Paul to Lakers falling apart

[DaBoltsNIsles]

This.

It's huge. Everybody assumes that because the Lakers were getting CP3, that they were getting better. I disagree - their success in the past few years we due largely to their overpowering size, length, and versatility in the front line between Bynum, Gasol, and Odom. (And oh, yeah, Kobe had something to do with it.) This would be banking their success on CP3, Kobe, and Bynum - and how many good knees exist among the 3 of those? Their entire style of game would have to change significantly. Aside from his injury history, Bynum is also foul prone, so he probably can't be counted on for more than 30 minutes/game (at most). And unless other teams were moronic enough to shell more talent to the Lakers to fill the trade exception they'd get (unlikely, if you ask me), you basically are looking at no real opportunity for the Lakers to improve. Yes, CP3 and Kobe are fantastic. But Metta World Peace is on the decline, and they don't really have anybody else on the front line. I would feel much more confident about the Warriors' ability to beat the Lakers with only 3 real good players (CP3, Kobe, and Bynum) than I ever felt about them going against the front line of Gasol, Odom, and Bynum. I bet a lot of other teams feel the same.

Then there's the little matter of "can Kobe play off the ball"..... probably, but this might also limit his effectiveness. He's been the Man in LA, because he's always had the ball, but that might change. How would that dynamic go? Can't be sure.

I think this was, and still is, the best deal New Orleans could get. And I actually think it weakens the Lakers. One knee injury among those 3 guys, who have a history of that, and they'd be in huge trouble.

The Hornets would be adding 30 million in payroll & it would have put them near the cap ceiling. The Lakers would be acquiring Paul & gaining 21 million in cap space. That's a HUGE win for the Lakers. I don't believe a team which is owned by the league should be allowed anywhere near the cap ceiling. Obviously the league agreed for the time being.

 

[Heathbar012]

The Hornets would be adding 30 million in payroll & it would have put them near the cap ceiling. The Lakers would be acquiring Paul & gaining 21 million in cap space. That's a HUGE win for the Lakers. I don't believe a team which is owned by the league should be allowed anywhere near the cap ceiling. Obviously the league agreed for the time being.

Excellent point, but if the main goal of the league is to keep the Hornets in New Orleans, they better improve the product on the court. Letting Paul walk after this season will not do that. The players that they should have received would have been a step in the right direction. If it isn't in the NBA's best interest to have a franchise in NOLA, then so be it. I would think most owners are not short-sighted enough to think that contributing "close to ceiling" money to the Hornets isn't beneficial to NBA brand.

 

[scotsman1948]

the League already allowed one team to break every major rule when they allowed the Heat to pull off the big 3 shameful deal and now the Lakers are trying to do the same thing by trading for CP3 and then Howard. the other teams were not going to allow 2 teams to dominate the league for years.

 

[REAL_Harrison]

the League already allowed one team to break every major rule when they allowed the Heat to pull off the big 3 shameful deal and now the Lakers are trying to do the same thing by trading for CP3 and then Howard. the other teams were not going to allow 2 teams to dominate the league for years.

Really? What rules did they break? Let's not forget the league JUST ENDED a lockout, if the owners aren't happy with the current rules in place they could've held out longer. Everything the Heat did and everything the Lakers were doing was well within the rules

 

[Ray_Dogg]

Trade with Clips is now dead. I wonder if this gives us a shot at Jordan since they Clips still have Kaman. I guess Kaman gets moved to somebody else now though.

 

[scotsman1948]

Really? What rules did they break? Let's not forget the league JUST ENDED a lockout, if the owners aren't happy with the current rules in place they could've held out longer. Everything the Heat did and everything the Lakers were doing was well within the rules

right. somehow it's a good deal when the Hornets end up taking on salary that puts them near the salary cap while the Lakers end up clearing nearly 21M from their cap hit

 

[REAL_Harrison]

right. somehow it's a good deal when the Hornets end up taking on salary that puts them near the salary cap while the Lakers end up clearing nearly 21M from their cap hit

As the Hornets GM its not really your job to give a sh*t what the Lakers get, because let's be honest, if the Hornets keep Paul and lose him in free agency the Lakers are just gonna sign him anyway and then the Hornets don't get sh*t for him. David Stern vetoing the deal says he thinks he knows more than THREE NBA GMs! The NBA is making it impossible for Dell Demps to do his job and not only hurting the Hornets but now also the Clippers.

