If the Mariners really want to go on a playoff run...

[seahawksfan234]

They need to add a hitter, preferably two.

There is no excuse for this lack of offense, the Mariners have been connected to starting pitching, however the production from the Mariners #5 has been relatively decent the past few starts and I have to imagine that Walker is not far away.

To quote a post from SeattleCoug in the other thread:

Welp the M's starting pitching has posted a 0.76 ERA the last 7 games and have gone 3-4. Awesome.

Our starting pitching couldn't be any better, if the Mariners had even a mediocre offense they would be winning more games. But in reality, our offense is terrible and we will struggle to keep our necks above .500 while we have Endy Chavez, Dustin Ackley, Justin Smoak, Logan Morrison and Stefen Romero as regular contributors.

The Mariners have so many holes in the lineup to fill it shouldn't be hard for Jack to find at least one or two hitters that would be a serious upgrade over the massively incompetent players we are sending out there right now.

We can't just sit back and cross our fingers that Smoak suddenly learns how to hit, or that Corey Hart jumps in a time machine and becomes his 2010 self again.

Being passive will not get the Mariners into the playoffs. We currently have one of MLB's best rotations and best bullpens, if the Mariners could be at least mediocre at the plate we could have a shot at a wild card birth.

 

[cezero]

5 felix's in the rotation can't make up for the offensive deficits on this team enough for the word "playoffs" to induce anything but laughter for anybody who knows anything about baseball.

i got lambasted by some morons when i dared say this back when the m's were 5 games over .500, which was, and always will be, a gigantic anomaly for a team this bad.

 

[seahawksfan234]

5 felix's in the rotation can't make up for the offensive deficits on this team enough for the word "playoffs" to induce anything but laughter for anybody who knows anything about baseball.

i got lambasted by some morons when i dared say this back when the m's were 5 games over .500, which was, and always will be, a gigantic anomaly for a team this bad.

The Mariners have a phenomenal pitching staff from the rotation down to the bullpen. We are 2nd in the American league in team ERA, which is why I think the Mariners could make the playoffs if they managed to even field a mediocre offense. That being said, our current lineup is garbage, I think we will all agree with that. Right now the only players the Mariners have out there who belong starting on a MLB team are: Robinson Cano, Kyle Seager, James Jones and Mike Zunino. The rest are replacement level players, or worse.

As the team is currently I believe it would finish around .500, give or take a few games. But if the Mariners managed to add an above average hitter and another average or at least decent hitter, we could have a team that could push for the playoffs.

I don't believe we are that far away from being a wildcard contending team.

 

[seahawksfan234]

Some guys the Mariners could consider:

Seth Smith: He is currently hitting .289/.392/.495 with 6 HRs and 21 RBIs. He is not a spectacular player, but he is having a solid season and would be a vast improvement from Dustin Ackley. He is hitting .348 in Petco Park. Seems to do better in the NL, but seems to be more patient at the plate and gets on base at a good clip.

Josh Willingham: He is 35 and had a mendoza line special last year with a .208 BA in 111 games with only 14 HRs. Seems to have improved this year as he is hitting .266/.413/.511 with 6 HRs in 30 games. Couldn't be too expensive considering his age, but as with the next player I mention, the Twins may not be looking to sell.

Kendrys Morales: Boy wouldn't it be ironic if he got shipped back to Seattle? This would be contingent on the Twins willing to be sellers at the deadline, but when the Twins signed Morales I speculated that it was under the notion of trading him at the deadline. We know that Morales is good for a .280 average and 20 HRs over a 160 game span and he is a guy that I really wanted the Mariners to bring back.

Ben Zobrist: Has primarily played 2B, but could be plugged into SS to replace Brad Miller who has been improving but is still hitting sub .200.

James Loney: He's a guy I've liked for a while, always felt he was underrated. Loney is not a top of the line 1B, but he is good for .270-.300 and 10-15HRs over the course of a season, which would be a vast improvement over the Smoak, Morrison, Bloomquist, Montero rotation at 1B.

