I think i have finally found the PERFECT rotiserrie categories

[MilkSpiller22]

I have debated with many about how the roto categories that we have now is not the perfect format... But I think I have figured out what is

6X6

Offense( BABIP, SO, BB, HR, SB, R)

PITCHING( BABIP, SO, BB, HR, H+S, QS)

 

[obxyankeefan]

LOL fit right into my comment on the OBP vs BA thread.

Total bases over Runs
Runs allowed over HR on the pitchers.
Other than those two I don't see anything I would have a problem with. And even the two I mentioned are not the worst ones in the world.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

LOL fit right into my comment on the OBP vs BA thread.

Total bases over Runs
Runs allowed over HR on the pitchers.
Other than those two I don't see anything I would have a problem with. And even the two I mentioned are not the worst ones in the world.

Do you have a reason why??


I can see a demand for more XBH to be included, actually wouldn't mind turning Runs into XBH%... Not a fan of Total bases...

But the reason i kept runs, is because i do want to keep TEAM stats in there a little... and runs is what baseball is all about... Also trying to stay away from having multiple categories giving an advantage to ONE type of player... I don't want power hitters to be better, i want better hitters to be better...

and there is no need for RA for pitchers... Look at the other categories, RA is already built in....

 

[obxyankeefan]

XBH% would go more towards a power hitter then TB. Most power hitters have a large amount of there hits be XB, so they are going to naturally have a XBH% close to their BA. TB lets doubles and triples be rewarded. Whereas Runs and RBIs are more team stats.
Now I do understand and can get behind wanting a team stat in the six.

RA is on the pitcher, even with the error behind him, the pitcher is the one that needs to gather himself in and limit the damage. HR by pitcher to me punishes a pitcher that pitches in a hitter friendly park while rewarding San Diego pitchers. As far as RA already being built in, I am missing it.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

XBH% would go more towards a power hitter then TB. Most power hitters have a large amount of there hits be XB, so they are going to naturally have a XBH% close to their BA. TB lets doubles and triples be rewarded. Whereas Runs and RBIs are more team stats.
Now I do understand and can get behind wanting a team stat in the six.

RA is on the pitcher, even with the error behind him, the pitcher is the one that needs to gather himself in and limit the damage. HR by pitcher to me punishes a pitcher that pitches in a hitter friendly park while rewarding San Diego pitchers. As far as RA already being built in, I am missing it.

definitely not directly... But QS, you can't give up more than 3 runs per game.

When including BABIP, HRs is kind of needed as well because HRs are not included in BABIP... neither are BBs and SO... so they kind of all work with each other while also being totally separate skills... But when you put them all together you have BABIP+ BB which will measure how many base runners, then HRs is the stat the number one way to produce runs. and then SOs are the best stat to show the contact and the ability for the opponent to move a runner up...

Now, i get that many of that is a stretch, and there is no Real way in my proposal that shows ERA... But indirectly, it should be very accurate...

 

[The Q]

Why is BABIP a stat?

That's a terrible stat for fantasy as it's mostly luck driven.

Some stats I like for leagues:

OBP
XBH or TB
HR
SB%
Runs

QS
K
WHIP
H+S
FIP/DIPs

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Why is BABIP a stat?

That's a terrible stat for fantasy as it's mostly luck driven.

Some stats I like for leagues:

OBP
XBH or TB
HR
SB%
Runs

QS
K
WHIP
H+S
FIP/DIPs

You are right that BABIP measures luck, but it is not luck driven... the luck part, you are comparing a players career BABIP to their season BABIP... it is not like someone with a higher BABIP than another is luckier than the other...

also, if you look at my proposal it is BABIP and then HR,BB,and SOs. the 3 stats that the BABIP ignores... But BABIP is the stat that i am most on the fence about having, as it is really hard to draft for AND i really don't like using advanced stats in fantasy... Just chose BABIP because i Like having every category be independent and i like how well BABIP works with SO, BB, HR.


