Is Miami the next NCAA target? Looks like it...

[Hokie200proof]

Grad school stipends include tuition. I am not sure about room and board as I have never lived on campus but there is this big chunk of "discretionary funds" assigned to each student, so I assume that if asked, room and board would also be included. In addition, you do get a stipend (about 1600-2000 a month) to perform work (teaching, research etc...) for usually 20 recorded hours a week.

I feel like that could be the way you do this.

I'll say it again, I'm NOT for paying players... but if it's unavoidable I'd want it to be standardized for all NCAA members. You absolutely cannot have OSU's stipend be $25,000 for Pryor and have Tech only able to afford $100 per player, or have schools treating high school kids like free agents.

I think those in favor of this could make a strong case for it. A football schollie is WAY beyond what an academic scholarship demands - physical sacrifice, travel, missed holidays, on and on, in addition to maintaining a certain grade point average and number of classes. The only requirement for an academic scholarship is a minimum grade point average. However you get it (countless hours in the library, lab, etc) is up to you, but you never have to miss Christmas because your Physics advisor needs you to represent the school at a Physics fair in Tempe.

Also, many of the kids who get a sports scholarship come from very distressed economic areas, which is a large part of the reason why boosters offering money is so tempting. Read that Yahoo article about Tyrone Moss... he already had a kid! 18 years old, from a poor area from a poor family and he already has a family himself. Sure, he's made bad choices, but that's irrelevant with a crying baby on your hands. Now you need to be a provider.

Many other recruits are from very poor areas and their families can't afford even the basic necessities outside of tuition, room and board (and there are necessities beyond food, shelter and free classes). You can't expect a kid to play big-time college football AND have a part time job. I can't really blame them for taking a $100 handshake if they're getting no support from mom and dad (or just mom, or grandma) back home.

It's a tough situation all around and obviously the current system isn't working if cheating is this commonplace.

 

[EvanGWatkins]

I feel like that could be the way you do this.

I'll say it again, I'm NOT for paying players... but if it's unavoidable I'd want it to be standardized for all NCAA members. You absolutely cannot have OSU's stipend be $25,000 for Pryor and have Tech only able to afford $100 per player, or have schools treating high school kids like free agents.

I think those in favor of this could make a strong case for it. A football schollie is WAY beyond what an academic scholarship demands - physical sacrifice, travel, missed holidays, on and on, in addition to maintaining a certain grade point average and number of classes. The only requirement for an academic scholarship is a minimum grade point average. However you get it (countless hours in the library, lab, etc) is up to you, but you never have to miss Christmas because your Physics advisor needs you to represent the school at a Physics fair in Tempe.

Also, many of the kids who get a sports scholarship come from very distressed economic areas, which is a large part of the reason why boosters offering money is so tempting. Read that Yahoo article about Tyrone Moss... he already had a kid! 18 years old, from a poor area from a poor family and he already has a family himself. Sure, he's made bad choices, but that's irrelevant with a crying baby on your hands. Now you need to be a provider.

Many other recruits are from very poor areas and their families can't afford even the basic necessities outside of tuition, room and board (and there are necessities beyond food, shelter and free classes). You can't expect a kid to play big-time college football AND have a part time job. I can't really blame them for taking a $100 handshake if they're getting no support from mom and dad (or just mom, or grandma) back home.

It's a tough situation all around and obviously the current system isn't working if cheating is this commonplace.

Could never work across the board. Look at the statistics of how many college football programs operate in the black and you will be surprised that many of the schools are in debt. Take those schools that are not turning much of a profit and ask them to afford to pay their players and you will have major financial strain...

 

[Hokie200proof]

Could never work across the board. Look at the statistics of how many college football programs operate in the black and you will be surprised that many of the schools are in debt. Take those schools that are not turning much of a profit and ask them to afford to pay their players and you will have major financial strain...

Well... if the conference reshuffling continues and we're left with only four mega AQ conferences, those schools should be able to afford a program like that no problem (with new TV deals, bowl deals, etc).

Not that I want to see this happen... but I just don't know how you work with these economic, social issues to change the incentives to play fair. Right now there have been benefits to cheating smart, or at the very least, skirting the rules (see last year's title game participants).

