Looking ahead

[JohnU]

I can't say how much interest in this team we will have going into June, since it's clear there's not much of a strategy.

Does anybody actually care now? It appears, not.

Layne Somsen has been called up twice and has yet to throw a pitch. Either there's a bullpen issue or there is not but Blake Wood and Ross Ohlendorf are far from the future of this franchise.

Which is the point: What is ahead? Cody Reed ... does it matter if he gets shelled at the top level? The old saw about it wrecking his morale is a box full of crap.

Does Jess Winker make this team? I don't really see that he is needed this year, unless Bruce is dealt. Even then, it depends on who the Reds get in return.

After Barnhart, who's our catcher?

The impending return of the lost rotation, including Lorenzen, who must be pitching for the Lake Baikal Sharks of the Siberian League, doesn't offer me much optimism based on that seems to be a completely inept dugout staff. They didn't even know how to lodge an appeal on a fielding play last night!

Getting 4 hits against the Phils -- hey, it happens, but it showed that there's almost no attention paid to a scouting report. They saw this guy a month ago.

 

[eburg5000]

I just retired, well about a year ago, but I have nothing else to do except stay somewhat interested. I wonder if by the time July rolls around if I will be the only one post here. I hope not. I can only ramble for so long

 

[JohnU]

Adleman pitches FIVE FUCKING INNINGS.

 

[JohnU]

Cotham again, Ramirez again ...

Somsen ... the guy who Price forgot.

What a fucking piece of work.

 

[Hit-n-Run]

I think our interest is greater than the Reds deserve at this point. But I will continue to attend home games when I can and watch/ listen to road games.

 

[chico ruiz]

i've kept a great deal of my thoughts to myself. anyone that has been reading this board, with any frequency, knows why. i -like my board colleague h-n-r- will continue to watch and be interested in the cincinnati reds. it's in my blood. for the most part, you can't grow up in cincinnati and not be interested or care. in my case, that means forever. reds games are the first thing i look at in any media form. i follow all the reds farm teams. i want to know how many pitches travieso threw for pensacola. i'm very interested in mella's development. i know that moscot threw 5 innings / 69 pitches today v. columbus. i want to know more about tyler mahle. garrett and davis still have era's of 1.5. i want to know why tyler stephenson isn't hitting better at dayton. yes, i'm interested. as you may have noticed from past posts, i'm interested in the entire organization. i find nothing surprising in the 2016 reds performance thus far. maybe that's partly why i won't be dissuaded from being a devoted reds fan or goaded into disparaging the young relievers who find themselves on the 25-man shakedown roster of the 2016 cincinnati reds.

there is too much extremism on this board, and too little documentation, citing, or applicable resource.

 

[JohnU]

there is too much extremism on this board, and too little documentation, citing, or applicable resource.

The extremism relates to the fact that all these wonderful metrics from the minor leagues don't mean a fucking thing to me.

But it is nice to know that you have self-evaluated yourself as some sort of fan while assuming that the rest of us are apparently not fans.

 

[eburg5000]

I've been a Reds fan all my life. I check the box scores almost every day. And I watch most of the games. Applicable Resource, ?? All I know. pitch the ball, hit the ball, catch the ball. I played a lot of ball in my life growing up, and love the game.
It seems to me that a lot of fans today, want to make a science out of this, I guess because of fantasy baseball, which I deplore. But for the most part I keep that to myself. I don't call others out on this board. I consider myself probably the least educated on this board. At least with the regulars.
Anyway yes when the Reds do something or make a move that I think is bullshit I get emotional or pissed off.

 

[Hit-n-Run]

I don't remember not being a Reds fan and for that matter a Cincinnati fan. I love the city and it's history and the Reds are very much apart of that fabric.

I'd say everyone on this board is a devoted fan or they wouldn't be posting. Whether you live in close proximity, or grew up here, or whatever your tie to the Reds is, everyone is a fan of the team or they wouldn't be reading this.

There's only so much that can be written about the team's plan and it's progression. It's a slow and drawn out process. There are many things that are relevant to the process. How many layers of the onion you want unpeeled is your personal preference.

 

[JohnU]

I think there's some ongoing belief that the thimbles that the Cubs, Royals, Pirates and Astros moved around somehow came as the result of genius instead of years of failure.

Cincy's current problem is a lack of quality pitching ... that's basically the end of the critique. What compounds the problem is -- IMO -- bad dugout management. Yeah, yeah ... can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit.

This team could be a .490 team this year instead of a .390 team.

I don't know that I want to settle for that at any point, but having a chance to win was generally what Reds fans learned to accept from 1950 onward until the miracle years. Since then, we revert to our history.

My first Reds experience was 1955, and I can remember a LF named Jim Greengrass and a pitcher named Herm Wehmeyer. Not exactly hall of famers.

Reds used to pick up guys from anywhere they could, usually old dudes who had gained some margin of stardom for a minute or more -- Walt Dropo, Dee Fondy, Don Newcombe. By the time they came to Crosley, they were 38 years old, recovering from something, and basically just living off their name. Reds even had Billy Martin for a season. Whitey Lockman, Harvey Haddix .... lord lord ... some of the players ....

We kept listening to Waite Hoyt and Pat Moran and knew that someday our boat would arrive.

1961.

We will get there again. But if this franchise is happy with losing, they will find a fan base much harder to obtain and retain.

