Leah Remini: Scientology and the Aftermath

[Lumen]

Why is Branch Davidian considered a cult why Christianity is considered a religion?

Not that complicated, but you're not very informed on the definition of cult now are you? You can start with Rickross.com

Christianity is nothing more than a cult with legs.

[/quote]
Not really, Humanism is quite a bit closer to a cult, since one of the signs of a cult is being intentionally dishonest about what one's beliefs are until people get in the door, like Scientology claiming to be a "self-help" movement up-front, then only revealing the things about Xenu once you've already invested time and money.

Most humanist organizations just brand themselves as "Atheism" such as American atheists, then when you actually invest time in them, you learn they're actually a fringe belief system which essentially worships some quack ideology invented by a dimwit named Auguste Comte after the French revoluton:

Religion of Humanity - Wikipedia

 

[chf]

Why is Branch Davidian considered a cult why Christianity is considered a religion?

Christianity is nothing more than a cult with legs.

If memory serves (it's been a few decades since sociology and anthro), the difference IS exactly the number of people who worship. And time. Successful cults eventually become religions.

Not to mention all the schisms, offshoots, sub-religions etc. Why do Christians get to disavow the Westboro Baptists?

At any rate, I probably should be clearer here, I'm mostly playing Devil's advocate. If people use religion as a tool to navigate their lives, who am I to gainsay that? Religion CAN be a powerful force for good in people's lives.

But then if I don't get to decide, then why does anyone else?

Logically only one religion can be 'correct,' but to me, it doesn't matter if they're correct or not. They're stories that people tell, to give them strength to navigate all the shit that life routinely throws at us.

And yeah, if you hold my feet to the fire, Scientology isn't a shining light of belief. But then again, neither are a LOT of Christians. If a guy like Benny Hinn gets hit by a bus tomorrow, I'm not losing any sleep over it. Let's not bother going down the fundy Islam road.

Heh,

I just realized what morning it is....

Merry Christmas to all!

 

[Lumen]

If memory serves (it's been a few decades since sociology and anthro), the difference IS exactly the number of people who worship. And time. Successful cults eventually become religions.

Must be why Humanists are still denying their belief system and refusing to identify as anything other than "atheist" in public - in spite of their Humanist Churches and Chaplains who have tax exempt status, and the forefather of the faith itself admitting it's a secular religion.

Their statement of faith can be read right here:

Affirmations of Humanism - Council for Secular Humanism

Not to mention all the schisms, offshoots, sub-religions etc. Why do Christians get to disavow the Westboro Baptists?

At any rate, I probably should be clearer here, I'm mostly playing Devil's advocate. If people use religion as a tool to navigate their lives, who am I to gainsay that? Religion CAN be a powerful force for good in people's lives.

But then if I don't get to decide, then why does anyone else?

Logically only one religion can be 'correct,' but to me, it doesn't matter if they're correct or not. They're stories that people tell, to give them strength to navigate all the shit that life routinely throws at us.

I don't consider all religons equal, I consider humanism one of the worst and way more dangerous than Christianity or even moderate Islam.

Basically it's just some Sci-Fi cult for secularists who believe some guy named Auguste Comte somehow is the only man with all of the right answers, and believes based on blind faith that corporate-produced technology will lead us to some Star Trek like Utopia.

Right up there with Scientology in terms of lunacy if you ask me.

 

[DragonfromTO]

So who gets to decide which belief system gets put on the 'chopping block?'

You?

Why are you qualified?

I don't speak for the person that you're responding to, but my problems with/objections to Scientology is not at all about what they believe, but what they do.

 

[chf]

Must be why Humanists are still denying their belief system and refusing to identify as anything other than "atheist" in public - in spite of their Humanist Churches and Chaplains who have tax exempt status, and the forefather of the faith itself admitting it's a secular religion.

Their statement of faith can be read right here:

Affirmations of Humanism - Council for Secular Humanism


I don't consider all religons equal, I consider humanism one of the worst and way more dangerous than Christianity or even moderate Islam.

Basically it's just some Sci-Fi cult for secularists who believe some guy named Auguste Comte somehow is the only man with all of the right answers, and believes based on blind faith that corporate-produced technology will lead us to some Star Trek like Utopia.

Right up there with Scientology in terms of lunacy if you ask me.

Meh, have fun with your bogeyman. I've never been in the warm embrace of organized religion, have NOTHING against those that do, so long as they keep their noses out of my business. I have no 'belief,' in science, because science isn't something that requires faith.

