Lorenzen, not Axelgrease

[JohnU]

Reds tab Lorenzen to start Wednesday, Leake moved to Thursday
by R.J. White | CBSSports.com
The Reds will start Michael Lorenzen Wednesday against the Brewers and push Mike Leake to make Thursday's start against the Braves, the Cincinnati Enquirer reports.

Lorenzen will be making his major-league debut Wednesday. He's 2-1 with a 2.84 ERA and 12:4 K:BB ratio in 19 innings over three Triple-A starts.

Leake has tossed at least seven innings in three straight starts and owns a 3.90 ERA and 22:8 K:BB ratio in 27 2/3 innings over four starts this season.

 

[Redsfan1507]

I thought this kid should have made the team out of spring training.

 

[Hit-n-Run]

Hopefully he can get through the MLB debut jitters and build from there.

Normally a weekday afternoon game has a small crowd. Be interesting to see how many walk ups there are today. Not that there's a lot of hype with his first start, but die hard fans like that sort of thing especially when there's no local TV game coverage.. Eighteen thousand would be a big crowd.

 

[JohnU]

I am told that there will be local TV today on it, though it was not scheduled originally. At least the TV guys said that last night.

 

[Redsfan1507]

We'll see. He's appeared to be a bit of a different animal. He's a real strong faith kind of kid, believes everything in his life is Gods plan. Not that I would offer an opinion on validity of that, but those kind of people tend to stress less and proceed with more confidence. It doesn't hurt that he's a knowledge sponge and a physical specimen with pretty impressive stuff already. He was a position player before, pitching, which IMO, has saved his arm. He's not likely to shake off a sign, which depending on your confidence in whoever is giving signs for the Reds, is what it is, but is going to at least keep him thinking less. I do wish the hometown press would have asked a couple dozen less questions of him ladt night, but he's hopefully, going to have to get used to that.

I like his chances of pitching well today. The Brewers are not a good team right now. Probably more pressure on them than Lorenzen.

 

[JohnU]

Part of this depends on the offense, as usual. Getting him 3 runs in the first inning would be a nice way to let him ease his path on the mound for a couple of innings. Of course, any pitcher would love 3 runs in the first inning.

Cincy has just been too uneven in too many areas this year. I have not seen the lineup yet, and presume Barnhart is catching.

 

[Redsfan1507]

Barnhart might catch because of his familiarity with Lorenzen, but I wouldn't do it. I would expect Pena to be better versed in the Brewers MLB hitters, and that scouting report should be more valid info than what he got outs on in the minors. If have my most experienced pitch caller for a rookies debut.

 

[JohnU]

Better would be a manager who antipated that, unlike the one we have. Barnhart could have caught Cueto. Hell, anybody can catch Cueto. Pena needs a day off. So what does Price do ... he does a Dusty.

His bullpen management is very suspect. Cingrani could have given them 3 innings.

Jumbo is now my favorite relief pitcher.

boom
boom
boom

 

[Redsfan1507]

Reds hit 3 HR...for all 3 of their runs ? BP had 2 hits, BH another and Lorenzen added one himself. 7 hits ? That's it ? 3 runs sometimes wins a game, but I'd say 8 almost always does. Lorenzen gave up 3 on 3 solo homers, is that right ? In 5 innings. Not a great MLB debut, but a lot better than the vet bullpen giving up 5. I understand 4 came on a Braun Grannie, but hard to say Jumbo lost it on one bad pitch with 3 other guys on first.

Cueto and Chapman are All-Star pitchers. Mike Leake is a serviceable back of the rotation pitcher that can be expected to have about a 4.00 ERA and .500 record, a few more or less. The rest of the 12-13 pitchers on this staff at any given time, are a total questionmark at best. Desclafani has pitched very well- only 1 of 4 games haven't been terrific....but he's a rookie, with small sample size results. Same with Cingrani...and the old guy, Marquis. The rest have been deplorable as a whole...for some reason, I do doubt better results over a larger sample size. Pessimism ? Other than Bailey, who was coming off an injury-by definition a questionmark given recent medical issues and recovery on this team-Jocketty knew he was asking to catch lightning in a bottle with 3/4 of a pitching staff, or he knew they were going to blow. Either way, it's a failure that he had to be aware of.

Shit happens, and flows downhill.

I guess we're supposed to take solace in Votto earning the salary that forced the discount pitching staff decision. Bailey, not so much. I know...Bailey was supposed to be healthy...like Votto, Latos, Marshall and Bruce last year....and Madson a couple years ago. Now Mesoraco's got a mystery ailment too... Maybe they should have fired Dr. Kremcheck.

You can't predict injuries, I know...but it might get worse....just saying, it might have been a good idea not to sign more than 1 guy no other team wants, all in the same year. Chances of every other team being wrong on more than 1 guy has to be close to zero. Gregg, Marquis, Badenhop, Parra, Hoover, Jumbo all have potential to be THAT kind of player...Hell, some already were.

Chapman needs to start. He won't get 35 save situations all year with this pitching staff.

 

[JohnU]

Lorenzen made a nice debut. He will give up some home runs, I think, but he has a blowaway fastball that he didn't really use. That's not for me to evaluate. But he didn't allow all that many baserunners. Only 1 walk against a swingaholic team.