 

[chico ruiz]

you guys can't be that thin-skinned. you want to really get insulted? just turn on your television. your intelligence will be questioned within 2 minutes or less. johnny picked out one sentence and turned into one of his weirdly perceived personal attacks, or whatever they are. nothing could be further from the truth. there has been a uptick in knee-jerk criticisms on the board and i mentioned it. end of story. i hope you guys can see what john is trying to do here and just ignore it.

i was speaking to general tone and tenor, not anyone's fanhood. i know you're a reds fan ol' johnny boy. less reaction and more reflection of what the 2016 reds honestly are -and what expectations are legitimate- was the thrust of my post. in short, more thoughtful discourse is what i was calling for. for instance, h-n-r posted a well articulated assessment of pitching to the shift. it was insightful. he also mentioned how the opposition was nevertheless still pitching in & out. he continued with how the reds hitters were still trying to pull and how that affected the outcome of the game and series. that's a nuanced non-metric observation of the game. conversely, another post claims price is an idiot. well, what sphere of idiocy does price reside in? is he not trying to play match-ups with his bullpen? if not, who should he have brought in and why? which of the relievers is successful against left handed batters? who throws a splitter or effective change? h-n-r knows and has mentioned it in numerous posts. how many times in a week can price bring that pitcher in? this is a good year for price to make mistakes. a lot of them are learning on the job. some will be around next year & 2018. most will not. but, i think it's fair to say half of the reds pitching staff are fringe mlb players that their previous teams (organizations) did not have want or need for. you have to, at least, partially assess price based on that. seriously, could alston, mauch, larussa, mcgraw, or anderson do better? price could start drinking heavily and do a raging full-on billy martin imitation and pick names out of a hat.

the subject of the thread (looking ahead) that johnny started, and i was cursed at for addressing, was the majority of my post. there are a lot of things that 2016 will reveal about the reds. it will be a processed purging that will produce a better team in 2017 and competitive relevance by 2018-19. there are things to be excited about organizationally. it's just going to be a few years before they come to fruition. the key for the reds will be which of the young starters they deem untouchables and how they develop. because, like it or not, the strength of the organization is the young pitching on the farms. whether that is perception or reality can be argued. there are no metrics needed. it is factually what the reds have mostly invested in, and will dictate their level of success going forward.

btw, i didn't mention metrics, just a few box score stats.

 

[JohnU]

I'd settle for some capital letters at the start of a sentence. Seriously, that isn't difficuit.

T his is a capital letter.

 

[JohnU]

And now it is time to end this ridiculous pissing match.

 

[eburg5000]

Not upset at anyone on this board. I also enjoy reading everyone's opinion, whether I agree or not. I haven't read anything on this board as long as I have been here that I thought was just plain stupid. I also think the reason for that is Just about all of us have been fans for at least 20 years, And that is being conservative. I know with John, 1507, and myself its been at least twice that.

 

[Hit-n-Run]

I think everyone on this board is at least 60, which means we've probably forgotten more than we remember.

We've seen some great baseball over the years and we've survived some tough seasons. Heres to hoping we all see at least 20 more.

 

[Hit-n-Run]

Would be nice if at least one of them ended with a celebration at Fountain Square.

 

[JohnU]

Gotta make post-season. After that, take your chances. Winning the WS is either harder now than ever or easier now than ever.

 

[eburg5000]

Hit n Run, I was thinking that you and Chico were around 45 - 50, Not sure way, but just did

 

[Hit-n-Run]

I'll take it as a compliment Eburg.

If you saw how long it takes me to type a post on this smart phone.... you'd think I was 100. Don't know how the kids do it.

 

[chico ruiz]

i'm 56 eburg. earliest fully conscious reds memory? gary nolan striking out willie mays 4 times at crosley june '67.' gary had a lot of gas at 19 years old. this story just came back to me after reading the previous posts. i've got to share it with you old fellas. a rejoinder that's sort of humorous. some of you know what i do for a living. part of what i do includes working with crews of all sizes. it demands that, for the most part, we all get along and create a work environment with equanimity. a couple of years ago a new producer (fyi - the 'producer' moniker is a nebulous title that people use, who may or may not have actually produced anything) was on site and talking to me and my colleagues in a patronizing and smug fashion. shrugging his shoulders, sighing deeply, and rolling his eyes to signify his displeasure and impatience with a crew of seasoned pros. we found out later he knew somebody, who knew somebody. anyway, i'm setting and he's barking at me about cable runs or something. union guy 'tommy' hears this, comes over, and gives this glorified production assistant (i'll call him jimmy juice) an earful. anyway, jimmy starts backpedaling with a quickness and says he's afflicted with obsessive compulsive disorder. tommy says (i remember it almost verbatim), "o.c.d. doesn't absolve you from being an asshole. i hear you talking like that again - to any of my guys - and job be damned, you and me are gonna go! you understand what i'm saying to you? nod your fuckin head, twitch, or use whatever tick you have, to let me know you understand." juice let out some kind of monosyllabic grunt and took off for one of the production trucks. i think he may have soiled himself, but i could never prove it. anyway, and here comes the punchline, the next day juice slithers up to me and tommy and mumbles something along the lines of being sorry about the pissing contest yesterday. tommy gets almost as angry as he was the previous day. his eyes get squinty, his brow furrows, and he says, "what are you talking about? you're the only one with his prick in his hands." i write fast and post. i don't have a lot of down time. in fact, very little.