If I step out of a 10th floor window, I'm going to fall, I don't need to BELIEVE that I'll fall, and my belief or non belief has nothing to do with my falling, and the inevitable consequences of that fall.

I have no idea who the hell Auguste Comte is, he has no relevancy to my life, or any of my family or friend's lives.

Sci-fi cult? Am I shaving my head, and dressing like all my fellow cultists? Chanting in airports? Oh, you mean I'm living my life, and aware that if I'm sick I should probably go to a doctor, that's my 'sci-fi cult?' Yeah, if that's your assertion, then guilty as charged.

I don't believe that 'corporate based technology' will lead to utopia. Any human endeavor is just that a HUMAN endeavor, and if we achieve some subjective definition of 'utopia,' it would be by working towards that with any tools at our disposal, INCLUDING religion and science.

If you want to make an argument that as a society we've gotten our priorities skewed, then I think I'd be willing to listen. The above though sounds like weak-minded blather that anyone could copy/paste from conspiracy sites.

My outlook can be summed up pretty nicely in this borrowed text.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

 

[chf]

I don't speak for the person that you're responding to, but my problems with/objections to Scientology is not at all about what they believe, but what they do.

And as I noted, I'm certainly not championing scientology.

 

[R.J. MacReady]

I will be happy if they just end the tax exemption.

 

[chf]

Not that complicated, but you're not very informed on the definition of cult now are you? You can start with Rickross.com



Not really, Humanism is quite a bit closer to a cult, since one of the signs of a cult is being intentionally dishonest about what one's beliefs are until people get in the door, like Scientology claiming to be a "self-help" movement up-front, then only revealing the things about Xenu once you've already invested time and money.

Most humanist organizations just brand themselves as "Atheism" such as American atheists, then when you actually invest time in them, you learn they're actually a fringe belief system which essentially worships some quack ideology invented by a dimwit named Auguste Comte after the French revoluton:

Religion of Humanity - Wikipedia

Invest in atheism? Wtf?

I don't really consider myself an atheist, but I CERTAINLY have never been asked to put any money towards atheism.

Again, sounds like bogeymen under your bed.


Booga-booga!

 

[Lumen]

Invest in Humanism? Wtf?

Fixed, thanks for proving my point about cults, such as Humanism trying to deny what it is despite its own statement of faith available for reading online, and simply identifying as atheism, rather than it's actual belief system

I don't really consider myself an atheist, but I CERTAINLY have never been asked to put any money towards Humanism.

Again, sounds like bogeymen under your bed.


Booga-booga!

Nice try...

 

[DragonfromTO]

And as I noted, I'm certainly not championing scientology.

I wasn't suggesting that you were, I was simply trying to give an answer to your question.

 

[chf]

Fixed, thanks for proving my point about cults, such as Humanism trying to deny what it is despite its own statement of faith available for reading online, and simply identifying as atheism, rather than it's actual belief system

Nice try...

I have no interest in reading screeds of linked stuff. If you care to actually articulate your own thoughts on the subject, I'll gladly read and consider.

I've never been asked to contribute to HUMANISM either.

The Salvation Army? Yes. United Way? Yes.

The Humanist League? Nope. Please articulate in your own words, where humanists are asking people for money.

 

[Lumen]

Meh, have fun with your bogeyman. I've never been in the warm embrace of organized religion, have NOTHING against those that do, so long as they keep their noses out of my business.

You have belief in Humanism, so that would be a lie.

I have no 'belief,' in science, because science isn't something that requires faith.

Of course you don't, because Humanism isn't science and is an nonscientific belief system, it just claims to be "based on science" much like Scientology:

Council for Secular Humanism

• We believe that scientific discovery and technology can contribute to the betterment of human life.

If I step out of a 10th floor window, I'm going to fall, I don't need to BELIEVE that I'll fall, and my belief or non belief has nothing to do with my falling, and the inevitable consequences of that fall.

That has nothing to do with your Humanist ideology's statement of faith.

I have no idea who the hell Auguste Comte is, he has no relevancy to my life, or any of my family or friend's lives.

You don't even know who the founder of your belief system is? That's a bit disconcerting.

Sci-fi cult? Am I shaving my head, and dressing like all my fellow cultists? Chanting in airports? Oh, you mean I'm living my life, and aware that if I'm sick I should probably go to a doctor, that's my 'sci-fi cult?' Yeah, if that's your assertion, then guilty as charged.