The bullpen has stopped being an embarrassment and has become an insult. it was an insult in February. it's not going to change. How can it? Unless they DFA the whole lot of them. Hoover just got lucky today after botching his one job -- as the Reds broadcasters noted -- he came in to pitch to the bottom of the order, a lucky break if there ever was one. So what does he do? Yeah, turns the lineup over so that the middle of the Milw. order gets another swing at it in the 8th inning. Not much is made of guys who get out of the inning but if you let Braun and those guys get 5 cuts at it, they will sooner or later launch one.

Jumbo just can't get anybody out. I think that might have been the book on him last year but we didn't pay much attention to his history.

 

[Redsfan1507]

They knew last year they probably couldn't sign Cueto, but after Scherzer and Lester's deals, they should have traded him immediately. Probably could have gotten a player you would recognize and a prospect or two. They could have kept Simon for the year and done without Suarez. Hell, they could have kept Broxton and started Chapman. Latos for Desclafani might have made sense, and I get letting Ludwick go, and agree Byrd was a better player, but not for the money they had to spend on him. I'd have gotten Meso flyballs in LF for 50 games a year, played Yorman or Lutz, or even 22 yr. old Winkler... and kept Barnhart for MLB minimum as a 3rd catcher first. They don't need 7 of these bums in the bullpen. 5 would have been plenty. LeCure couldn't be worse.

They finished 4th with Cueto last year, and are unlikely to do worse without him this year. If they had done any of the above, and dropped the price of a beer to $7.50, they probably wouldn't have lost 2 dozen tickets all year. At this rate, GABP is going to have to start playing to an empty stadium in protest, it just won't be a protest of police....wouldn't THAT be embarrassing in the All-Star Game year ?

 

[JohnU]

I am in the minority camp in liking Barnhart a lot more than some other catchers we could get for scrub work.
Moving Mesoraco to LF would not have been the worst idea. In a pinch, he can always come in to catch a couple of innings. He's not going to be a catcher much longer anyway with that hip problem. Those things heal if you don't get them in the first place.

 

[Redsfan1507]

Barnhart is a good D catcher. That's fine for a backup, or a #1 if you don[t have 2 OF's hitting .150. I'd rather have a .175 hitting backup catcher playing 55 games a year and a real cleanup hitter in LF playing 140 games, than what we've got now.

 

[JohnU]

I suppose it's all relative. When the best OF we have has an OBP of .320, it doesn't do much good to pretend you want to steal second base. But I think Barnhart is a better hitter than that. He may be Hanigan (v2) and he's never going to be Mesoraco (v2) ... but Pena's career is probably headed elsewhere next year. Somebody has to catch. Mesoraco, as I re-assert, isn't what I call an automatic to go back there again this year.

 

[Hit-n-Run]

Lorenzen debut was a mixed bag. Got ahead of hitters and nibbled a bit too much going full early in the game. Showed good presence on the mound and challenged hitters when he had to avoiding the free passes. One walk, 8 hits including three HR's , and a few hard hit outs. Was around the plate consistently and could have benefitted from a few calls going his way. But in the end you have to pitch to the umps strike zone.

I'm sure he had his adrenaline pumping which probably had him over throwing a bit. I'd expect him to settle in next time out and have better command and movenent.

 

[Hit-n-Run]

Cingrani looked good...Hoover dug a hole and crawled out of it.... . another lead off walk.

Jumbo looked like he's never had PFP in his life. I think we'll see a few more bunts when he's on the mound going forward. He'll have to try a little harder to join Gregg and Badenhop in the 10 ERA club.... he's at 9.72.

 

[JohnU]

The trick would be to go to a 6-man rotation, with Cingrani in there. When a guy pitches, he needs to get through the 8th inning, regardless. Just bypass the bullpen, period.
If he has 5 days rest, he can do that.
Fuck this bullpen. If the team is ahead, put Chappy in. If not, just chalk it up and hope.

 

[Redsfan1507]

SP have to go 8 innings here to win. So, a 6 man rotation makes perfect sense to me. 6 starters, 2 long men and 1 closer. A 9 man pitching staff, then they could keep 2 more to pitch as soon as we're down by 3 or more, to save the above for games we can actually win. It's not Moneyball, Billy Ball or The Cardinal Way, but we could call it the Price of No Bullpen.

 

[Hit-n-Run]

Lorenzen looked much more relaxed 2nd time around. Finished off AB's more effeciently with the exception of the 4th inning. Pitched himself into trouble with two outs, but got out of it unscathed. The fourth drove up his pitch count and sent him to the showers a little earlier than it might have otherwise.

He has short and compact mechanics. Bodes well for repeatable delivery, but his delivery is almost to clean. He could benefit from something as simple as hiding the ball a bit better as teams begin to get a better scouting report and film on him as he progresses around the league. He hits 95 regularly and appears to have good enough command across his entire repertoire. Great natural talent with a lot of upside as he gains experience. The kid has less than 200 professional innings pitched....no doubt he's a quick learner.

 

[JohnU]

I agree. He impresses me on a lot of levels but ... yeah ... the book on him isn't being read yet. He's the sort of kid who could win 10-12 games. He also seems more than alert at the plate, no surprise on that.

I imagine they will shut him down short of 150 innings. All in all, the pitching seems a little better lately with the occasional bouts of sloppy selection.