 

[Ginger]

Excellent point, but if the main goal of the league is to keep the Hornets in New Orleans, they better improve the product on the court. Letting Paul walk after this season will not do that. The players that they should have received would have been a step in the right direction. If it isn't in the NBA's best interest to have a franchise in NOLA, then so be it. I would think most owners are not short-sighted enough to think that contributing "close to ceiling" money to the Hornets isn't beneficial to NBA brand.

From my recollection haven't the Hornets been mostly a playoff team for years now? I think they were even when they were in Charlotte. I am pretty sure they made the playoffs this last season. Honestly, I think Paul has been a problem there. It seems every year all the talk and speculation is about him wanting out even when they have been a good, solid team. That kind of nonsense has to be driving fans away.

 

[Ginger]

As the Hornets GM its not really your job to give a sh*t what the Lakers get, because let's be honest, if the Hornets keep Paul and lose him in free agency the Lakers are just gonna sign him anyway and then the Hornets don't get sh*t for him. David Stern vetoing the deal says he thinks he knows more than THREE NBA GMs! The NBA is making it impossible for Dell Demps to do his job and not only hurting the Hornets but now also the Clippers.

The Lakers deal sucked for the Hornets. They Clippers deal looked pretty good to me. I don't think you can be trading away a legitimate super star and get Scola, Martin and Odom back. That is just reprehensible. They need young players who are cheap and good plus draft picks. They need to come out of this with at least one budding superstar or the chance to get a superstar.

 

[Heathbar012]

From my recollection haven't the Hornets been mostly a playoff team for years now? I think they were even when they were in Charlotte. I am pretty sure they made the playoffs this last season. Honestly, I think Paul has been a problem there. It seems every year all the talk and speculation is about him wanting out even when they have been a good, solid team. That kind of nonsense has to be driving fans away.

Definitely, but how awful will they be if they get nothing for him? Trust me, I would never favor the improvement of the Lakers, but I also don't favor the NBA's owners deciding what is a good deal for the three teams involved (when the GMs seem to disagree). Their only objective in terms of the Hornets should be improving the situation to make it attractive to a prospective buyer. I don't know what they want from this situation, and maybe New Orleans can't support a team. As you pointed out, they have continually made it to the playoffs, but they don't make money. The Clippers' offer was better than the Lakers', and somehow, that wasn't good enough. None of it makes sense, and I think it's moving toward the Lakers unloading salary and signing both CP3 and DH-12 in the 2012 off-season, anyway, and the franchises in NOLA and Orlando fading into obscurity. How does that help the league? Why was there a lockout again?

 

[Heathbar012]

The Lakers deal sucked for the Hornets. They Clippers deal looked pretty good to me. I don't think you can be trading away a legitimate super star and get Scola, Martin and Odom back. That is just reprehensible. They need young players who are cheap and good plus draft picks. They need to come out of this with at least one budding superstar or the chance to get a superstar.

They would have gotten a pick, too. Granted, it would have been a worse pick than the T-Wolves' one that was in the Clippers' offer. That offer was better than the Lakers' offer, but not by the margin that you suggest. Right now, Martin and Scola are better (and have been healthier) than Kaman and Gordon. For the next two years, Odom will be better than Aminu. Reprehensible seems like a bit of an overstatement.

 

[Ginger]

They would have gotten a pick, too. Granted, it would have been a worse pick than the T-Wolves' one that was in the Clippers' offer. That offer was better than the Lakers' offer, but not by the margin that you suggest. Right now, Martin and Scola are better (and have been healthier) than Kaman and Gordon. For the next two years, Odom will be better than Aminu. Reprehensible seems like a bit of an overstatement.

I think reprehensible is the correct word. Think about it. Houston wasn't very good last season. Now, if NO gets both the players that Houston wants to shed how will they be any better than Houston for the next 2 or 3 years? I don't see how. At best they'd be mediocre. It really wouldn't be a competitive team in any way. With the Clips deal they get younger players who have upside and they get some good draft picks. Nothing is worse in the NBA than being mediocre to bad and not having any cap room.