 

[amszete]

Could never work across the board. Look at the statistics of how many college football programs operate in the black and you will be surprised that many of the schools are in debt. Take those schools that are not turning much of a profit and ask them to afford to pay their players and you will have major financial strain...

Correct. It further separates the HAVES from the HAVE NOTS. Which is why Slive and crew want such a thing under a new authoritative umbrella that is comprised fo the major D1 conferences and NOT the NCAA.

You start paying little Johnny 500 a semester at VT for a miscellaneous stipend that is given to them without working for it, you are opening a can of worms on this my friend. Whose to say that Oregon would abide by those same rules and pay 500? We all know that rules are broken now under the current system, can you imagine the hornets nest everyone will walk into if we start paying players?

And as Evan mentions, most univerisities are operating in the black already within their athletics dept, so who is to say that all univerisities could afford to pay their athletes as to stay competitive with Bama, FSU, Oregon, etc.? And which athletes do universities pay and why? Who will be monitoring this - we already know the NCAA is reactive to all of this, how do we know this new authoritative instution Slive and Delaney want will do any better? Especially since the people most likely monitoring such events will be affiliated with the schools which comprise such an institutions...

It's a stupid, stupid, stupid idea. We go down this route as Bill King put it this AM, and any remaining sliver of innocence that we all associate with cfb will be lost forever - no lie. :target:

 

[Hokie200proof]

I see your points amszete, and they're strong. As I've said, I don't support paying players, but I see the arguments and I see the problems and I know that I have no answer to either of them. Just a gut feeling that paying college athletes is wrong.

Now how about giving the Karate kid a break and unpop that collar?

 

[Chrish1023]

Not that this will surprise anyone, but Shapiro gave "bounties" for players getting excessive celebration penalties. From Devin Hester's page:

"$7,500 in bounties. The bounties were: $1,000 total for a 97-yard kickoff return for a touchdown ($500) and an ensuing celebration penalty ($500) in a 38-33 win over Florida on Sept. 6, 2003; $2,500 total for two punt returns for touchdowns ($1,000 each) and one celebration penalty ($500) in a 48-0 win over Louisiana Tech on Sept. 18, 2004; $2,000 total for two return touchdowns (including one called back by penalty) in a 41-38 win over Louisville on Oct. 14, 2004; $1,000 total for a kickoff return for a touchdown in a 45-31 win over N.C. State on Oct. 23, 2004; and $1,000 total for a missed field goal returned for a touchdown in a 27-10 win over Florida on Dec. 31, 2004."

That might just be the most U thing I've seen so far... scratch that, the abortion wins.

 

[Forty_Sixand2]

Those guys must have been hurtin for cash after their annual game with the Hokies....

 

[hunzworth]

Been out of town so basically all i know about this is what is on espn, but damn this shit is crazy. I mean i think most people kinda figured UM was dirty, but i doubt many expected they were doing all of this. I guess this is the story that "would blow everyones mind" that we've been hearing about.

Sidenote: IMO if we see multiple teams put on long term probation, i wouldnt be a bit surprised to see them "band together" and leave the NCAA to start their own league. If teams like Miami, UNC, OH ST, AUB, BAMA, etc were to form a "conference", i dont think they'd have to hard of a time getting other (clean) teams to join them.

 

[NickVT10]

I still doubt that schools will leave the NCAA. Even if they got 20 other schools they wouldn't be able to play against the NCAA schools because I am sure the NCAA would not allow that. They would have 2 conferences? The NCAA protects (for the most part) schools especially other sports. If a school left the NCAA because they were getting punished for doing wrong, what kind of message would that send? Parents wouldn't send their kids there. Sponsors wouldn't want to be associated with that. I couldn't see clean teams jumping ship to join schools that cheated and then got away with it. Just my $.02

 

[757Hokie83]

I feel like that could be the way you do this.