Dexter Fowler: Not sure the Astros would trade him within the division, but he is another underrated player who gets the job done.

Carlos Quentin: He is having a bad year and could probably be had on the cheap. At this point it is not the ideal move due to how poorly he is hitting, but perhaps DHing could do him some good. Quentin can still swing the bat, as evidenced by the 29 HRs 90 RBI and .268/.368/.498 slash line he had between 2012-2013 over the course of 168 games (86 in 2012, 82 in 2013).

 

[SeattleCoug]

Realistically its about the budget. Will the front office ever open the wallets enough? Not sure what it will take. Maybe the fact that they are last in the AL in Batting Average, On Base Percentage and Slugging Percentage will motivate them to do something but its doubtful.

So with the budget issue, all the eggs are put into the developing talent internally basket which hasn't panned out. Looking at AAA and AA there isnt alot to look forward to in the next year or so in terms of talent coming up offensively. The only real decent prospects seem to be guys like DJ Peterson and Austin Wilson who are still a few years away. By that time Cano and Felix will be reaching the end of their good years and we will be building again.

 

[PolarVortex]

They need to add a hitter, preferably two.

There is no excuse for this lack of offense, the Mariners have been connected to starting pitching, however the production from the Mariners #5 has been relatively decent the past few starts and I have to imagine that Walker is not far away.

To quote a post from SeattleCoug in the other thread:



Our starting pitching couldn't be any better, if the Mariners had even a mediocre offense they would be winning more games. But in reality, our offense is terrible and we will struggle to keep our necks above .500 while we have Endy Chavez, Dustin Ackley, Justin Smoak, Logan Morrison and Stefen Romero as regular contributors.

The Mariners have so many holes in the lineup to fill it shouldn't be hard for Jack to find at least one or two hitters that would be a serious upgrade over the massively incompetent players we are sending out there right now.

We can't just sit back and cross our fingers that Smoak suddenly learns how to hit, or that Corey Hart jumps in a time machine and becomes his 2010 self again.

Being passive will not get the Mariners into the playoffs. We currently have one of MLB's best rotations and best bullpens, if the Mariners could be at least mediocre at the plate we could have a shot at a wild card birth.

234, you are right of course. But we all know they are not going to get a bat that will have any true value for the remainder of this season. They may get another guy or two for organizational depth, who can go to Tacoma for a month and then come up the team and have a Cole Gillespie type role. But to expect them to get someone like Marlon Byrd or Ben Zobrist or Matt Kemp or whoever else may be one of the better hitters available - that is not going to happen. When was the last time they did that? Mark Hittin Witten? Al Whadduhfuckingjoke Martin? This ownership group does not do this. They never have and they never will, especially now with a lame duck GM.

 

[Mariners_44]

We're Fucked!

 

[mcnabb7542]

We're Fucked!

No were not.....

They need Saunders back and Smoak, sure there not the missing link, but they do add something to the lineup, Jones leading off and Saunders right behind him can create a nightmare for opposing teams and we've seen some of that. Smoak needs to drop down to 5th in the order, let Seg's hit behind Cano, I know that some don't see Seg's as a legit clean up guy, but rules of engagement are out the window at the moment, he's a contact hitter, and with Cano's speed, your top three hitters like to run and steal bases, keeping the game in motion at all times...

As for a DH, yes they need to find a big bat, someone that can hit 275 and drive in some runs, Hart to me was a stupid signing, that was Jackie boy hoping he could rekindle Hart's magic years..

I believe they have the skipper to lead this team, love what Lloyd has been doing, ( did you hear his interview the other day about lard ass Montero?) It was awesome...

Nobody is really running away with this thing, sure A's but the wild cards are still wide open, a young team that needs to feel just once what it's like to be playing in October, changes younger guys approach and there thoughts about the game in general....

 

[SeattleCoug]

You bring up some good points.