 

[Heathbar012]

I think reprehensible is the correct word. Think about it. Houston wasn't very good last season. Now, if NO gets both the players that Houston wants to shed how will they be any better than Houston for the next 2 or 3 years? I don't see how. At best they'd be mediocre. It really wouldn't be a competitive team in any way. With the Clips deal they get younger players who have upside and they get some good draft picks. Nothing is worse in the NBA than being mediocre to bad and not having any cap room.

How ironic that you would type this on the Warriors' message board about another team. I definitely agree that the Clippers' offer is better (mostly because the younger players have a lot of upside), but not by enough to use the word "reprehensible." Yes. Without CP3, the Hornets will not be better than with him (no matter the trade), but nothing is worse than getting nothing for him. Perhaps a better word would be "average." For the first time ever, I think Lamar Odom is being undervalued. Just because he was recently traded away for next to nothing doesn't mean he wouldn't have had another great season alongside Martin, Scola and Dragic (forgot he was involved in this trade, but he might be the hidden gem). Honestly, that team would probably earn a six seed in the West right now with Okafor rounding out the starting 5 and Jack and Ariza coming off the bench. Plus, cap room is a lot easier to obtain than a superstar.

In closing, I get what you're saying, and I think you definitely know what you're talking about. I just disagree that the Lakers didn't make a decent offer. At least three NBA GMs agree with me. The other 29 owners that would have to foot the bill are the only ones that don't.

 

[Ray_Dogg]

So Clips claimed Billups off amnesty waivers. Billups can't be traded. Clips plan to match on Jordan and have him at practice tonight. I guess we could always trade for Kaman. haha

 

[rmilia1]

The Lakers deal sucked for the Hornets. They Clippers deal looked pretty good to me. I don't think you can be trading away a legitimate super star and get Scola, Martin and Odom back. That is just reprehensible. They need young players who are cheap and good plus draft picks. They need to come out of this with at least one budding superstar or the chance to get a superstar.

Scola, Martin and Odom are all very good players. The Lakers deal probably makes the Hornets a better team right now than the Clippers deal would have but I get the point about the cap. The reality is that no one, not one team, is going to trade a superstar or even a potential superstar for Paul. It aint happening. Not when hes a free agent in 7 months.

 

[Heathbar012]

Scola, Martin and Odom are all very good players. The Lakers deal probably makes the Hornets a better team right now than the Clippers deal would have but I get the point about the cap. The reality is that no one, not one team, is going to trade a superstar or even a potential superstar for Paul. It aint happening. Not when hes a free agent in 7 months.

Thank you. That is a much more succinct way to put what I was trying to get at. Rep.

 

[rmilia1]

Here is the facts of all this:

1. CP3 has made no secret to the fact he wants to be in a major market preferably New York.

2. The NBA has shown with their nixing of these 2 proposed trades that the price to trade for Paul is WAY to high for most ( if not all ) teams to pay.

3. In a lockout shortened season the odds of any team trading away 1/2 their talent for anyone, even someone as good as CP3, is slim to none. Not enough time to integrate him into the new lineup ( see the Heat last year )

4. The league is asking for an astronomical amount because they are wanting to sell the Hornets and dont want to be hamstrung with little to no talent ( obviously not being very forward thinking here as Paul is gone after this year regardless)

5. Combining 1&2 the league has very few options remaining to trade Paul since they have blown out 2 of the only major market teams that will make offers.

6. Even if a smaller market team does put together a HUGE package for Paul that the NBA would approve there is little to no shot of Paul being traded since he likely wouldnt sign an extension with anyone besides a LA/NY/NJ anyway and no team is giving up a ton of talent for 6 months of Paul.