I'll say it again, I'm NOT for paying players... but if it's unavoidable I'd want it to be standardized for all NCAA members. You absolutely cannot have OSU's stipend be $25,000 for Pryor and have Tech only able to afford $100 per player, or have schools treating high school kids like free agents.

the problem with this, is that even if they were to allow this...and set a standard amount across the board...we would still have the shapiros around the country doing what they do. it wouldnt stop it, probably wouldnt even slow it down

 

[757Hokie83]

Been out of town so basically all i know about this is what is on espn, but damn this shit is crazy. I mean i think most people kinda figured UM was dirty, but i doubt many expected they were doing all of this. I guess this is the story that "would blow everyones mind" that we've been hearing about.

Sidenote: IMO if we see multiple teams put on long term probation, i wouldnt be a bit surprised to see them "band together" and leave the NCAA to start their own league. If teams like Miami, UNC, OH ST, AUB, BAMA, etc were to form a "conference", i dont think they'd have to hard of a time getting other (clean) teams to join them.

according to 46, there is a bigger one out there that will be coming out soon

 

[757Hokie83]

Those guys must have been hurtin for cash after their annual game with the Hokies....

lol,,,Shapiro should have made the players pay him after those

 

[NickVT10]

"Since its founding more than 85 years ago, the University of Miami has stood for excellence in higher education in every endeavor, every degree, and every student. "
Statement from UM President. It made me laugh.

They need to find a way to hold the players legally accountable for their actions. Do you really think Devin Hester feels bad about the stuff he did at UM now? They can't do anything to him now either. The worst that can happen to current players is they get kicked out of school and most will enter the draft then. They need to make it so the players and the boosters are held accountable for their actions where it actually hurts. These future NFL prospects are given the time of their life with no major repercussions; do you think they are going to turn that down especially with the atmosphere of a lot of these schools?

 

[NickVT10]

according to 46, there is a bigger one out there that will be coming out soon

I can't imagine one much bigger than this... The other one include players involved in murders, organized crime and smuggling???

 

[EvanGWatkins]

according to 46, there is a bigger one out there that will be coming out soon

Correct

 

[vtpoop]

Don't have the link, but just read an article in the New York Times with NCAA officials saying the death penalty and television bans are not even being discussed in the Miami case. Not that I thought they would, but how else is the NCAA going to send a message that this kind of debauchery will not be tolerated? That is, unless they are considering a long-term bowl ban (5-7 years).

 

[EvanGWatkins]

Don't have the link, but just read an article in the New York Times with NCAA officials saying the death penalty and television bans are not even being discussed in the Miami case. Not that I thought they would, but how else is the NCAA going to send a message that this kind of debauchery will not be tolerated? That is, unless they are considering a long-term bowl ban (5-7 years).

They are only 5 months into the investigation so they probably are not talking ANY sanctions until all facts are presented...

 

[Big Red Said]

Don't have the link, but just read an article in the New York Times with NCAA officials saying the death penalty and television bans are not even being discussed in the Miami case. Not that I thought they would, but how else is the NCAA going to send a message that this kind of debauchery will not be tolerated? That is, unless they are considering a long-term bowl ban (5-7 years).

There are rumblings of Miami being stripped of their athletic participation as a whole and going strictly to an academia institution... Some are suggesting with all the problems they are having and have had over the past decade... they self impose this...

Don't think it will happen but... with all the shit going on.. who knows...

 

[NickVT10]

The NCAA will need to hammer them to something we have never seen before. The death penalty would be justifiable but unlikely due to money, tv contracts, and scheduling issues. The next step would be tv bans(unlikely again). After that just a longer period of bowl bans and scholarship reductions. Like stated above, 5-7 years of bowl bans plus 15-20 scholarships taken away for 5-7 years is the only thing I could think of. IMO, they need to cripple the program to set an example. Also include a clause that any infraction afterward would warrant the DP.

 

[vtpoop]

They are only 5 months into the investigation so they probably are not talking ANY sanctions until all facts are presented...

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/18/s...-over-miami.html?pagewanted=2&_r=3&ref=sports

"But Julie Roe Lach, the N.C.A.A.’s vice president for enforcement, said in an interview Wednesday that there had been little discussion about reviving harsh penalties like television bans or the so-called death penalty, two punishments once used by the N.C.A.A. that have long been shelved."