL had their chance and blew it! Still hoping for a Denver-Baltimore rematch. Hard time seeing them beat Cincinnati at home but hey that will be 2 weeks in a row if it does happen that way so who knows what can happen. Still have a very bitter taste in my mouth from that loss. The 7 touchdown game by Peyton at the beginning of the year helped but a playoff win would taste so sweet. Unfortunately it is looking more and more like the Broncos and Chiefs are destined for a 3rd meeting this season. Not usually good for the team that has won twice. The Chiefs will have nothing to lose in that game. If they lose then no big whoop because it would be expected but if they win oh man the trolls would come out of their caves and this board would be unbearable. Plus the town I live in is about half Chiefs and half Broncos so I can't imagine the Civil War that would come from that.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

The NFL screwed up, they should have made Denver finish second in this division so that they could have a Denver-Baltimore rematch, a Manning return to Indy, followed by the Manning-Brady bowl, and then rig things so that the Giants got in to have either Manning v. Manning or Brady's revenge over Eli.

Quick, get the NBA refs!

 

[Fountain City Blues]

The NFL had their chance and blew it! Still hoping for a Denver-Baltimore rematch. Hard time seeing them beat Cincinnati at home but hey that will be 2 weeks in a row if it does happen that way so who knows what can happen. Still have a very bitter taste in my mouth from that loss. The 7 touchdown game by Peyton at the beginning of the year helped but a playoff win would taste so sweet. Unfortunately it is looking more and more like the Broncos and Chiefs are destined for a 3rd meeting this season. Not usually good for the team that has won twice. The Chiefs will have nothing to lose in that game. If they lose then no big whoop because it would be expected but if they win oh man the trolls would come out of their caves and this board would be unbearable. Plus the town I live in is about half Chiefs and half Broncos so I can't imagine the Civil War that would come from that.

I assume you are in western Kansas?

 

[cdumler7]

I assume you are in western Kansas?

You would be correct. We had a Broncos/Chiefs party for the first of the 2 meetings earlier in the year and I would say it was about even for who was cheering for who. Living only a few hours from Denver yet always getting the Chiefs game when the two play at the same time drives me nuts. I keep writing to CBS and Fox letting them know that the Chiefs are not actually a Kansas sports team but never seem to get a response. Heck Fox one week had the Eastern side of Kansas showing the Broncos game once while the Western side got the Dallas game. Ok sorry rant is over. I actually do respect the Chiefs quite a bit and have actually been to more Chiefs games than Bronco games (best friend who is a Chiefs fan has season tickets every year so free tickets for me!) I like that they are winning this season as the AFC West is a lot more fun when the winner of the division isn't decided by about week 8 of the season.

 

[CrashDavisSports]

after starting 9-0, i could see the chiefs finishing 10-6. fortunately for them, that will be plenty to get the #5 seed in the afc and a trip to cincy in the playoffs, which is a very winnable game for anyone.

1. I think Cincy will eventually wind up with the #2 seed with Gronk out for the year, and NE having to play in MIA and BAL still, two teams fighting like hell for that 6th seed.

2. Cincinnati is 6-0 at home this year where they have scored 40+ points 3 out of the 6 times against the Jets, Browns and Colts. Along with wins over the Patriots, Packers WITH Rodgers and the Steelers.

I don't think Cincinnati is a pushover in any respect, especially at home. It all depends on which Andy Dalton shows up (the one that has won 3 offensive league awards this year - 2 player of the weeks and 1 player of the month), or the Dalton that couldn't hit the borad side of a barn during a 4 game stretch. In a couple of those games, wind played a big part in the outcome of Dalton's day, so as long as it is at home, and the conditions do not involve a heavy wind, I think Dalton and the Bengals could beat the Chiefs who have only beat two teams with winning records, the Cowboys and the Eagles, which includes an Eagle team before they discovered the mystery of winning with Foles.

The Bengals have beat several teams this year that have a winning record, or against teams that have great QB's. Don't be so quick to dismiss the Bengals is all I am saying.

 

[cdumler7]

1. I think Cincy will eventually wind up with the #2 seed with Gronk out for the year, and NE having to play in MIA and BAL still, two teams fighting like hell for that 6th seed.

2. Cincinnati is 6-0 at home this year where they have scored 40+ points 3 out of the 6 times against the Jets, Browns and Colts. Along with wins over the Patriots, Packers WITH Rodgers and the Steelers.

I don't think Cincinnati is a pushover in any respect, especially at home. It all depends on which Andy Dalton shows up (the one that has won 3 offensive league awards this year - 2 player of the weeks and 1 player of the month), or the Dalton that couldn't hit the borad side of a barn during a 4 game stretch. In a couple of those games, wind played a big part in the outcome of Dalton's day, so as long as it is at home, and the conditions do not involve a heavy wind, I think Dalton and the Bengals could beat the Chiefs who have only beat two teams with winning records, the Cowboys and the Eagles, which includes an Eagle team before they discovered the mystery of winning with Foles.

The Bengals have beat several teams this year that have a winning record, or against teams that have great QB's. Don't be so quick to dismiss the Bengals is all I am saying.

Well the way it is set up now I doubt the Bengals would have to play the Chiefs. Right now it is looking like the Chiefs and Indy is almost a foregone conclusion for the first round. I would bet the Chiefs win that one which would most likely send them to Denver as I don't see Cincy losing to either the Dolphins or Ravens. If Cincy does take over the #2 seed (which I honestly think they stand a good chance of) then again it would be either the Patriots or possibly the Chiefs I guess coming to Cincy depending what happens with the #3 vs #6 seed. I honestly have no clue how the Patriots are going to be without Gronk so say they struggle on offense like they did earlier in the year I could see them losing even to the #6 seed.