As to your proposal... I hate SB%, the percent weakens the value of SB guys, because Quantity is irrelevant...

also, i don't like HR WITH XBH or TB, as HR is an XBH, and chances are the better you do in the HR category the better you do in the XBH or TB category... Like i said, i don't like too much overlap in categories( which is why I dislike the traditional HR+RBI+R together- it overvalues the power type player)

Not a fan of FIP at all... as again, it overlaps on WHIP and Ks... Plus it is an advanced stat, that many don't know(as is BABIP)...

As you can tell, i have put more thought in this subject than the average Joe.... I love this debate...

But what i like best about my proposal is the mirror image... If i was to change BABIP i would change it to BA, but i don't think it works as smoothly... and I like BA + BB MUCH more than OBP.... as getting a hit and getting a walk is a different skill and should be treated that way...

 

[The Q]

You are right that BABIP measures luck, but it is not luck driven... the luck part, you are comparing a players career BABIP to their season BABIP... it is not like someone with a higher BABIP than another is luckier than the other...

also, if you look at my proposal it is BABIP and then HR,BB,and SOs. the 3 stats that the BABIP ignores... But BABIP is the stat that i am most on the fence about having, as it is really hard to draft for AND i really don't like using advanced stats in fantasy... Just chose BABIP because i Like having every category be independent and i like how well BABIP works with SO, BB, HR.


As to your proposal... I hate SB%, the percent weakens the value of SB guys, because Quantity is irrelevant...

also, i don't like HR WITH XBH or TB, as HR is an XBH, and chances are the better you do in the HR category the better you do in the XBH or TB category... Like i said, i don't like too much overlap in categories( which is why I dislike the traditional HR+RBI+R together- it overvalues the power type player)

Not a fan of FIP at all... as again, it overlaps on WHIP and Ks... Plus it is an advanced stat, that many don't know(as is BABIP)...

As you can tell, i have put more thought in this subject than the average Joe.... I love this debate...

But what i like best about my proposal is the mirror image... If i was to change BABIP i would change it to BA, but i don't think it works as smoothly... and I like BA + BB MUCH more than OBP.... as getting a hit and getting a walk is a different skill and should be treated that way...

Most HBPs are going to be small enough it's not going to matter that much.

SB% is fantastic because efficiency absolutely matters. It's WHY teams are running less.

BABIP is very luck driven. It's why you see wild fluctuations from year to year.

having XBHs allows for doubles hitters like a Brian Roberts in his prime to compete with the big power hitters.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Most HBPs are going to be small enough it's not going to matter that much.

SB% is fantastic because efficiency absolutely matters. It's WHY teams are running less.

BABIP is very luck driven. It's why you see wild fluctuations from year to year.

having XBHs allows for doubles hitters like a Brian Roberts in his prime to compete with the big power hitters.

i agree the efficiency is great but with it you don't need to steal many bases as long as you are efficient in it... and Speedsters are already fantasy second, so why punish them and weaken their value more than already...

But i guess i would be ok with it if you did a split category with SB% and SB

If you are going to have XBH, then why have HRs?? again HR is an XBH, and although XBH allows for other hitters to compete with the big boys, it doesn't when you also Have HR as a category.... it is like having OBP and then BB...


And i understand BABIP measures luck, with the rest of those categories, it should act similar to BA...

But again, i can see that category being substituted for BA, i just think BABIP works better for the rest of the categories... even if it is not an easy stat to draft for or to predict in anyway...

Again, my ideal category set is for each category to work independently, while also strengthening the other categories...

 

[The Q]

i agree the efficiency is great but with it you don't need to steal many bases as long as you are efficient in it... and Speedsters are already fantasy second, so why punish them and weaken their value more than already...

But i guess i would be ok with it if you did a split category with SB% and SB

If you are going to have XBH, then why have HRs?? again HR is an XBH, and although XBH allows for other hitters to compete with the big boys, it doesn't when you also Have HR as a category.... it is like having OBP and then BB...