The statement of the religion's beliefs is available above. Stop playing coy like so many cults do about what your beliefs are - their statement of faith is not "belief in science", it's completely-fleshed out and 'claims' to be based on science, but no evidence is required, just blindly accepting the Humanist statement of faith.

I don't believe that 'corporate based technology' will lead to utopia. Any human endeavor is just that a HUMAN endeavor, and if we achieve some subjective definition of 'utopia,' it would be by working towards that with any tools at our disposal, INCLUDING religion and science.

That's not what your statement of faith says.

If you want to make an argument that as a society we've gotten our priorities skewed, then I think I'd be willing to listen. The above though sounds like weak-minded blather that anyone could copy/paste from conspiracy sites.

My outlook can be summed up pretty nicely in this borrowed text.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

Your statements on this website about your beliefs and political views seem to contradict this, and seem to be pretty much identical to those listed on the Humanist statement of faith.

 

[chf]

I wasn't suggesting that you were, I was simply trying to give an answer to your question.

Right I get that, but people object to Benny Hinn taking old ladies welfare money too (an action) or the Westboro Baptists picketing soldier's funerals, (an action).

So who gets to decide which are religions and which aren't?

 

[Lumen]

I have no interest in reading screeds of linked stuff. If you care to actually articulate your own thoughts on the subject, I'll gladly read and consider.

I've never been asked to contribute to HUMANISM either.

The Salvation Army? Yes. United Way? Yes.

The Humanist League? Nope. Please articulate in your own words, where humanists are asking people for money.

Your beliefs that you've expressed about politics and religion seem to come word for word from the Humanist ideology.

Just because you don't go to a Humanist Church doesn't mean you don't share their beliefs.

 

[chf]

You have belief in Humanism, so that would be a lie.


Of course you don't, because Humanism isn't science and is an nonscientific belief system, it just claims to be "based on science" much like Scientology:

Council for Secular Humanism

• We believe that scientific discovery and technology can contribute to the betterment of human life.

That has nothing to do with your Humanist ideology's statement of faith.


You don't even know who the founder of your belief system is? That's a bit disconcerting.


The statement of the religion's beliefs is available above. Stop playing coy like so many cults do about what your beliefs are - their statement of faith is not "belief in science", it's completely-fleshed out and 'claims' to be based on science, but no evidence is required, just blindly accepting the Humanist statement of faith.


That's not what your statement of faith says.


Your statements on this website about your beliefs and political views seem to contradict this, and seem to be pretty much identical to those listed on the Humanist statement of faith.

Okay, this seems to be devolving into some weird game of gotcha really really fast. Why are you speaking about my belief systems? Why are you putting words in my mouth?

I believe that blowjobs are nice, and that cold pizza is almost as good as the stuff out of the oven. Any whopping generalizations you want to make on my ethics based on those BELIEFS?

Why do I care what some random website says about secular humanists? Why do you?

'Playing coy?'

Are you high?

 

[chf]

Your beliefs that you've expressed about politics and religion seem to come word for word from the Humanist ideology.

Just because you don't go to a Humanist Church doesn't mean you don't share their beliefs.

I share beliefs about all kinds of things with other humans. Kinda goes with the definition.

'Seem to come?'

That's strong!

 

[DragonfromTO]

Had a freaky "holy shit!" moment watching last night's episode. I was a sophomore at MIT, sitting on my girlfriend's window ledge when Phil Gale jumped out of the Green Building. One of the loudest things I've ever heard. Such a sad story. I was so impressed with/by his sister last night.

'Leah Remini: Scientology and the Aftermath' Season 2, Episode 3

 

[WayfaringStranger]

Going Clear is a great documentary if anyone is interested.

 

[SDGuy73]

Had a freaky "holy shit!" moment watching last night's episode. I was a sophomore at MIT, sitting on my girlfriend's window ledge when Phil Gale jumped out of the Green Building. One of the loudest things I've ever heard. Such a sad story. I was so impressed with/by his sister last night.

'Leah Remini: Scientology and the Aftermath' Season 2, Episode 3

I watch this show. I remember hearing about the suicide at MIT. Never knew the cause. It's mind boggling how fucked up Scientology is.

 

[DragonfromTO]

I watch this show. I remember hearing about the suicide at MIT. Never knew the cause. It's mind boggling how fucked up Scientology is.

I wondered at the time why there wasn't really any talk about the Scientology angle, but I was young and didn't really know the full extent of their lawsuits and legal harassment tactics. But they were right there in the Back Bay at the time, smack dab in the middle of all of the fraternity houses (they've moved since then).