I am out of patience with Smoak even though he is the best option on the current team. I think the first wave of Jack Z's prospects are what they are now. I consider those guys Ackley, Smoak, Montero, Seagar in Saunders. I think I feel comfortable saying Seagar is a success and Montero is a bust. Ackley and Smoak are likely just role players rather then capable starters. Saunders has shown flashes but either cant stay healthy or gets stuck in a bad slump.

The next wave is guys like Zunino, Miller, Franklin and Almonte. All have seen early success followed by slumps. Miller and Zunino look to be fighting throught it where as Franklin and Almonte haven't yet. I haven't given up on any of those 4 yet because they all have only around a year of big league experience or less under their belt.

The last wave is guys like Jones, Paxton and Walker who have had a slight taste of big league experience and our just getting their feet wet. We will see if Paxton can make it back at all this year.

Outside of that I don't see what the organization has in terms of major prospects the next couple of years unless a guy like Ty Kelly or Jabari Blash surprises. Likely need to spend $$ or get lucky in a trade to make something happen.

 

[Mariners_44]

Jones leading off and Saunders right behind him can create a nightmare for opposing teams and we've seen some of that.

If our lineup starts as such:

James Jones
Michael Saunders
Robinson Cano
Kyle Seagar

Then we have something going, but the likelihood of this staying in tact due to health is somewhat slim. Otherwise, I like what we have going there.

 

[mcnabb7542]

You bring up some good points.

I am out of patience with Smoak even though he is the best option on the current team. I think the first wave of Jack Z's prospects are what they are now. I consider those guys Ackley, Smoak, Montero, Seagar in Saunders. I think I feel comfortable saying Seagar is a success and Montero is a bust. Ackley and Smoak are likely just role players rather then capable starters. Saunders has shown flashes but either cant stay healthy or gets stuck in a bad slump.

The next wave is guys like Zunino, Miller, Franklin and Almonte. All have seen early success followed by slumps. Miller and Zunino look to be fighting throught it where as Franklin and Almonte haven't yet. I haven't given up on any of those 4 yet because they all have only around a year of big league experience or less under their belt.

The last wave is guys like Jones, Paxton and Walker who have had a slight taste of big league experience and our just getting their feet wet. We will see if Paxton can make it back at all this year.

Outside of that I don't see what the organization has in terms of major prospects the next couple of years unless a guy like Ty Kelly or Jabari Blash surprises. Likely need to spend $$ or get lucky in a trade to make something happen.

I'm not saying my patients with Smoak are still there, there not, I'm ready for him to take it to the next level. I also do believe he is one of the better or top three defensively at 1st. The Bone was on the radio the other day talking about Smoak's ability at first and believes he is a great defensive player but its time for his bat to equal out his ability.......


I'm not cashing the season in yet, lot of games left and teams do go cold and hot, besides Cezero is waiting in the wings for the M's to crap out to throw it back in my face for telling him it ain't over yet!

 

[Mariners_44]

The Bone was on the radio the other day talking about Smoak's ability at first and believes he is a great defensive player but its time for his bat to equal out his ability.......

It's starting to remind me of the Brendan Ryan experiment, although his bat was far worse by the time he left. His defense was so good that it kind of formed wool over the eyes in the beginning, but over time the D wasn't enough to keep him in the game. Smoak does have a little better bat going for him, but before long his defense won't be enough.

 

[SeattleCoug]

I'm not saying my patients with Smoak are still there, there not, I'm ready for him to take it to the next level. I also do believe he is one of the better or top three defensively at 1st. The Bone was on the radio the other day talking about Smoak's ability at first and believes he is a great defensive player but its time for his bat to equal out his ability.......


I'm not cashing the season in yet, lot of games left and teams do go cold and hot, besides Cezero is waiting in the wings for the M's to crap out to throw it back in my face for telling him it ain't over yet!