And i understand BABIP measures luck, but again, with the rest of those categories, it should act similar to BA...

But again, i can see that category being substituted for BA, i just think BABIP works better for the rest of the categories... even if it is not an easy stat to draft for or to predict in anyway...

BABIP for pitchers is like RBIs or Runs for hitters. Very team dependent.

 

[BigFin]

I keep it a basic 5 x 5, with AVG sometimes replaced with OPS.

And only one DH spot. As God intended it.

 

[The Q]

I keep it a basic 5 x 5, with AVG sometimes replaced with OPS.

And only one DH spot. As God intended it.

I love using OPS.

I had a H2H dynasty league, and we had 10x10. It was crazy how many stats we had.

 

[obxyankeefan]

I love using OPS.

I had a H2H dynasty league, and we had 10x10. It was crazy how many stats we had.

Sounds like the hockey league I am in 23 stats each week.

I have always found that you can come up with numerous offensive stats to use, but good pitching stats are hard to come by. Without getting into Sabermetrics I believe there are only 7 or 8 pitching stats that are good for fantasy.

 

[The Q]

Sounds like the hockey league I am in 23 stats each week.

I have always found that you can come up with numerous offensive stats to use, but good pitching stats are hard to come by. Without getting into Sabermetrics I believe there are only 7 or 8 pitching stats that are good for fantasy.

Yeah off my top of my head we had:

W
L
Sv
H
ERA
WHIP
K
IP
QS
CG

 

[obxyankeefan]

Yeah off my top of my head we had:

W
L
Sv
H
ERA
WHIP
K
IP
QS
CG

Wins has become more and more a team stat, but is still a good one. Losses I don't care much for. Saves and Holds should be one stat IMO. Hits is interesting. ERA is a good stat. WHIP is a good stat. It's are a good stat. IP is good for a points based league, but most Rotos use an IP limit so it limits the value of the stat. QS I am kinda wishy washy on, I understand both sides of the argument but lean towards liking it. CG is a good stat.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Yeah off my top of my head we had:

W
L
Sv
H
ERA
WHIP
K
IP
QS
CG

does having more than 6X6 lose the integrity of a rotisserie??? at that point, isn't it better just to do a points league???

 

[TKOSpikes]

I get where you're going with BABIP, but like your mentioned, you can't draft for it (not that it would actually effect a draft that much, but still). You're trying to individualize each category. That makes sense, but not at the expense of actual stats being replaced by a theoretical luck driven number.

Still, I see where you're going with it. For hitters, I could argue less than I could for pitchers. Wouldn't SIERRA be the equivalent? The same problems occur, however, as these numbers are more projections of could be scenarios.


I don't see why more categories isn't the answer. 5x5 isn't something written in stone.

 

[TKOSpikes]

does having more than 6X6 lose the integrity of a rotisserie??? at that point, isn't it better just to do a points league???

points leagues are always better!

but, no, I don't think more than 6x6 loses anything

 

[TKOSpikes]

8x8....

HR, RBI, SB, R, AVG, BB, 2B, K (3B tie breaker)
K, ERA, WHIP, S, H, QS, W, L

 

[MilkSpiller22]

8x8....

HR, RBI, SB, R, AVG, BB, 2B, K (3B tie breaker)
K, ERA, WHIP, S, H, QS, W, L

i am fine with your offense, but HATE your pitching categories...

with your proposal i think it works much better 7X7, with S+H instead of Saves and holds and NO RBI...

But even that i don't love... not a fan of QS and WINS being a category... Have no problem with losses

But if i was doing a 7X7 i think the best would be:

HR, 2B+3B, SB, BB, K, R, BA(BIP)
K,BB,Hits,QS,HRs, IP, S+H

IP only works as a category if there is no league minimums or maximums...
and couldn't think of another one...