Joe Barry hired.

[Sharkinva]

Something tells me you are getting a kick out of this. lol
You might have a bit of contrarian in you Shark.

Well you got to admit, after a solid month of being told no one we hired could be worse than Haslett, this would be funny in a sad kinda of way.

 

[kbso83432]

Chris Russell says no decision has been made. Sorry about the thread title. We'll see.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Well you got to admit, after a solid month of being told no one we hired could be worse than Haslett, this would be funny in a sad kinda of way.

How did I know you were going to play this card? Look Haz had to go. Because they probably botched the replacement hire does not change the fact that Haz was not very good and should have been fired.

 

[Sharkinva]

How did I know you were going to play this card? Look Haz had to go. Because they probably botched the replacement hire does not change the fact that Haz was not very good and should have been fired.

I have said all along, you dont fire a guy without having a better replacement lined up. Now there is zero argument that can be made to say Barry is a better DC than Haz. And like I said, I was told numerous times that any one we got would be better than Haz. So if we do make the Barry hire, the defense better be much better or this just goes down as a scape goat firing.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

They keep saying this is Jay's hire but how can we not conclude that it has Bruce's fingerprints all over it? Another in a long list of Tampa connections. Allen kept Haz before Gruden was hired, he kept Blache before Zorn was hired too. It's what he does.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

I have said all along, you dont fire a guy without having a better replacement lined up. Now there is zero argument that can be made to say Barry is a better DC than Haz. And like I said, I was told numerous times that any one we got would be better than Haz. So if we do make the Barry hire, the defense better be much better or this just goes down as a scape goat firing.

We don't know that Barry is not a good DC. We DO know that Haz is not a good DC. You keep calling Haz "average" but his stats are not average, they are below average with a huge sample size to draw from.

 

[Sharkinva]

We don't know that Barry is not a good DC. We DO know that Haz is not a good DC. You keep calling Haz "average" but his stats are not average, they are below average with a huge sample size to draw from.

Really?? We dont know Barry was a bad DC?? His two years at it, the lions finished last back to back in defensive rankings. Yes he was the man in charge of the 0-16 defense. If Haslett was a bad DC, this guy has to be described as what exactly??

 

[martinez]

Jay, Bruce, Morris, Barry. All tampa ties. We need to really stop that shit

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Really?? We dont know Barry was a bad DC?? His two years at it, the lions finished last back to back in defensive rankings. Yes he was the man in charge of the 0-16 defense. If Haslett was a bad DC, this guy has to be described as what exactly??

A grade of incomplete. By every account he had terrible talent and he was there for all of 2 years. Haz on the other hand has a much larger body of work from which to draw a conclussion.

Look don't try to get me to start defending this hire, I hate this hire. But to argue that you keep a crappy DC just because the next guy could be worse is loser talk. You didn't seem to take that approach with RGIII.

 

[Sharkinva]

A grade of incomplete. By every account he had terrible talent and he was there for all of 2 years. Haz on the other hand has a much larger body of work from which to draw a conclussion.

Look don't try to get me to start defending this hire, I hate this hire. But to argue that you keep a crappy DC just because the next guy could be worse is loser talk. You didn't seem to take that approach with RGIII.

You are right, I didnt take that line with Bob. Because I thought he was a mistake from day one. Haslett has had marginal at best talent to work with from the day he walked into DC. IF the Barry deal goes through we have basically hired a guy who's only body of work says he isnt even average as a DC. And its not loser talk, its practicality. You dont fire a guy and then hire some one with a worse track record. Now I expect they will try and really stock the defense this year, so Barry should actually be able to hit average. But Im sorry there is no way to spin this, at the moment we fired a DC that every one wanted gone in order to bring in a DC that no one wanted.

 

[kbso83432]

Jay, Bruce, Morris, Barry. All tampa ties. We need to really stop that shit

 

[skinsdad62]

again all i am going to say is wait and see if the report is true . then i will debate the hire . my first impression is i dont like it at all . but i would still dump haslett for him

 

[obibyn]

Anyone that complains about Joe Barry's time with the Lions must not have fully examined the defensive roster at the time. It was horrid. He had no chance with that shit squad.

 

[Sharkinva]

Anyone that complains about Joe Barry's time with the Lions must not have fully examined the defensive roster at the time. It was horrid. He had no chance with that shit squad.

Thats no excuse. Good coaches make the marginal or horrid players they have better.

So sayeth the word!!

 

[obibyn]

Thats no excuse. Good coaches make the marginal or horrid players they have better.

So sayeth the word!!

Sound logic...

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Thats no excuse. Good coaches make the marginal or horrid players they have better.

So sayeth the word!!

Please show me where Haz has done this in DC. Again keeping a guy who was totally ineffective because you are afraid to fail with the next hire is a chicken shit way to run a team.

 

[Sharkinva]

Please show me where Haz has done this in DC. Again keeping a guy who was totally ineffective because you are afraid to fail with the next hire is a chicken shit way to run a team.

And thats the real disagreement here. I think Haslett has been middle of the pack for us in most cases with some horrible "talent" to work with. And I use the word talent very loosely. So the plan should have been to either grossly upgrade the coaching, the talent or both.

Now at the moment it looks like we are actually downgrading the coaching.

So lets see what they do with the talent.

You all got your pound of flesh and Haslett is gone. So this should be officially a no bitching zone about the Defense going forward.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

And thats the real disagreement here. I think Haslett has been middle of the pack for us in most cases with some horrible "talent" to work with. And I use the word talent very loosely. So the plan should have been to either grossly upgrade the coaching, the talent or both.

Now at the moment it looks like we are actually downgrading the coaching.

So lets see what they do with the talent.

You all got your pound of flesh and Haslett is gone. So this should be officially a no bitching zone about the Defense going forward.

Again you are basing the success/failure of the next DC as justification for keeping a DC who has NEVER had great defenses. If the new guy fails, and I fully expect it if this is the hire, that does not mean you keep a guy who was ineffective. I hate this hire, that does not mean I was wrong in wanting Hazmat removed if the new guy fails. I'm not letting you paint me into that corner.

Below is the list of defensive players who have shown dramatic improvement here under Haslett:










.

 

[Sharkinva]

Again you are basing the success/failure of the next DC as justification for keeping a DC who has NEVER had great defenses. If the new guy fails, and I fully expect it if this is the hire, that does not mean you keep a guy who was ineffective. I hate this hire, that does not mean I was wrong in wanting Hazmat removed if the new guy fails. I'm not letting you paint me into that corner.

Below is the list of defensive players who have shown dramatic improvement here under Haslett:


Kerrigan
Breeland
Robinson
Baker






.

Figured i would fix that for you. And again its all about expectations. I expected we would have an average to good defense dependent on the level of talent the man was given to work with. I suspect that had we kept him and given him the level of talent EQUAL to the rest of the Division (especially in the secondary) we would have had a good defense. Now even though Im not a Wade fan at all, I could understand the move. Because I will grudgingly admit it would be an upgrade. But NOTHING Barry has done indicates this is anything more than a shot in the dark and an actual step DOWN in defensive Coordinators.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

Baker was a huge disappointment this year and is solidly in the "just a guy" category. We never saw Robinson before this year but all the reports said he was good all along. Kerrigan was great as a rookie and has shown nominal improvement. Breeland obviously was a good pick, he was showing well very early in camp.

I'm talking about players who showed dramatic improvement over the years. Your only argument is Kerrigan and again he was very good from the start of his his rookie season.