I would definitely take his defense over most guys in the league. The one thing I have admired about Smoak is he never lets his hitting problems carry over into the field. Unfortunately for him he plays a position where hitting production is a necessity. Probably unfairly the fact that he was the center piece of the Lee trade gave us higher expectations then we should have had. If he can figure out a way to hit .240-.250 with 20 homers, I will gladly take it. It just seems like he has never figured out how to handle a breaking ball with any consistency which is way my faith in him after 4 years is so low.

 

[mcnabb7542]

It's starting to remind me of the Brendan Ryan experiment, although his bat was far worse by the time he left. His defense was so good that it kind of formed wool over the eyes in the beginning, but over time the D wasn't enough to keep him in the game. Smoak does have a little better bat going for him, but before long his defense won't be enough.

That's a "thumbs up" for a pretty damn good defense of this situation....

 

[mcnabb7542]

I would definitely take his defense over most guys in the league. The one thing I have admired about Smoak is he never lets his hitting problems carry over into the field. Unfortunately for him he plays a position where hitting production is a necessity. Probably unfairly the fact that he was the center piece of the Lee trade gave us higher expectations then we should have had. If he can figure out a way to hit .240-.250 with 20 homers, I will gladly take it. It just seems like he has never figured out how to handle a breaking ball with any consistency which is way my faith in him after 4 years is so low.

100% agreed, if he can stay healthy, and like you said get close to .260, then you stay with it, cause deep down I'm looking at every draft looking for better 1st basemen, (some one that can hit)...

Not to cloud the situation, Tino Martinez started here, the kid drove Lou up the wall cause he chased breaking balls like there was no tomorrow, they let him walk, (I'm not saying Smoak is Martinez) but things worked out for Martinez, so why not if Justin can stay healthy, and get hits keep running him out there until you find the future? It beat's over paying some high priced FA that hits better then playing defense.....

One more question, at this stage of Smoak's career, do you have him stop being a switch hitter? I know there a premium with match up's, but if you take Smoak's stronger side and can focus on one stance, does it make him better?????

 

[johnfree63]

I really don't get the Mariners fan base and their need to stick up for and rally behind Smoak. He's a bust and they need to get a replacement. Running Smoak out there only hurts the team. His defense will never make up for his offense.

 

[wazzu31]

There is a huge problem with them adding anyone, they don't have anyone to trade to receive a bat that can help the lineup.

 

[seahawksfan234]

I hate to disagree with you McNabb, but bringing Smoak back will do little to nothing for the Mariners. His offensive stats are worse than they were last year, and despite praise for his defense Smoak is still carrying a -0.6 dWAR. Hypothetically speaking, even if Justin Smoak were the best defensive 1B in MLB, it would still do little good as 1B is one of the least important defensive positions on the field.

Smoak is not much of an upgrade over whatever other subpar player the Mariners throw in at 1B. Smoak is one of the worst starting 1B in MLB and although he may be better than Logan Morrison, it is like replacing dog shit with human shit, you may think one smells better than the other but it is still shit.

 

[Destroydacre]

I'm not saying my patients with Smoak are still there, there not, I'm ready for him to take it to the next level. I also do believe he is one of the better or top three defensively at 1st. The Bone was on the radio the other day talking about Smoak's ability at first and believes he is a great defensive player but its time for his bat to equal out his ability.......


I'm not cashing the season in yet, lot of games left and teams do go cold and hot, besides Cezero is waiting in the wings for the M's to crap out to throw it back in my face for telling him it ain't over yet!

Not gonna happen. Smoak is 27 years old. The time for his bat to equal his ability was 3 years ago. Now is when he's supposed to be entering his prime. The fact that Smoak is still on this team after all this time shows just how big an idiot Jack Z is and that he doesn't have a fucking clue what he's doing. IMO he's worse than Bavasi.

Here's an article 2 years ago that talks about how god awful Smoak is. 2 years later he's done nothing to warrant being on an MLB roster let alone an every day player.

 

[SeattleCoug]

it is like replacing dog shit with human shit, you may think one smells better than the other but it is still shit.