- The reality is that the NBA has painted themselves into a corner. As the season progresses the odds of any team trading for Paul becomes almost non existent. The closer he gets to free agency the more he will want to just ride out this year and go wherever he wants to go after the season. The Hornets are going to be straight screwed here as they will likely end up losing CP3 and getting nothing back. To make matters worse the Hornets are probably a 6-8 seed in the West this year if Paul stays meaning they wont get a great draft pick either. Now what business man or woman is going to buy a team that has no marketable players, will be bad for the foreseeable future and is likely to have driven their fans away by the handling of this whole situation???? NONE. Its a giant clusterfuck brought onto the owners by themselves and the commissioner.

 

[Heathbar012]

Here is the facts of all this:

1. CP3 has made no secret to the fact he wants to be in a major market preferably New York.

2. The NBA has shown with their nixing of these 2 proposed trades that the price to trade for Paul is WAY to high for most ( if not all ) teams to pay.

3. In a lockout shortened season the odds of any team trading away 1/2 their talent for anyone, even someone as good as CP3, is slim to none. Not enough time to integrate him into the new lineup ( see the Heat last year )

4. The league is asking for an astronomical amount because they are wanting to sell the Hornets and dont want to be hamstrung with little to no talent ( obviously not being very forward thinking here as Paul is gone after this year regardless)

5. Combining 1&2 the league has very few options remaining to trade Paul since they have blown out 2 of the only major market teams that will make offers.

6. Even if a smaller market team does put together a HUGE package for Paul that the NBA would approve there is little to no shot of Paul being traded since he likely wouldnt sign an extension with anyone besides a LA/NY/NJ anyway and no team is giving up a ton of talent for 6 months of Paul.

- The reality is that the NBA has painted themselves into a corner. As the season progresses the odds of any team trading for Paul becomes almost non existent. The closer he gets to free agency the more he will want to just ride out this year and go wherever he wants to go after the season. The Hornets are going to be straight screwed here as they will likely end up losing CP3 and getting nothing back. To make matters worse the Hornets are probably a 6-8 seed in the West this year if Paul stays meaning they wont get a great draft pick either. Now what business man or woman is going to buy a team that has no marketable players, will be bad for the foreseeable future and is likely to have driven their fans away by the handling of this whole situation???? NONE. Its a giant clusterfuck brought onto the owners by themselves and the commissioner.

Thank you. That is a much more thorough way of explaining what I was trying to say earlier in the thread.

 

[wildturkey]

Here is the facts of all this:

1. CP3 has made no secret to the fact he wants to be in a major market preferably New York.

2. The NBA has shown with their nixing of these 2 proposed trades that the price to trade for Paul is WAY to high for most ( if not all ) teams to pay.

3. In a lockout shortened season the odds of any team trading away 1/2 their talent for anyone, even someone as good as CP3, is slim to none. Not enough time to integrate him into the new lineup ( see the Heat last year )

4. The league is asking for an astronomical amount because they are wanting to sell the Hornets and dont want to be hamstrung with little to no talent ( obviously not being very forward thinking here as Paul is gone after this year regardless)

5. Combining 1&2 the league has very few options remaining to trade Paul since they have blown out 2 of the only major market teams that will make offers.

6. Even if a smaller market team does put together a HUGE package for Paul that the NBA would approve there is little to no shot of Paul being traded since he likely wouldnt sign an extension with anyone besides a LA/NY/NJ anyway and no team is giving up a ton of talent for 6 months of Paul.

- The reality is that the NBA has painted themselves into a corner. As the season progresses the odds of any team trading for Paul becomes almost non existent. The closer he gets to free agency the more he will want to just ride out this year and go wherever he wants to go after the season. The Hornets are going to be straight screwed here as they will likely end up losing CP3 and getting nothing back. To make matters worse the Hornets are probably a 6-8 seed in the West this year if Paul stays meaning they wont get a great draft pick either. Now what business man or woman is going to buy a team that has no marketable players, will be bad for the foreseeable future and is likely to have driven their fans away by the handling of this whole situation???? NONE. Its a giant clusterfuck brought onto the owners by themselves and the commissioner.

Nailed it.

 

[CameronFrye]

One more thing: The way the new CBA rules are set up, a player like Paul who gets traded will actually make MORE money waiting until free agency and then re-signing with his team than if he gets traded and signs an extension as part of the deal.

So I highly doubt that ANY player will ever sign an extension as part of a trade.